Thanks for the tips sampsa. So do I just keep my warriors instead my borders and not bother to scout Shaka's land? As for the workers, I just always thought it was important to start getting cottages up asap. Not so much because I saw that anywhere, but in the past I've had issues with not having enough gold. So I try to get them build early. But in this case, when would you say it's a good idea to start making them? I'm planning to play another 10-15 turns tonight. I'm thinking until at least turn 70.
[BTS] Going for 1st prince win
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I wouldn't waste time on scouting AI lands really. You can do it later with a 2-mover when thinking about who to attack. It's best to keep your warriors a bit outside of your borders to prevent barbs from spawning and entering your territory.
I really like cottages (grass/floodplain/riverside, otoh non-riverside plains cottages are pretty bad...), but improving food and getting the granary up are way more important things. After that it's the time for stuff like connecting cities and building cottages.
I'm on turn 66 now. I stopped here because I'm not sure what I should have my workers do, and whether or not I should continue building warriors and/or axemen. I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. Sampsa, you're saying I should have my workers improve food, chop, then after that build cottages? What about mines? I also marked where I think the 4th city would be. Would that be the right spot or am I off? And should I build my 5th city after that or wait a bit? Lastly, with all of these warriors I have right now, I'm guessing I would upgrade all of them with gold at some point? If so I'm curious how I would make that happen, because I would need a lot of gold. Besides that anything else that stands out to you guys?
Spoiler :
Another thing I almost forgot, what about food shortages? Is that something I should be worried about this early? In the past I usually add up all the squares in the BFC, after border pop, and build farms if I have a shortage. Is there maybe a better approach to take instead? I've read this in the war academy not too long ago so I just went with it. That said, it seems like Osaka and Tokyo are gonna have shortages at some point? Unless I'm missing something.
Well, there is lots and lots of room for improvement. Expansion for T66 is very slow and I think you should have at least 5 cities by now. You should not build warriors to fortify them in your cities! One warrior for 
in each city, rest should be spread OUTSIDE of your borders to spawn bust. You should maybe have like six total now, rest is not of much use. These units you should never upgrade, no. It doesn't matter what type of unit you have in each city, they will keep the city as happy as warriors than as riflemen.
I've already torn apart your unit management and worker management... Now it's time for city management. You should not slow build settlers/workers after you've invested into granary! That granary does NOTHING when you are stagnating. However, when you are fluctuating in size (growing, whipping, growing back) that granary cuts the 
-bar in half. That is insanely powerful. So if you want a settler, you should grow the city to size 6, put one turn into a settler, whip. Build barracks if you have nothing better to build. Put failgold into Stonehenge. Now that you have writing, start putting 
into a library.
Your 2nd and 3rd cities don't benefit from a monument. All your strong tiles are on the 1st ring, as they should be. Put into a library rather, it's a building that is very useful until the end of the game. Mines are actually not very good improvements and I build barely any. It's better to just grow to work a cottage (or even a lake). Oh btw you are not working your cottages in the capital...
As long as you are making some +5 per turn you should not build many farms, just go with cottages. If you are making less than +5, then you are founding bad cities that have no strong -resources. Improve food, cottage all green tiles, ignore plains, don't build many mines will take you through levels until immortal.
in each city, rest should be spread OUTSIDE of your borders to spawn bust. You should maybe have like six total now, rest is not of much use. These units you should never upgrade, no. It doesn't matter what type of unit you have in each city, they will keep the city as happy as warriors than as riflemen.I've already torn apart your unit management and worker management... Now it's time for city management.
You should not slow build settlers/workers after you've invested into granary! That granary does NOTHING when you are stagnating. However, when you are fluctuating in size (growing, whipping, growing back) that granary cuts the -bar in half. That is insanely powerful. So if you want a settler, you should grow the city to size 6, put one turn into a settler, whip. Build barracks if you have nothing better to build. Put failgold into Stonehenge. Now that you have writing, start putting into a library.Your 2nd and 3rd cities don't benefit from a monument. All your strong tiles are on the 1st ring, as they should be.
Put into a library rather, it's a building that is very useful until the end of the game. Mines are actually not very good improvements and I build barely any. It's better to just grow to work a cottage (or even a lake). Oh btw you are not working your cottages in the capital...Stop reading war academy. Most of the stuff there was written over 10 years ago when many of the mechanics of the game were barely understood. Read this: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/beginner-help-the-basics.648469/. Despite the name it goes way beyond basics. It's more like "basics for approaching deity level".
