The thing that is most annoying about this GOTM is the onslaught of Swordsmen that the Germans and Americans are sending at me SOOOOOOO early in the game--and our nearest Iron is a LOOONG ways away! How did you guys deal with this? Germany hates me, and so do the Barbarians!!! ACK! Where is that Iron?!!
GOTM #10 *Spoilers* Thread
- Thread starter FACEMAN
- Start date
First GOTM and my results certainly aren't going to wow any crowds. I started the game by finding the Aztec and nearly lost it there. For whatever reason I decided to try and rush kill'em (I got a few warriors from the Goodie Huts.) The last Aztec in Technoosidksa (however it is spelled) had one hit left and I had nothing left to throw at him. Peace was pretty cheap to buy since he had nothing left but the barbarains ripped me to shreds afterwards.
After quite sometime I rebuilt but sadly the Russians managed to plant a city on the inland sea. I ignored it at the time since it was smack dab in the middle of a desert but imagine my surprise when saltpeeter showed up right next door to it. Thus began the first Franco-Russian War. A couple of Russian cities later and I took some tech from them for peace. Then I built up a force and marched through Catherine's lands. I got the first of my three Leaders and rushed the Forbidden Palace into Moscow. Then my nightmares began. I signed an MPP with Germany. My reasoning at the time was that Germany looked damn tough (they had beat the stuffing out of the Americans in an early war) but soon I was at war with America, England and the Iroquois. This war took hundreds of years and netted me Atlanta (crappy city) and some Aztec city that the Iroquois had taken from Monty. I decided on peace because it seemed like I was on the same unit tech as everybody else so Cavalry weren't going to be able to take Rifleman defended cities easily. The damn German MPP kept dragging me into a war and now they sucked (American and English had kicked them around.) I ended up at war with the Aztec of all people. I finally got a chance to take Technoudijfkl but I wasn't paying attention and it culture flipped taking a small army of mine with it. STUPID STUPID STUPID.
Anyway I am now tech racing the English for the Tank. My game is coming up on 1800 AD and I am just now reaching the top of the points and tech ladder. My Civ gaming skills have a long way to go but I am learning quite a bit from this site.
After quite sometime I rebuilt but sadly the Russians managed to plant a city on the inland sea. I ignored it at the time since it was smack dab in the middle of a desert but imagine my surprise when saltpeeter showed up right next door to it. Thus began the first Franco-Russian War. A couple of Russian cities later and I took some tech from them for peace. Then I built up a force and marched through Catherine's lands. I got the first of my three Leaders and rushed the Forbidden Palace into Moscow. Then my nightmares began. I signed an MPP with Germany. My reasoning at the time was that Germany looked damn tough (they had beat the stuffing out of the Americans in an early war) but soon I was at war with America, England and the Iroquois. This war took hundreds of years and netted me Atlanta (crappy city) and some Aztec city that the Iroquois had taken from Monty. I decided on peace because it seemed like I was on the same unit tech as everybody else so Cavalry weren't going to be able to take Rifleman defended cities easily. The damn German MPP kept dragging me into a war and now they sucked (American and English had kicked them around.) I ended up at war with the Aztec of all people. I finally got a chance to take Technoudijfkl but I wasn't paying attention and it culture flipped taking a small army of mine with it. STUPID STUPID STUPID.
Anyway I am now tech racing the English for the Tank. My game is coming up on 1800 AD and I am just now reaching the top of the points and tech ladder. My Civ gaming skills have a long way to go but I am learning quite a bit from this site.
MadScot
Brandy's back!
What is it with GOTM, WW and me??????
Once again, I find myself in massive WW within a couple of turns of starting a war.
This time I attacked the Iroquois, in 1772. By 1776, despite my taking 6 or 7 cities by then, I had WW in many cities, including Orleans! It had had 12 happy people in it before that.
What frustrates the hell out of me is that there is no FEEDBACK. If a spearman kills my tank, well, I know the odds, the combat model is openly described, and if I have bad luck so be it. I know not to attack them in mountains behind rivers, and if I do anyway and my tank dies, it's my own stupid fault.
