GOTM 31 Spoiler 3: End Industrial age / end game submitted

[Garvarg]

COOL GAME !!!!!!!

Two leaders in one turn. I read about it, but thought "yeah right" but it happened to me!

Turned one into the forbidden city and built a wonder with the other.

My top town, the second built, ended up with SEVEN big wonders and two small. Totally awesome.

But culture flips of conquered cities was a real pain in the, well you know. I lost six veteren swordsman and two elite in one flip, and lost three or four back to the Germans later on.

But whats up with my culture? My major city had only 5652 points with all these wonders. Whats up with that? Are there any good links on how to achieve a 20K or 100K victory?

 

[AlanH]

You can estimate the improvements that are needed for a 20K victory using the Excel 20K culture calculator linked in my sig. Wonders are not enough, you need the other more modest cultural improvements like temple and library, and if you get them early you can get 1000 year doubling of their culture per turn.

SirPleb's writeup this month will show you how a pro plays for 100K.

 

[Lord Jimbob]

You can estimate the improvements that are needed for a 20K victory using the Excel 20K culture calculator linked in my sig. Wonders are not enough, you need the other more modest cultural improvements like temple and library, and if you get them early you can get 1000 year doubling of their culture per turn...

Whoa- I never looked at your culture utility before- it's great!

 

[SirPleb]

How did ensure the AI had bad tech in GotM18?

Here is a link to my first spoiler for that game which includes a description of how I kept the AI research rate slow.

My guess at this juncture is that I need to focus earlier on a victory condition.

I think you are right, you're giving yourself excellent advice on this!

 

[Dianthus]

COOL GAME !!!!!!!

True . Roll on the next one!

But culture flips of conquered cities was a real pain in the, well you know. I lost six veteren swordsman and two elite in one flip, and lost three or four back to the Germans later on.

I reckon you got off lightly. From my Spoiler 2 post:

Flips
I forgot to mention this earlier. I had a number of flips:
350AD : Ex-Iroquois Oil Springs
690AD : Ex-Zulu Ibabanago - Lost ~10 Knights
710AD : Ex-Zulu Ibabanago (yes, again) - Lost ~10 Knights
750AD : Ex-Zulu Umfolozi - Lost 1 Knight
1020AD : Ex-German Cologne - Lost 3 Knights

For me losing 24 Knights wasn't that big a deal. You need to make sure you can handle unexpected things such as this happening. Plan for the unexpected!

But whats up with my culture? My major city had only 5652 points with all these wonders. Whats up with that? Are there any good links on how to achieve a 20K or 100K victory?

GOTM22 has many fine examples of 20K culture attempts. SirPleb managed to win by 20K in 1645AD! See his Spoiler 1, Spoiler 2 and Spoiler 3 posts for details.

 

[el_kalkylus]

GOTM22 has many fine examples of 20K culture attempts. SirPleb managed to win by 20K in 1645AD! See his Spoiler 1, Spoiler 2 and Spoiler 3 posts for details.

In Gotm19 DaveMcW managed to win a 20K culture game at the amazing date 1550 AD. That's also something one might want to check out.

 

[quant jock]

I had never played at this difficulty level before, so I was a little wary about doing this. I figured that I'd try it, and hopefully learn something that would help me win consistently on Regent, where I usually play. I spent a lot of time thinking instead of just playing, which is a new play style for me. I'll try to explain the major decisions I made here.

There was much discourse about the nearby wheat, so I figured I just had to move somebody that way to check it out. It definitely looked like a good city site and would let me try this settler factory strategy I had read about. Unfortunately, it was in the far corner of the map, and I didn't want my capital to be on the edge of the world, so I moved my settler in the opposite direction and built my capital. That way I had a ring of productive cities all the way around my palace. Once I spotted tundra/unproductive terrain, I didn't scout too deeply into that territory (so I had barb problems for a long time), but I did manage to get a lot of good cities. I probably tried to research too much, but things worked out well early on in that department. Based on the European designation of the French, I assumed that I would be starting next to other European civs and didn't reseach what I figured I could trade for. To my dismay, I encountered the English and the Iroquois! (I was hoping for Germans (no GA until late) or Romans (no legion since I had all the iron) early on, and immediately started building forces and establishing cities to wall them off from the bottom part of the continent. This gave me a huge advantage when I had both irons, and apparently they didn't have any. The spent a lot of time beating each other up, and I was happy to take bribes to form an alliance against one or the other. Eventually, my swordsmen took over the starting island and I gained all the wonders built by the other civs. Since one of them was the Great Library, I stopped all research relatively early, and got a slew of advances once I took that city. It was a simple matter to ferry troops up to the north island and finish them off. I got a great leader, built an army, and then built the heroic epic and also the forbidden palace in the center of the north part of my starting island. Life was good.