As long as you are making some +5
per turn you should not build many farms, just go with cottages. If you are making less than +5, then you are founding bad cities that have no strong -resources. Improve food, cottage all green tiles, ignore plains, don't build many mines will take you through levels until immortal.I'm on turn 75 now. I'm trying to be more thoughtful about what I'm having my workers do, but I'm still having some trouble making decisions. I built libraries in Osaka and Tokyo, and I have my 4th city up and going. I'll also be honest, I'm not too sure what you meant in terms of placing my warriors in spots where they can spawn bust. So I put them outside my borders where tiles will light up and spot barbs. Was this the right idea or am I still getting it wrong? Also what do you guys think in general? I did mark where I think my 5th city should go, but if there's a better spot let me know. Once I have math, what should I research next? I was thinking of doing currency or alphabet, that's usually what I go with.
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Just a couple of notes here since sampsa has had you well covered.
Seems you missed some of the early points I made so I will recap though for the most part this is now obsolete info...yet the concepts should be learned and applied.
First off the spawn busting, the guys in the N and W are okay, though the dude due W could move further W 2 tiles. However, I'd really have liked to have seen a guy down S at 1E from the horses early - then can move 1S of that spot after Kyoto pops borders (as it is now in your pics). Basically locks down this area from barbs on your backside. Keep in mind that as you move of levels that area is going to spawn an archer or two and annoy or a barb city spawns and ruins a good city.
Next, obviously with easy access to stone Mids became a "thought". As I early explains, I like the idea of saving forests near Osaka for chopping mids after Maths. Those forests are now long chopped. Granted, if Mids was not a "thought" then chop those away for workers/settlers.
I really like the double fish city due S of Kyoto and think it needs to be settle asap with worker in tow. Chop a monument while city works forest and it should complete quickly.
I'm not looking at the save but I assume Kyoto has a library. If not, it should. If it does, you should be running 2 scientists there. (Maybe your are cause you do have 7bpts at 0% research so must be).
But fail golding wonders is more of a temporary action when a city has nothing better to build. I usually put in a turn on a bonus wonder after completion of a build to take the little OF too. But you are still in expansion mode and should be building settlers.
Do not build walls. Total waste of hammers
Seems you missed some of the early points I made so I will recap though for the most part this is now obsolete info...yet the concepts should be learned and applied.
First off the spawn busting, the guys in the N and W are okay, though the dude due W could move further W 2 tiles. However, I'd really have liked to have seen a guy down S at 1E from the horses early - then can move 1S of that spot after Kyoto pops borders (as it is now in your pics). Basically locks down this area from barbs on your backside. Keep in mind that as you move of levels that area is going to spawn an archer or two and annoy or a barb city spawns and ruins a good city.
Next, obviously with easy access to stone Mids became a "thought". As I early explains, I like the idea of saving forests near Osaka for chopping mids after Maths. Those forests are now long chopped. Granted, if Mids was not a "thought" then chop those away for workers/settlers.
I really like the double fish city due S of Kyoto and think it needs to be settle asap with worker in tow. Chop a monument while city works forest and it should complete quickly.
I'm not looking at the save but I assume Kyoto has a library. If not, it should. If it does, you should be running 2 scientists there. (Maybe your are cause you do have 7bpts at 0% research so must be).
But fail golding wonders is more of a temporary action when a city has nothing better to build. I usually put in a turn on a bonus wonder after completion of a build to take the little OF too. But you are still in expansion mode and should be building settlers.
Do not build walls. Total waste of hammers
I played the next 10 turns, here's where I am now. Concerning the forests, I must've misunderstood what you said earlier. I thought you meant you wanted me to save the forests in Kyoto for mids. I'm definitely not ignoring any advice on purpose. I did settle my 5th city, I'm hoping it was in the right spot? As for techs, I figured I'd go alphabet here so I can have tech trading available. I forgot to ask before, but is building research generally a good idea? I did get the failed gold from GW. I'm not really sure what to go for after alphabet though. Another thing, should all of my cities have barracks and libraries? And to answer your question, I had a library in Tokyo. I did build one in Kyoto in the last 10 turns.
Spoiler :
Building research is ok if you've built the necessary infra (Granary, Library) and don't need units for rushing. But building wealth is better or if you have Stone or Marble build wonders for failgold as you did. Since building wealth creates gold that lets you raise your slider and early in the game you have +25% science from libraries so building wealth brings you more benefit than building research which doesn't go through the modifiers from libraries. Note that to build wealth you need Currency.
I'm on turn 101 now. I realize now I should've settled kagoshima 1W so I can get access to horse in my BFC, and build momument first and chop as lymond suggested. There are still some things I'm not fully understanding though.