But with war weariness, I have no idea what I am doing wrong. I get attacked, I suffer WW. I attack someone I get WW. I fully expect to suffer WW while at peace now. (It would make about as much sense)
Back on-topic and off-rant...
I was forced to trade flight to England for communism and go into anarchy. Since I'm going to end up a commie, I might just go for all-out war now. I'll have computers in a few turns (when I get out of anarchy) - let the death and destruction rain down.
I seem to be the only one with tanks right now. So the iroquois aren't going to last long. They are down to 5 cities now, and the last one was defended by pikemen!
Maybe my citizens are weary of picking pikeman parts out of my tank tracks?
Once again, I find myself in massive WW within a couple of turns of starting a war.
This time I attacked the Iroquois, in 1772. By 1776, despite my taking 6 or 7 cities by then, I had WW in many cities, including Orleans! It had had 12 happy people in it before that.
What frustrates the hell out of me is that there is no FEEDBACK. If a spearman kills my tank, well, I know the odds, the combat model is openly described, and if I have bad luck so be it. I know not to attack them in mountains behind rivers, and if I do anyway and my tank dies, it's my own stupid fault.
But with war weariness, I have no idea what I am doing wrong. I get attacked, I suffer WW. I attack someone I get WW. I fully expect to suffer WW while at peace now. (It would make about as much sense)
Back on-topic and off-rant...
I was forced to trade flight to England for communism and go into anarchy. Since I'm going to end up a commie, I might just go for all-out war now. I'll have computers in a few turns (when I get out of anarchy) - let the death and destruction rain down.
I seem to be the only one with tanks right now. So the iroquois aren't going to last long. They are down to 5 cities now, and the last one was defended by pikemen!
Maybe my citizens are weary of picking pikeman parts out of my tank tracks?Update:
So I hurt the Americans enough so that they would leave me alone for awhile. I researched and built factories and coal plants in all my cities. I stayed one tech ahead of everyone and sold it immediately to everyone. I was headed straight to Motorized Transportation. I used a strategy that had worked in another game. I timed the completion of the Theory of Evolution for when I was two techs away from tanks. TOE gave me the techs and a solid tech lead. I changed all my cities to tank production, turned off my research, pumped up the luxury rate and went to war. I brutalized the AI who had stopped researching and never got tanks. It had Flight so I encountered many bombers as I screamed across the continent. It was fun watching the bombers destroy the rail network in the battle zone only to watch as my workers completely rebuild it every turn. Had to be demoralizing.
So I have over 200 tanks now. I left a few enemy cities uncaptured so I guess I'm suppose to milk this thing now. I think I would rather spend my time reloading from before the war and kicking ass all over again. What fun!
I was inspired by Sulla to re-do (not for submission of course) the GOTM using the OCC approach. I have to tell you, I don't know how he does it!
I was constantly ravaged by barbarians for 20 or 30 turns in the beginning! This was truly devastating. At one point, I was attacked by over 40 horsemen at one time! I was constantly way behind in tech, and was unable to get any great wonders beyond the ancient age, also the world was generally peaceful (so tech moved fast, no stragglers). Most of the time, if I got over 20 gold, someone would demand it. It took careful planning just to be able to establish embassies! Finally towards the end, war caused the Germans, Aztecs, and Romans to be extinguished.
I have survived, and my points are an impressive 133, but I have no chance to reach 20K culture before 2050, I am at 12K in 2004 with 37 points per turn in my city. On a bright spot an Aztec city flipped to me, so I know the sad feeling of refusing her overtures.
I was constantly ravaged by barbarians for 20 or 30 turns in the beginning! This was truly devastating. At one point, I was attacked by over 40 horsemen at one time! I was constantly way behind in tech, and was unable to get any great wonders beyond the ancient age, also the world was generally peaceful (so tech moved fast, no stragglers). Most of the time, if I got over 20 gold, someone would demand it. It took careful planning just to be able to establish embassies! Finally towards the end, war caused the Germans, Aztecs, and Romans to be extinguished.
I have survived, and my points are an impressive 133, but I have no chance to reach 20K culture before 2050, I am at 12K in 2004 with 37 points per turn in my city. On a bright spot an Aztec city flipped to me, so I know the sad feeling of refusing her overtures.
