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GOTM 180 spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Major Advantage, Jul 14, 2016.

  1. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    I never had the feeling that my game was going "really well" (like #168), I also did not have a clear plan on what to prioritize where (trade, expansion, growth), so it was "launch the biggest ship as early as possible" by gut feeling. I guess I was a little off this time, having "too much" gold at launch, that could have been invested in more food vans for an earlier date and more double-tech-turns. Maybe I should have gone for early landing, before 500 AD is definitely possible, probably not with a big ship.

    Have you ever thought about building a bigger spaceship? I did so in my last GOTM-OCC, and it sure does add a bit of excitement to an uneventful OCC.

    For my own game, I still need to play a few post-launch turns. It's hard to find the time when the olympics start at 2 p.m. and last until 5 a.m... ;)
     
  2. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I have done it exactly once, when I built a second set of modules and the extra structures needed to support that.

    Given the prince level and lack of major hostilities throughout the game, I doubt if that would have made much of a difference but the thought did not occur to me. Will keep it in mind for the next OCC.
     
  3. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    More double-tech turns? I had perma double-techs past Corporation until Flight since the Babs had an unusual appetite for gold and salt vans (usually junk vans on MGE). Highly unexpected, but who am I to complain...

    A few turns off of my own landing as well. Also, Rio's time zone is the exact same as Atlantic Canada's. I don't need to change anything. Go Penny!
     
  4. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    DONE. GOTM score seems to be very lenient for games with more total turns. My score wasn't that high but I still got a very appreciable boost from this being a 520-turn game (must be, otherwise it doesn't make sense...)

    Next part here.

    250 AD (continued) Toronto built. Melbourne built.

    260 AD: 8 vans in Pasargades: Leo’s next turn. Give some techs to the Indians. Physics > Magnetism. Pasargades hides (d) to Thebes: 416g. That’s for a size13 Colossus city with 54 outstanding trade. NOTE TO SELF: Stay the current tax rates this turn, next turn up science to 30%. Bunyan silver (d) to Suse: 117g. A tech in 2 turns. My inability to get Leo’s and Mag’s up swiftly has killed my pace post-Invention. Sydney built. Persépolis II built. Pasargades II built. I really should have taken my time and relied more on van science pre-Inv. Did I mention that I like to complain a lot?
    Interturn: Barbs land near Cunaxa and seize the city. That ain’t gonna help. Undefended. Lose a settler and an engi.

    270 AD: PASARGADES LEO’S. Move a dip near Cunaxa. Need to recoup my treasuries. Nothing will be done this turn. Except for a marketplace rush from scratch in Pasargades.

    280 AD: Magnetism > Steam Engine. Suse salt (nd) to Pasargades: 40g for the critical path. T5L2S3, just wanted to secure the celebrations on 20% luxes. Ergili wine (d) to Elephantine: 245g. Arbela wine (d) to Delhi: 430g. Hut: 50g. Bribe back Cunaxa for 104g. T6L2S2. Suse II built.

    290 AD: Steam Engine > Electricity. Domestic delivery for 195. Pasargades is building food vans to help with speed even if it should have built a library. That’s how urgent Magellan’s is right now. Arbela II built.

    300 AD: Magellan’s in 2 turns. Still need Cope’s and Isaac’s afterwards. Adam Smith would only save 60gpt, not the highest of priorities right now. Antioche salt (d) to Nottingham: 228g. Bank rushed in Pasargades to keep celebration going. Now size 17. Antioche II built. Tarse II built.

    310 AD: Electricity > Conscription. 8 vans in Pasargades: Magellan’s next turn. Persépolis wine (d) to Thebes: 350g. Dariush Kabir hides (d) to THebes; 264g. Bribe two English settlers for 444s apiece, pretty sure they’re preventing the cities from growing (and a Republic switch) Expensive gambit, but foreign trade from Continent 4 is going to be key coming in the late-game stages. (Post-game edit: Gambit failed. Waste of money. But things turned out OK.) Bunyan coal (d) to Pasargades: 175g. T7L2S1.

    320 AD: PASARGADES MAGELLAN’S. Conscription > Refrigeration. Bribe another English settler for 484g. Gordion II built. Reorganize ship chains. Shipchain from home continent to continent 4 done, chain from continent 4 to England almostdone.