Things on the main continent were rather interesting. The Zulu had crushed Carthage early on and were the largest civ, just ahead of the Aztecs. The Germans and the Greeks were slightly smaller, but were more advanced. Since I was ahead in score, production and GNP, I tried to maintain my lead, and did not stop reseaching techs. I tried to start trouble a couple of times, but could never pull off a big world war. Each of the four attacked me individually prior to 1700 and it was fairly easy to destroy the forces that they landed on my continent. I was afraid that they would gang up on me, but thankfully, never did.

I got to tanks before anybody else, so i built a bunch and sent them over to the Zulu. They were the strongest, but had inferior technology, so I figured I had the best chance against their troops, and could beat back the 2nd place civ. I ended up taking the west half of their sub-continent, but war-weariness forced me to stop (I was stubbornly clinging to democracy as the only way to finance my research). I was going to consolidate my strength, and then finish off the Zulu, but suddenly, the Greeks were building the UN. I didn't think the Greeks had been at war with anybody but me, so if they built it first, I'd be doomed since I had been at war with everybody. I got to the tech as fast as I could and switched a pre-build to the UN and got it. I was too chicken to actually let it go to a vote, so I kept playing.

Just when I got settled in and was going to try to stay at peace and go for the spaceship (way down the line), the big world war that I kept trying to start finally happened. It was very strange, at one point everyone was at war with everyone else, then there would be military alliances, mutual defense pacts, and it was very confusing. For some reason, war weariness was not a problem even though the war raged for the rest of the game. I wanted to complete the set of luxury resources, so I picked up some northern coastal towns from the aztec. They kept attacking me and it seemed like i got a new GL every turn. At one point I had 10 armies running around. The armies didn't help because the nukes started flying and a huge space race was on between me, the Germans and the Greeks (I could never get a spy with the Greeks, but they were so far ahead tech wise, I figured they had to be building it). I used nukes to cut off sources of aluminum, and was able to build my ship first. Whew! Spaceship victory at 1860!

 

[a space oddity]

Welcome on the CFC and with GOTM, quant jock. And congratulations, that's a great game!

 

[civ_steve]

... For some reason, war weariness was not a problem even though the war raged for the rest of the game. ...

Great write up and exciting game! Just being at war is not enough to cause war-weariness problems; you have to be losing units or cities, moving units through enemy territory, or have enemy units in your territory, to add to the war-weariness counter. There's also reverse war weariness that kicks in if they declare on you!

Ancient Age Report (4000 - 670 BC)

Middle Ages Report (670 BC - 470 AD)

I entered the Industrial Age in 470 AD; England was already eliminated; I was at war with the Iroqouis and had already taken Salamanca and knocked Hiawatha down to just 2 continental cities (along with his other island cities).

I'd brought Germany and Greece into the Industrial Age; they received Nationalism and Steam Power respectively. I started research on Medicine. I managed to kick off my Golden Age with a Musketeer attack in 490 AD; this also captured the last continental Iroq. city, so we signed a peace deal in which I picked up the lonely 2 hex island just East of the Aztec's continent. Over the next 20 turns or so I built a couple warriors and abandoned the city, denying the island to all until Marines (and nobody else was going to be able to build Marines!)

At the beginning of the IA, only Zulus and Carthage had a harbor. Gradually Greece and Germany also build harbors. As they did I made sure to trade a Technology for whatever Luxuries they had, and renewed the deal with another Tech every time it came up. The Aztecs never did build a harbor, so I never got access to their Gems! I'd also gift the AI civs one of my Luxuries, just to keep everybody happy. There was only one early on war (Ancient Age to early Middle Ages) between the Zulu and Carthage, which was pretty much a non-factor. Other than that, I was the only war starter! A very peaceful game.