Hurricane
Sleeping Dragon
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2001
- Messages
- 1,197
Finished my game. I last attacked the Americans, and finally got a leader! With no wonders left to build, and only 12 rounds left of the FP he didn´t make much of a difference, but at least I got one. I switched to a marketplace in the FP city and built the FP in a neighboring city instead.
The Americans got Nationalism just after that, so I made peace. I was close to somination, so I rushed some temples and triggered it in 1280 AD, 4260 points.
Nice game overall. Bit easy, though. The screenshot shows my first leader, some data from the last round and a small histograph.
The Americans got Nationalism just after that, so I made peace. I was close to somination, so I rushed some temples and triggered it in 1280 AD, 4260 points.
Nice game overall. Bit easy, though. The screenshot shows my first leader, some data from the last round and a small histograph.
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I've just replayed GOTM10 with a OCC strategy that owed a huge debt to Sulla. Won by 20k culture in 2014 with a score of 274. Bet no-one can get under that!
Whole game only took 4 hours.
Whole game only took 4 hours.
Cartouche Bee
Appropriations Consultant
Well it's 1050AD and the Germans are the only one left, with 1 tundra city north of Paris. (Nice and close, so I can keep an eye on them.) I will have the ability to start railroading in 2 turns but I want to get to democracy to speed up my railroad construction. When I switch governments it will probably take about 8 turns of anarchy (I'm not sure but I know it will be longer than I want). I still need to discovery democracy but I have a plan to essentially save two turns of anarchy, by over researching democracy for 2 turns and then starting my switch of governments I will still be able to discover democracy in 4 turns total, even though while in anarchy my research will be next to zilch. Now I will still be in anarchy for a long time but at least two of those turns will still count toward my research goal of 1 tech every 4 turns, until at least Ecology.
CB
CB
Interesting observation while relocating my Palace.
Placing the Palace and the forbidden palace in the right location is a major factor on your production capabilities. In the current GOTM I did not get a leader early in the game so I built my forbidden palace near my capital in Paris. This helped out in reducing my corruption, but it was not the best location for my needs. I ended up getting a leader later on, but I used the first two for wonders I wanted (Sun Tzu and Copernicus Observatory). Finally in about 1250 I got another leader and built a new Palace in Tlateloco (located on what was the Aztec/Russia border). The immediate difference in corruption was amazing.
Before the Palace move my total shield production/shield waste was 190/423. After the move it was 275/346. (These values are 1 turn apart). My commerce /corruption before move was 559/1109; after the Palace move it was 732/909. This is an increase in production of 30% decrease of waste by 18% increase in commerce of 24% and corruption decrease of 18%. I got those gains simply from changing the location of my Palace. The other neat thing that it allows me to do is to build up a new area quicker. Paris and the surrounding cities are all fairly well developed by this time in the game so I dont need the production as much in that area. The new area my Palace is in needs all of the main city improvements (libraries, marketplaces, etc.) This allows me to get those without having to buy them now. I cant wait to see what happens when I switch to Democracy now.
Placing the Palace and the forbidden palace in the right location is a major factor on your production capabilities. In the current GOTM I did not get a leader early in the game so I built my forbidden palace near my capital in Paris. This helped out in reducing my corruption, but it was not the best location for my needs. I ended up getting a leader later on, but I used the first two for wonders I wanted (Sun Tzu and Copernicus Observatory). Finally in about 1250 I got another leader and built a new Palace in Tlateloco (located on what was the Aztec/Russia border). The immediate difference in corruption was amazing.
Before the Palace move my total shield production/shield waste was 190/423. After the move it was 275/346. (These values are 1 turn apart). My commerce /corruption before move was 559/1109; after the Palace move it was 732/909. This is an increase in production of 30% decrease of waste by 18% increase in commerce of 24% and corruption decrease of 18%. I got those gains simply from changing the location of my Palace. The other neat thing that it allows me to do is to build up a new area quicker. Paris and the surrounding cities are all fairly well developed by this time in the game so I dont need the production as much in that area. The new area my Palace is in needs all of the main city improvements (libraries, marketplaces, etc.) This allows me to get those without having to buy them now. I cant wait to see what happens when I switch to Democracy now.