    330 AD: Domestic delivery for 145g. Pasargades size 20. Persépolis gems (d) to Thebes: 426g. Suse hides (d) to Thebes: 268g. THEBES NO LONGER DEMANDS HIDES. Dangit… fortunately there is still Alexandrie nearby. However, getting the road down is going to take four additional turns. I’ll have to crank up research meanwhile. Cope’s will be up in 2 turns, when Railroad is discovered. Yes. You read that correctly. Bactres II built.

    340 AD: Refrigeration > Railroad. 6 vans in Pasargades: Cope’s next turn. Sidon II built. Undemanded delivery to Bombay for 220. Wine unblocked. Sidon wine (d) to Bombay: 465g. I am deadset on landing. Not early, not late. T1L2S7 to get The Corporation ASAP. No resources for Darwin’s. Could get a NONE settler for 800g but way too expensive rn.
    Interturn: Barbs near Dakyanus. Thankfully it’s one unit, and they landed on a forest square. I’ll be able to save the city at the cost of a galleon.

    350 AD: HG is cancelled as Railroad > Atomic Theory… Industrialization not available. Darnit. PASARGADES COPE’s. 218 beakers, university started. Move 2 Galleons in Dakyanus to defend against the barb invasion. Almost a tech per turn at 70% science. That’s only 1300ish techcost… theheck? This is so tiny! Tyr II built. Sardes II built. Samarie II built. T1L1S8. 1tech per turn on a more official base now. Hut: AT of Hamadhan II.
    Interturn: Lose a Galleon to a barb knight. Egyptians switch from GL to MPE.

    360 AD: Atomic Theory > Industrialization. Arbela salt (d) to Nottingham: 88g. Undemanded delivery for 127g. Should have a two-tech turn next, and Corporation cued for next turn. Hut: 25g. Ergili II built.
    Interturn: Thebes builds MPE.

    370 AD: Industrialization > The Corporation > Genetic Engineering. Pasargades university, 288beakers. Pasargades hides (d) to Alexandrie: 428g. Lost the Hides demand… that bug is so annoying. Arbela gems (d) to Alexandrie: 414g. Ergili wool (d) to Nineve: 312g. Isaac Newton’s in 2 turns. Going to skip Adam Smith’s for the time being if unrest gets worse. Dariush Kabir II built. T2L1S7.

    380 AD: Genetic Engineering > Electronics > Steel. T1L1S8. I have so many Salt and Gold vans, and everyone demands Copper and Dye because of that bug. Swapping to Classic: maybe requires more junk vans (slower WoW building) or an early Communism research to get Espionage to easily cancel the bug when it happens. Probably worth it still. (Post-game edit: you sure about that buddy?) 86, 58. PErsépolis gold (d) to York: 192g. Pasargades salt (d) to Ur: 504g. Suse dye (d) to Thebes: 268g. 8 vans in Pasargades for Isaac Newton’s. Yet another English settler is bribed for 508g. They maybe have too many military units? I have 0 clue. I’d really like the cities to you know, actually grow… Ghulaman II built. Dang bug is making it really hard to spend the oil vans that I tend to stockpile pre-Combustion.

    390 AD:Steel > Refining > Chivalry. Pasargades Isaac Newton’s, 540 beakers. Domestic delivery for 308g, 182g. Wow, quite a few Pasargades hides vans were unable to be delivered before the demand fell. That’s bad. Deliveries to Pasargades for 218, 190. Zohak II built. 164, 290. 9 vans in Pasargades: the rest of the Cure is RB’d for 600g. Istakhr II built.

    400 AD: Chivalry > Combustion > Leadership. Tarse salt (d) to Elephantine: 184g, creates a new Hides demand. Pasargades hides (d) to Elephantine: 354g, hides demand deleted. Undemanded for 184g, 68g. Pasargades gold (d) to Ur: 804g. I don’t know why, but I think I’m going the Peaster route. More focus on EC from now on. I always lose interest past the Industrial stage during landing games. Maaaaybe it’s because of that bug? EC only until I get a Classic program I guess. (Or a working Classic CD, which I don’t have…) Jinjian II built.