1) Should I not build any military units unless I'm at war? And when I do war, or in general, how many units am I suppose to have on my border and coastal cities?
2) As far as plain tiles go, I understand I should ignore them and not build anything. But are you saying I shouldn't build mines in general, or just not on plain hills?
3) I get that I shouldn't build roads in the beginning as to not waste turns, except to connect cities, but should I build them to connect resources?
4) Continuing on point 2, when it comes to whipping, do I whip in cities that have citizens on plain/unimproved tiles, or whip in every city as needed?
5) Dankok8, I just want to make sure I understand right. Are you saying I should build wealth instead of research, all the time? In my screenshot I split them among my cities, but I just got currency on my last turn.
6) Am I suppose to build barracks AND libraries in every city?
I know it came up already that I should disregard war academy, so I'm wondering something else. What about the concept of specializing cities? A lot of questions, I know, but at this point I want to get as much information as possible before I play another set of turns.
1) Should I not build any military units unless I'm at war? And when I do war, or in general, how many units am I suppose to have on my border and coastal cities?
2) As far as plain tiles go, I understand I should ignore them and not build anything. But are you saying I shouldn't build mines in general, or just not on plain hills?
3) I get that I shouldn't build roads in the beginning as to not waste turns, except to connect cities, but should I build them to connect resources?
4) Continuing on point 2, when it comes to whipping, do I whip in cities that have citizens on plain/unimproved tiles, or whip in every city as needed?
5) Dankok8, I just want to make sure I understand right. Are you saying I should build wealth instead of research, all the time? In my screenshot I split them among my cities, but I just got currency on my last turn.
6) Am I suppose to build barracks AND libraries in every city?
I know it came up already that I should disregard war academy, so I'm wondering something else. What about the concept of specializing cities? A lot of questions, I know, but at this point I want to get as much information as possible before I play another set of turns.
Spoiler :
Good questions.
comes from HR - then I have more in several cities. Warriors are best as they are the cheapest. During war, you probably know where the AI stack is coming from so often I'll defend that one city. There is no point in massing units in cities that the AI won't target.
-multiplier buildings (library) it's better to have the -slider at 100% for as long as possible.
is a big investment.
One has to think where do the 
s come from though. For me, usually they are coming from multiple cities during the first golden age. Having a single -farm is a lot weaker most of the time.
In general, no. One warrior per city is what I usually have, unless my
comes from HR - then I have more in several cities. Warriors are best as they are the cheapest. During war, you probably know where the AI stack is coming from so often I'll defend that one city. There is no point in massing units in cities that the AI won't target.I don't like even green mines very much, though they are not hopelessly bad. I'd say generally ignore plains and generally ignore green hills. There is a place for a plains riverside cottage or a grass mine here and there though.
If connecting that resource is useful. When available, you should trade resources with the AI.
Especially if the city is working on weak tiles, it's good to whip a settler/worker. If a city is working nice tiles and there is no urgent need for anything, don't whip. I always try to keep my cities fluctuating between certain sizes, depending on the tiles available. So say the city has 3 tiles I want to be working full time, I aim to 2-pop whip every time I reach size 5 (i.e. 5->3 cycles).
This also depends a bit, but in general building wealth is better. Since you mostly should have
-multiplier buildings (library) it's better to have the -slider at 100% for as long as possible.Do you need them? In my games, eventually most cities will have barracks (as I seem to always win via military). Libraries... depends a lot more. 90
is a big investment.I don't think the concept of city specialization should be taken very literally. So for me, every city is more or less a hybrid. This definitely doesn't mean that these cities build many types of buildings.
One has to think where do the s come from though. For me, usually they are coming from multiple cities during the first golden age. Having a single -farm is a lot weaker most of the time.Score should mostly be ignored. In the <F4> tech trade screen you can see what the AIs can research which gives you full knowledge on what techs they have.
5
is a very very strong tile so you should get it asap! If you feel you can't use all the
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Hey HD - great stuff from sampsa. I go further with just some general comments for now.
First of all, please keep in mind that this game is strictly for learning or at least should be treated as such. Therefore, it is the "process" by which you do things here and the discussions we have that matter, not so much the results.
With that said, there are many things to improve here. I encourage to wait for advice before playing as we seem to have moved quite far without some guidance and lost the plot so to speak. Sorry I was not around much recently.