So the research went on. I followed my typical fast research plan, which is to research up to Electricity, get it in the AI's hands so they can research Replaceable Parts for me; then research Industrialism and Corporation, again get it in the AI's hands so Refining has a chance to be AI researched; finish up with a race up the ScienMeth/AtomTheory/Elect/Radio path, over to Steel, and hopefully along the way I can get the two Techs out of the AI. Well, this wasn't a typical game!! There were too many attractive Middle Age Techs yet to be researched (such as Economics, Democracy, Military Tradition) along with the usual Nationalism-Communism pull; this diluted the AI's research capability too much. Also, the AI were very poor researchers in this game; the lack of early harbors prevented them from trading luxuries and resources to each other, which would allow more commerce for research and redistributes gold more. In the end they did get me Replaceable Parts, but not Refining; in retrospect, I would have done slightly better to use more Golden Age turns researching up the Atomic Theory/ Electronics path then spending 4 of those turns on Corporation.

So, as I was nearly finished with Radio and about to be forced to research Refining myself, I had to make some decisions. SpaceShip or Diplomacy? Wasn't sure at the time, so I started some pre-builds in case I did go for Diplomacy; Chartres started on Theory of Evolution, Avignon (my FP) on Palace, and Strasbourg (my Palace) on Universal Suffrage. I did an Investigate City on Leipzig, which was building TofE - hmm, 21 turns. If I get help with Refining, I could delay TofE until after finishing the IndAge, build it, and get Computers and Miniaturization, use Palace pre-build to do the Internet, and I'd be set to cruise forward for SpaceShip. Without help on Refining, I'd have to finish TofE while Industrial, leaving me to research Miniaturization on my own, with all size 12 cities.

If the AI had researched Refining even 1 turn before me, I could proceed with the SpaceShip, but they actually finished it 2 turns after I' finished. Diplomacy it is, then. I had 4 more required Techs to go (Combustion, MassProduction, MotorizedTransp and Flight), so I adjusted workers to complete my pre-builds in 12 turns. Turn order of the cities is critical; I verified that Chartres goes before Avignon in build sequence. One more order of business - I could be pretty sure of not getting Hiawatha's vote!! Declared war in 960, and finished him off in 990.

In general, I was running between 80-100% Science. On the last turn of research for a Tech I'd drop the % down until I still finished it in 1 turn; this gave me enough cash to continue on. Then increase it for the next Tech to finish in the minimum # of turns. After finishing Refining, the AI couldn't provide me any more help, so I sold it a Tech (Atomic Theory, maybe) for whatever gold and gpt they were willing to pay. I ticked by Combustion, MassProd and (one more final check that all is well; it is), learned MotorTransp in 1060 AD, started on Flight. Finished TofE in Chartres in 1070, learned Flight, start on Fission, learned Fission, Show Me the Big Picture, F1, set research to 10%, F4 - Diplomacy, gift Everybody whatever Resource they're missing, gift them a couple Techs, gift them 200 gpt, F1, open Avignon, set build to UN (finish in 1 turn), exit, build UN in Avignon, also build UnivSuff in Strasbourg, hold UN Vote, Win 5-1 against Shaka!! Final Firaxis score - 6911.

Key things I learned to do better this game were using the Investigate City capability to determine how well the AI was doing in building certain wonders, and the precise timing of research and pre-builds to finish everything on the same turn. Also learned that it might be better to use GA enhanced research for the hardest to learn Techs, and reduce the expected AI contribution from 2 to 1 Tech, if they are researching very poorly. I was 8 turns over optimum research performance; using my GA better would have shaved another 3-4 turns off that.

 

[a space oddity]

Sounds like a good game too, steve.

And now for a long overdue account of my game (I finished and submitted well over a week ago ).

Early expansion:
Like quant jock I moved the settler NW to have a chance of fuller rings. I don't usually use RCP, but this time I decided to give it a good try. I lacked the early settler factory, but the second city did well after a while. I managed to block most of the English and Iroquan settler pairs. I left the tundra peninsula barren too long, so just before I was able to disperse the last barb settlement, I suffered a massive uprising. It was't too bad though and it gave me a nice set of elite units.

I declared war on the English in 550BC with 11 swords, stopped when they were down to 3 cities and got Monarchy and CoL for peace.
I revolted to Monarchy at that point, which probably was not the smartest move, since my end goal was Republic and two anarchy periods, means two periods in which no culture is built and reaching 100k was my target.