    410 AD: Leadership > Automobile > Fundamentalism (Communism only other choice and don’T have the funds for another wonder I think+ all happiness issues). Istakhr wine (d) to Thebes: 468g. Sardes undemanded 168g, unblocks Wine. Hamadhan hides (d) to York: 84g. SHs rushed in Pasargades. I think that I’m good for a 2tech even if the box is only filled ¾ of the way through. Indians got gifted some more techs as well. Borazjan II built.

    420 AD: Fundamentalism > Mass Production > Tactics. SHs, 702 beakers for Pasargades. T3L1S6 since I am far off from 3techs a turn. Pasargades salt (d) to Ur: 868g. UNLOCKS OIL DEMAND. Gordion oil (d) to Pasargades: 380g. Oil demand removed. How the heck… oh darnit, forgot the foreign bonus isn’t taken into account. Dangit. Herat II built. Dakyanus II built. I probably will only have size12 cities when Space Flight rolls around. Too late for any kind of growth effort. Still no black hats. Maybe some markets and sewers on the mainland, but still.

    430 AD: Tactics > Machinery > Mobile Warfare. 8 vans in Pasargades for Adam Smith’s. No factories yet, so Hoover Dam not immediate priority. Bactres gold (d) to Ur: 384g. Dariush Kabir silk (d) to Memphis: 304g. Dariush Kabir gold (d) to Ur: 534g. A few more vans to cap. Rush a few libraries to keep T3L1S6. Bampur II built. Maybe I should have taken the science hike and spent the money on markets instead.

    440 AD: Mobile Warfare > Miniaturization > Computers. Demanded deliveries for 480, 450, 244, 180, undemanded for 170. Lost a wine demand, darnit, that was dumb. Tureng Tepe II built. Merv II built.

    450 AD: Computers > Robotics. No 2-tech! Dang. 12 vans in Pasargades for SETI, this will fix things. Seems like Hoover will not be built after all. 224g.

    460 AD: Robotics > Nuclear Fission > Nuclear Energy. T9L1S0. Foreign deliveries for 762, 224, 168, 104, 168, 285. T6L4S0. Going to celebrate core to max and outers to size8 (some 12 where I can afford) Celebrations on the cheap. Feel like I need to do now since I’ll need the extra tax income in a few turns. Also need to separate the following celeb push from the post-launch push. Behistoun II built. Simply rushing it won’t cut it.

    470 AD; Nuclear Energy > Laser. Celebrations everywhere. Kandahar II built. Foreign delivery: 311, 952, 252, 400. Altin Tepe II built.

    480 AD: Laser > Amphibious Warfare. Can’t get Flight yet, not enough vans at the ready for Darwin’s. Also need to cash on a few more vans before the Flight penalty. Need the income for celebrations and Apollo vans. 166, 375, 582, 134, 312. Bunyan II built. Charsadda II built. Ura Tyube II built.

    490 AD: Amphibious Warfare > Recycling. Vans: 500, 495, 380. I am extremely blessed to have stable Salt demand in Ur! My crappy commodities are actually being useful this game. Naples II built. 33 million citizens. Issos II built. Find Indian city of Madras. 230. Cunaxa II built.
    Interturn: Babs steal Tactics. This means war! Should have rushed another tank in Bunyan II. Saw that one coming from a mile away since they got foiled by a dip last turn.

    500 AD: Recycling > Flight. Going to deliver everything this turn and rely on Darwin + city science for the last few turns. Vans: 912. Going to stop celebrations after Flight to research the last few techs and get enough money for a few offshore platforms. In a world where I didn’t have the time for Hoover, it’s the least I can do. 545.

    STATUS AT 500 AD: (Beginning of 151th turn)
    Population: 37,860.000 Cities: 87 Government: Democracy Total advances: 73 (researching Flight)
    Gold: 15 T6L4S0 Income/Cost per turn: 1573 income, 135 cost. Production: 410MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Pyramids, HG, LH, Mikes, Colossus, JSB, Leo’s, Mag’s, Cope’s, Isaac’s, Adam Smith’s, SETI, CfC.
    Foreign relations: Peace with everybody but Babs. I’ll kill them soon enough. Will bribe Egyptian cities soonish?