Cartouche Bee
Appropriations Consultant
Hi Creepster,
For instance if I set my research rate to 30% and that allows me to research democracy in 4 turns, I will bump the rate up to 60%. This will allow me to produce enough beakers to research the item in 2 turns. I still have to wait 4 turns altogether to actually get the tech item but I can be in anarchy for the last 2 turns.
CB
For instance if I set my research rate to 30% and that allows me to research democracy in 4 turns, I will bump the rate up to 60%. This will allow me to produce enough beakers to research the item in 2 turns. I still have to wait 4 turns altogether to actually get the tech item but I can be in anarchy for the last 2 turns.
CB
CB,
OK that makes sense. Do you happen to have numbers to go along with how many beakers are required for certain techs? or can you tell me where I can find that out. I used to have that info for civ 2 but I have not been able to figure it out for civ 3 yet.
One of the things I still want to know is do extra beakers carry over to the next tech, with the 4 turn minimum still in place? If so then you are not really gaining by taking the extra money when there is only one turn left.
For example you have been researching Democracy at 90% and it takes a total of 4 turns to get it. When you are at 1 turn to go you adjust the slider down to 10% and still get the tech in 1 turn plus the extra cash. Do the extra beakers that you would have generated go to the next tech, so that if you had left it at 90% you would have made it easier to get the next tech, say steam power in 5 turns vs the 6 for adjusting the slider.
I am curious about this and if you don't know the answer I will experiment with this to see what I can find out. I want to generate a spreadsheet on the techs and try to nail down some numbers for the game in this area.
OK that makes sense. Do you happen to have numbers to go along with how many beakers are required for certain techs? or can you tell me where I can find that out. I used to have that info for civ 2 but I have not been able to figure it out for civ 3 yet.
One of the things I still want to know is do extra beakers carry over to the next tech, with the 4 turn minimum still in place? If so then you are not really gaining by taking the extra money when there is only one turn left.
For example you have been researching Democracy at 90% and it takes a total of 4 turns to get it. When you are at 1 turn to go you adjust the slider down to 10% and still get the tech in 1 turn plus the extra cash. Do the extra beakers that you would have generated go to the next tech, so that if you had left it at 90% you would have made it easier to get the next tech, say steam power in 5 turns vs the 6 for adjusting the slider.
I am curious about this and if you don't know the answer I will experiment with this to see what I can find out. I want to generate a spreadsheet on the techs and try to nail down some numbers for the game in this area.
Cartouche Bee
Appropriations Consultant
Creepster,
I can't answer your question about the number of beakers required off the top of my head but I know some people have researched that info. So you will probably save some time doing a search on the subject.
As far as I know the excess beakers do not carry over to the next tech, so adjusting your rate of research around is recommended to save commerce.
I can't answer your question about the number of beakers required off the top of my head but I know some people have researched that info. So you will probably save some time doing a search on the subject.
As far as I know the excess beakers do not carry over to the next tech, so adjusting your rate of research around is recommended to save commerce.
Someone tell me if it's against GOTM policy, but there's nothing about it on the webpage...what I do is when something has 1 turn to research it, I lower my science output to the lowest % I can with it still being researched in 1 turn. This is often 10% or 20% science, and the bonus that I get is AWESOME! This also minimizes the over-researching effect that seems to do nothing for you, and gives you a huge boost of gold, while keeping your research levels unaffected
Cartouche Bee
Appropriations Consultant
ButSam,
That is just good management!
That is just good management!
MadScot
Brandy's back!