A few points:
1) Kago should have been settled 1S to get that fish in first ring. I really like this city with the double fish, but you had the opportunity to get food in first ring and that should always be the priority. As well as improving said food. (I think earlier I misstated some guidance here as I was not looking in the game at the time and forgot where the fish were, so that is my fault
2) As Sampsa said the fish in Satsuma should be a priority, can't remember if forests near there but with improved Pigs you can 1pop a wb there at size 2
3) Speaking of Satsuma, I think I saw you roading the pig before improving. It is imperative that you improve the food first not road. I don't know if you are automating your workers or using go-to mode, but please stop that. I've tried to impress on you the importance of worker turns and worker management. Auto-workers are very bad. It's important that you manage your workers very closely and do the right things. It's actually one of the most important concepts in the game.
4) I'm not concerned about war here. AIs are far enough away and not impeding on your lands. Mansa is a great AI to have in the game if he is otherwise not causing you issues with expansion, so I don't like fighting him but rather befriending him.
5) Which leads me to Construction. I don't recommend that here or going to war for now. I want you to focus on empire management and expansion for now anyway. (It might be different if you were blocked in but you are not).
6) Rather I would like to have seen you expand and expand faster. 5 cities is simply not enough here.
7) Lastly, going back some I think I saw your workers doing a bunch of things like cottages every tile or whatever when there were important things to do. Don't do that. Cities are not even going to work those tiles for a long time.
Eventually all these things will come together and start to make sense for you. And we have yet to talk whipping stuff which is very important..we will get to that.
I think thought that there are some good things here and you are learning. There is plenty more to learn and you can take some stuff from the "process" of this game.
My recommendation now is to start a new game
First of all, please keep in mind that this game is strictly for learning or at least should be treated as such. Therefore, it is the "process" by which you do things here and the discussions we have that matter, not so much the results.
With that said, there are many things to improve here. I encourage to wait for advice before playing as we seem to have moved quite far without some guidance and lost the plot so to speak. Sorry I was not around much recently.
A few points:
1) Kago should have been settled 1S to get that fish in first ring. I really like this city with the double fish, but you had the opportunity to get food in first ring and that should always be the priority. As well as improving said food. (I think earlier I misstated some guidance here as I was not looking in the game at the time and forgot where the fish were, so that is my fault
2) As Sampsa said the fish in Satsuma should be a priority, can't remember if forests near there but with improved Pigs you can 1pop a wb there at size 2
3) Speaking of Satsuma, I think I saw you roading the pig before improving. It is imperative that you improve the food first not road. I don't know if you are automating your workers or using go-to mode, but please stop that. I've tried to impress on you the importance of worker turns and worker management. Auto-workers are very bad. It's important that you manage your workers very closely and do the right things. It's actually one of the most important concepts in the game.
4) I'm not concerned about war here. AIs are far enough away and not impeding on your lands. Mansa is a great AI to have in the game if he is otherwise not causing you issues with expansion, so I don't like fighting him but rather befriending him.
5) Which leads me to Construction. I don't recommend that here or going to war for now. I want you to focus on empire management and expansion for now anyway. (It might be different if you were blocked in but you are not).
6) Rather I would like to have seen you expand and expand faster. 5 cities is simply not enough here.
7) Lastly, going back some I think I saw your workers doing a bunch of things like cottages every tile or whatever when there were important things to do. Don't do that. Cities are not even going to work those tiles for a long time.
Eventually all these things will come together and start to make sense for you. And we have yet to talk whipping stuff which is very important..we will get to that.
I think thought that there are some good things here and you are learning. There is plenty more to learn and you can take some stuff from the "process" of this game.
My recommendation now is to start a new game
Sampsa and Lymond, thank you guys for all the advice so far. I know it's a lot to cover, so I really appreciate it. I'm trying to understand things as best I can. When it comes to building roads before improving the food, I just always figured I'm gonna need a road there anyway so may as well build it on the way. I'll get into the habit of improving the food first though. As for everything else that was said, I'll really try to make a conscious effort to avoid the same pitfalls in the future. Part of the issue is that up until now, I always relied on having stonehenge, so I was never really worried about food and other resources being outside the first circle. But for mines, I'm still a little confused. Should I wait to build them after cottages and other resources, as in build them last, or not build them at all? I'll admit I'm sure trying to get use to the idea that food = hammer. But I guess I sometimes think I don't know what else they should be doing this turn, as I overlook something they should be doing. I also feel like I tend to want to play "fast", or faster, without really thinking through my turns and whether what I'm doing makes sense.