    So long Republic of Hides. Hello Republic of Gold and Salt! Those next turns were better. Slow-starting after the Invention penalty, but constant 2-tech turns after Corporation are good. (Finally having a functional SSC helps…) Took a step back to celebrate a bit. So far it appears to have been somewhat muted. I’m guessing the post-launch will have a bigger impact, but post-launch isn’t really important… it’s the launch date that matters most! And I’m far away from a successful launch. No van reserves either, all earmarked for Darwin’s. And a deficit for Apollo’s!

    Really not sure how this is going to end.
     
  5. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    Yeah, I have invested a lot in vertical growth, and trade alone could not pay for all the gold I needed. So I was having parties all the time and there were only 60% left to spend on taxes and science. Plus, it took me very long to find the time to build Newton. And maybe superhighways everywhere was a little too much. I also had some preparations done for my spaceship.
    Babs where pretty useless in my game, too far away and they only built two cities. I only made one delivery to them, and they were the first to be conquered with a stealth fighter and two paratroopers. However, Egyptians and English are excellent trading partners, demanding cloth, gold, dye, copper, gems, beads, hides, wine....

    Log until 500 AD:

    260 Corp.->Refining; St. Lo founded; 264, 305, 256, 330
    270 Ref.->Steel; Caen founded; 222, 114, 142, 420
    280 Steel->Combustion; 422, 232
    290 Comb.->Automobile; 360
    300 Auto->MassProd.; Bayeux founded; Delay deliveries until SHs are built
    310 720, 812
    320 MassP.->Refrigeration; 318, 784, 330
    330 Refr.->Conscription; 100g from hut; Versailles founded; 666, 474,
    340 Conscr.->Elctronics; 570, 597, 246, 294, 160
    350 Electron.->Chivalry; 217, 375, 249, 510; Could get another tech with 70% science, but then we'd be out of celebration...
    360 Chiv->Leadership; 272, 252, 468, 832
    370 Leader->Tactics; Issy founded; Barbs from hut on island 8; 218, 192, 550, 380
    380 Tactics->Mach. Tools; Adam Smith built; 420, 402, 140, 356, 1040, 244
    390 Mach Tools->Genetic; 296, 952, 255
    400 Genetic->Mini; Cure for Cancer built; Musceteer + 25g from huts; 652, 1116, 226,
    410 Mini->Computers; 420, 540, 1124
    420 Comp.->Mob.Warf.; Paris founded; 76, 450, 112, 390, 376, 744, 772,
    430 Mob Warf.->Atomic Theory; Hoover Dam built; Paris2 founded; 210, 600, 714, 603
    440 Atomic->Nucl. Fission; 400, 1013, 1008, 784
    450 NFiss.->Nucl. Power; 684, 852, 546, 910, 582
    460 NPower->Flight; 50g from hut; 660, 426, 618, 282, 242, 555
    470 Flight->Laser; SETI built, will aim for 2 a/t from now on; 300, 280, 170, 429, 636
    (Barbs capture St. Denis, we lose a van and an engineer. Maybe we have been too careless so far...)
    480 Laser->Radio->Adv. Flight; Newton built; Bordeaux founded; 685, 280, 360, 422, 228
    490 Adv. Flight->Rockets->Recycling; Bribe back St. Denis for 312; Barb leader 100g; 25g from hut; 567, 280, 314, 434, 456, 415
    500 Recycling->Space->Plastics; Apollo built; 400, 607, 328, 255, 158, 200; Not enough gold left to keep doing 2 advances, cut down science

    Stats at 500AD:
    pop.: 53.29M; Cities: 53; techs: 75; gold: 975; Gov.: Dem; wonders: Pyr, HG, Col, MPE, Mike, Copernicus, Shakespeare, Leo, Bach, Newton, Adam Smith, Darwin, Hoover, Apollo, SETI, Cure; TR: ?D/?F
    units: 42 engineer, 12 musc, 2 horse, 1 dragoon, 2 tank, 12 boat, 2 dip, 64 van
    Goals: Spaceship, keep growing
     
  6. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Hum.

    Random question: Do you have many factories in your cities? I did not. It could make the difference since it does look like I'll have more cities in the end. My spaceship took a while to build..
     
  7. haleewud

    haleewud Chieftain

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    I just completed my game. Like Ali, I chose to go OCC. It will be a few days before I will post my log (going out-of-town). Ali beat me by a lot of turns. It will be interesting to see where our games were different.
     