Creepster & CB
I believe some research indicates that the cost for a tech is a function of many variables, including # of civs, the number you know, the number who know the tech, etc. (It was in a thread a few weeks ago I think)
That being the case, I can't see an easy spreadsheet method to summarise it
I believe some research indicates that the cost for a tech is a function of many variables, including # of civs, the number you know, the number who know the tech, etc. (It was in a thread a few weeks ago I think)
That being the case, I can't see an easy spreadsheet method to summarise it
Originally posted by ButSam
Someone tell me if it's against GOTM policy, but there's nothing about it on the webpage...what I do is when something has 1 turn to research it, I lower my science output to the lowest % I can with it still being researched in 1 turn. This is often 10% or 20% science, and the bonus that I get is AWESOME! This also minimizes the over-researching effect that seems to do nothing for you, and gives you a huge boost of gold, while keeping your research levels unaffected
i do exactly the same thing and you are right it is a nice bonus you get
Ribannah
Fighter Druid
You can do better though by adjusting the science rate as soon as you can without having it cause a delay. Not only does this give you earlier access to your 'bonus', but also if you wait you will not profit if some other civ discovers the advance and the beaker requirement drops (and you can trade for it, too).
Example: if you can make the discovery in 4 years with science percentages of 100%, 100%, 100%, 20%, you can do better by setting it at 4x80% (you do have the info that that's enough!) and still better with 20% in the FIRST year followed by 3x100%.
Suppose other civs make the discovery after turn #3 and the requirement drops from 320% to say 220%. Then by doing what you do, you lose the equivalent of 80% worth of beakers (+1 appointed scientist in year 4). Even it out and you still lose 20%, but if you start low you can get by with just the lone scientist in turn 4.
Example: if you can make the discovery in 4 years with science percentages of 100%, 100%, 100%, 20%, you can do better by setting it at 4x80% (you do have the info that that's enough!) and still better with 20% in the FIRST year followed by 3x100%.
Suppose other civs make the discovery after turn #3 and the requirement drops from 320% to say 220%. Then by doing what you do, you lose the equivalent of 80% worth of beakers (+1 appointed scientist in year 4). Even it out and you still lose 20%, but if you start low you can get by with just the lone scientist in turn 4.
MadScot
Brandy's back!
I noticed something very odd in my game, and did a little extra digging (without doing anything banned, I just studied the map basically).
In the first screenshot, you can see part of Russia (including a French city they captured in a recent war
) I've circled the iron and coal, and marked the boundaries of the Russian cities.
Why have they not tried to start a city on the red dot. All their cities are metropolises (metropolii?) so they are using every tile they can by now anyway. So the settler would cost them 2 specialists only. And there is a bunch of grassland, plus a river, plus the IRONWORKS could be built. I'm sure a human would have a settler there in seconds!
After I spotted that, I hunted for the other coal and irons. I don't have any pairs close enough, but both the English and Americans do (in the American case, there is iron under Houston). In neither case has the AI either built or relocated a city to enable the ironworks. Boston is an older city, but the English could certainly have built a decent ironworks site before committing too much to their existing cities.
And that made me wonder - has anyone ever seen the AI disband and relocate a city, as humans do?
edit: can only include one picture - you'll have to trust me that the others were as described. (Would have needed disbanding rather than just a new city)
In the first screenshot, you can see part of Russia (including a French city they captured in a recent war
) I've circled the iron and coal, and marked the boundaries of the Russian cities.Why have they not tried to start a city on the red dot. All their cities are metropolises (metropolii?
) so they are using every tile they can by now anyway. So the settler would cost them 2 specialists only. And there is a bunch of grassland, plus a river, plus the IRONWORKS could be built. I'm sure a human would have a settler there in seconds!After I spotted that, I hunted for the other coal and irons. I don't have any pairs close enough, but both the English and Americans do (in the American case, there is iron under Houston). In neither case has the AI either built or relocated a city to enable the ironworks. Boston is an older city, but the English could certainly have built a decent ironworks site before committing too much to their existing cities.
And that made me wonder - has anyone ever seen the AI disband and relocate a city, as humans do?
edit: can only include one picture - you'll have to trust me that the others were as described. (Would have needed disbanding rather than just a new city)
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Cartouche Bee
Appropriations Consultant
MadScot,
It's little details like that that just show how much more could be added with little expense to improve the AI. I just love seeing examples like that, planting cities in (sweet) spots like that would be a must at deity level (any level actually but deity magnifies the clarity of the issue.).
It's little details like that that just show how much more could be added with little expense to improve the AI. I just love seeing examples like that, planting cities in (sweet) spots like that would be a must at deity level (any level actually but deity magnifies the clarity of the issue.).