I did decide to start another game, with the goal of really focusing on making smart decisions, and really understanding the advice you guys give me. Lymond, you mentioned you wanted me to focus more on empire management. In that case should I maybe pick a peacemonger, or does it not matter? I started another game and got Sitting Bull, Arid climate this time if that matters at all. I ask that because I'm kinda curious if the climate of the map matters, and if some favor the AI or not. When I first played this game I use to play cold maps a lot.
I did decide to start another game, with the goal of really focusing on making smart decisions, and really understanding the advice you guys give me. Lymond, you mentioned you wanted me to focus more on empire management. In that case should I maybe pick a peacemonger, or does it not matter? I started another game and got Sitting Bull, Arid climate this time if that matters at all. I ask that because I'm kinda curious if the climate of the map matters, and if some favor the AI or not. When I first played this game I use to play cold maps a lot.
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Leader does not matter. I never think of climates. Please roll a start with a good visible food resource (wet corn, pigs or multiple decent food) for the purpose of learning at least. Sorry, plains cow starts are simply the worst and though there could more food there could be none and going through that process here is a waste of everyone's time and yours.
You are always improve the good tiles first. Roads are way way way down the list of importance. Only thing I may like to do is get trade network up if not automatic.
However, one thing of not is making us of worker "half-moves" to partially improve tiles. For instance, say worker needs to move from tile A to tile C (assuming flat/no forest,jungle hills). A worker can move from A to C as it has to move but can take no action. However, if worker moves to tile B it can partly lay a road (or something else like a cottage if the tile is worthy). So applies to 3 tile moves to dead stops. like moving from tile A to D where D is forest or hill. Move to B, part improve, then move to D. You can do a lot with this little trick.
But the most important thing to take from this is that worker turns are sooooooooooooooooooo important..every one of them. Worker management is one of the absolute key things in the game, and worker is THE most important unit in the game. India's fast worker? Best unit in the game next to the silly Incan Quechas.
Please do not undervalue your workers and the decision making there.
Mines (normal not resources) are more about starting to think about city size and what your cities need to do. Some mines are okay and you may even build one early if nothing better to do, but food, chops, and cottages more important. And cities will be small anyway with some like say Kyoto on last game running scientists.
You are always improve the good tiles first. Roads are way way way down the list of importance. Only thing I may like to do is get trade network up if not automatic.
However, one thing of not is making us of worker "half-moves" to partially improve tiles. For instance, say worker needs to move from tile A to tile C (assuming flat/no forest,jungle hills). A worker can move from A to C as it has to move but can take no action. However, if worker moves to tile B it can partly lay a road (or something else like a cottage if the tile is worthy). So applies to 3 tile moves to dead stops. like moving from tile A to D where D is forest or hill. Move to B, part improve, then move to D. You can do a lot with this little trick.
But the most important thing to take from this is that worker turns are sooooooooooooooooooo important..every one of them. Worker management is one of the absolute key things in the game, and worker is THE most important unit in the game. India's fast worker? Best unit in the game next to the silly Incan Quechas.
Please do not undervalue your workers and the decision making there.
Mines (normal not resources) are more about starting to think about city size and what your cities need to do. Some mines are okay and you may even build one early if nothing better to do, but food, chops, and cottages more important. And cities will be small anyway with some like say Kyoto on last game running scientists.
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Another point on Leaders in general. There are certainly better leaders than other in terms of some powerful traits, but that stuff is really irrelevant to you and non-essential to improving your game at this stage. Things like worker management, expansion, economy and whipping are what's going to take you to the next level. Making use of certain traits is more advanced stuff for later.
My preferred leaders for guys learning is either Toku or Washington. Toku traits are complete suck and his uniques are late and inconsequential. Wash on the other hand has nice traits that are basically passive for the most part without one really having to think about them. And his uniques are late and inconsequential as well.
Point is that you are not thinking about those things right now but rather the blue collar nuts and bolts stuff
My preferred leaders for guys learning is either Toku or Washington. Toku traits are complete suck and his uniques are late and inconsequential. Wash on the other hand has nice traits that are basically passive for the most part without one really having to think about them. And his uniques are late and inconsequential as well.
Point is that you are not thinking about those things right now but rather the blue collar nuts and bolts stuff
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Thanks for the heads up on worker units. I always thought it was military units that were the most important. I'd have to practice that trick you mentioned to get the hang of it. Anyway, it took a few tries but I think I have a good start spot now. Let me know if it's not. For here, I was thinking of SIP, since I have two food I can work with AH, then TW->Mining->BW? Meanwhile I move the warrior to the PH in the NW and circle around assuming there isn't any jungle in that area. As for units I was thinking worker->warrior to start.
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