  8. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Welcome back haleewud. You have been missed in action for a few months.
     
  9. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    I never built any factories (except for OCC). Most cities get offshore platforms though, to get their shield output above 10 (or sometimes 20), so they can build a van in 2 turns with some prbing. Maybe factories would be worth being built, but they would rarely be enough to build a van in one turn. Plus, there is the pollution factories cause... On the other hand, sooner or later I built Hoover anyway to cut down pollution... I probably should start including factories into my strategy...
     
  10. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    In my opinion, factories before Hoover are not worth it (OCC is a different case). Before you get a 50% shield boost and significant pollution, after you get 100% and much less pollution. Even with a 100% boost most cities will not get to 50+ shields (the plus is needed for supported units), but most will get to 40+ which works great for space ship parts which are all multiples of 40 shields.
     
  11. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    I have a question.I saw in this site and Apolyton about diplomacy in first version of Civ II and the difference in Gold,in Gold AI more aggresive.I saw in spoilers 'AI is,was friendly',etc.Is just strategy to keep AI friendly or is the difference between version of Civ II,I can't keep all AI players uncooperative or receptive with gifts ?
     
  12. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    In Classic, you can gift techs to get AIs to be friendly to you (share maps, don't attack, etc...) This was removed in MGE to be antagonistic permanently.
     
  13. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    OK,but all players here use MGE ?
     
  14. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    No. Many players use classic. MGE players are welcome to install the patch that restores diplomacy
     
  15. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    Then GOTM's tops are seriously 'damaged' Ali,and you need to make like for other Civ games GOTM's a file for Classic and a file for MGE:).
    See the rules for Civ III and IV,is a file for every game and versions,Civ III Classic,Civ III PTW,Civ III Conquests,Civ IV Vanilla,Civ IV Warlords,Civ IV BTS.And:
    1.A player using 'adventurer' option example have bonuses in start,but score PENALTY.
    2.For Civ III Classic is not permitted version 1.29(have more CHEATS),for other games or versions is permitted just a SINGLE version or patch,for Civ IV Beyond the Sword can play patch 3.19,can't play with patch 3.13 example.
    Classic or MGE I have anyway the last place reserved,my bad style,no problem,but can't make a GOTM when 4 players use a version,3 players other version 'hard',is not fair...
     
  16. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    The conversion for AI behaviour from MGE to Classic can be taken hold of, so I don't think it would be quite a big issue. However, there's something else regarding the demand of trade commodities. In Civ2, there is a bug regarding permanently high demand of copper and dye. In MGE, it invokes itself after a single delivery, which clogs trade lists for 16 turns afterward. That bug is possible to cancel in Classic, but requires more resources (diplomats to investigate cities or junk caravans to force a reupdate of demand lists... spies are most efficient but require Communism).

    Civ2's an old game, so idk how long GOTM's will be made. Not a bad idea, but there aren't many people playing left so it might be ill-advised. still...
     
  17. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    Civ II Classic is a game,Civ II MGE is other game,the difference is not artillery white in Classic and brown in MGE example,are major differences.Can't make a top for 2 different games,need to set bonuses or penalties for each game.
    Anyway,I'm dumb like AI in Civ II,after 2 years I understand,more players here use a 'soft' version of Civ II with a friendly AI and more...
    In my country is a word about games or matches,'bambilici'.'2 soccer teams play 'bambilici'=they just walk the ball,no fun,no show,no goal attempts,viewers bored'.We play a little 'bambilici' here,a part Civ II,a part MGE...:)
    I played multiplayer Civ II Gold,is some else..
    Where is the fun in 2016 to play an old version with a dumb AI and friendly,where is the competition in a game low difficulty with AI friendly ?
     
  18. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    It's a bit like speedrunning I guess? Not necessarily fun, but still an accomplishment.
     
  19. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    Not,speedruning is for kids maybe,we are serious men:).Other romanian phrase is :'to rub the mint',mint=that green plant.'My husband does not want to wash the car,he rubs the mint playing Civ I',an useless activity for wife...:))
     
  20. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    I finally finished and submitted yesterday. Things worked pretty much as planned. It always gets a little tedious in the end though.
     

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