I reached the other continent in 330BC. The Germans were the most ahead in culture and made themselves the first target when I'd own the home continent. If I'd beaten them I was pretty sure I could win the game with the desired victory condition. But first the Iroquois, who had the Great Lighthouse in Salamanca, just like in most of the other games. I would be able to conquer all the cities in one war, but they needed a bit of pruning, so that *I* was the one to benefit of the English demise.

The Iroq war I gave me the first leader. He was to become the FP in the middle of the northern part of the home continent. In 150AD the FP was built and 190AD was the year that London fell and we had captured the Great Library. In 210AD France finally left the ancient ages.

The Middle Ages
The last of the English died in 250AD and France revolted for the second time. A gruelling 8 turns of anarchy ended with the rise of the glorious Republic. Vive la Republique!

The Iroquois pulled a stunt in 270AD, renegotiate peace! I had a unit on their land at that point. War would do me no good. But plans were to attack them much earlier than in 20 turns. Sneaky. And so it was that there was peace in France. In 290AD the Zulus demanded money, but they caught Joan still in a bad mood and she refused. Knowing full well the Zulus lacked the ability to cross the waters.

When anarchy was over Greece fell for Joans charms and declared the Zulu for a measely 46g. The actual cost to Greece was much higher, they never grew to any decent size. Carthage was already at war with the Zulu and losing.

Then Grand River flips! In peace time. Remember that I was building culture, I didn't help much I can tell you... I lost Salamanca 3 times! 460AD War was declared on the Iroqs again. By this time muskets were around... very useful against Archers So a glorious Golden Age started in 540AD, France used this to research fast and furious to (yes I know... again) Military Tradition.
This second war lasted too long and it was only in 740AD that we declared Carthage and captured their only city (it had the Hanging Gardens).

The new lands were all cramped with new cities, built as close as possible and got each a Library and after that a Temple. All money rushed of course. Probably I should've jumped the palace there at that point, but I was afraid that I'd ditch the economy and I needed the money to short-rush improvements.

In 770AD France declared the much too cultured Germans and got the Zulu to join for Theology. In 970AD France entered the next age and signed peace for a city and Music Theory.

The Industrial Age
The only tech I still needed was Steam, when I got that I stopped researching. I needed cities and money. Both in large quantaties.
The second war with the Zulus gave us the Pyramids. The Germans were history from the year 1200AD, the Greek peninsula 'joined' France in 1515AD.
In 1570AD we saw the first flip *our* way. I was focussing on expansion and building cities. It pissed off the remaining civs (the Zulus and the Aztecs). The Aztec were never pruned and had Replacable parts before France did. France signed MPPs with both to improve relations and ward of aggression.

1710AD was the year France's culture reached the 100k mark making 1300+ culture per turn. Firaxis score 7056.

My conquering lacked the speed needed to make full use of the strength of Cavalry. The Aztecs were a major threat in the last phase of the game. I should've been less aggressive with my settling in that area. I did notice that Unis have a much better value for money culturally than Cathedrals, same goes for Libraries vs Temples. And I have never build as many Colosseums in any of my previous games as I did in this one. Can you imagine how *happy* the Frensh people were.

All in all a very enjoyable game.

 

[civ_steve]

Good write-up Space (even if it WAS a week late ) SirPleb had an astounding 100K submittal, and an interesting tactic for moving his FP around.

I only had the two flips that I documented in the MidAges spoiler; none at all during the IA. Of course I had passed Hiawatha in culture by that time, with all the Libraries and Universities I was building. I also think setting the Governor in all captured cities helped; at least I could be sure that city wouldn't go into disorder.

That's another interesting point about this game. It's been mentioned that the AI on the remote continents were very slow to build harbors (and in my game the Aztecs never built a one.) I find it interesting that while I've got an army at London's gates, the English are building THREE wonders. And Hiawatha actually did build 3 that I later captured. It would seem that 'Build Wonders Often' was set for the Iroqouis and the English. This reminds me of Ision's thread on Wonder Addiction; I wonder if ainwood set this default on purpose to convince newer players not to be so focused on building Wonders, and to look more at capturing them instead. It also might have been set to simplify the level; making lots of Wonders weakens the nearby civs while providing a benefit to the player(s) who capture them. (And if this is all so, just means that ainwood has many more curves to throw our way!)

I find myself in strange territory. Normally I'm struggling to the final day to submit my game just before the time limit is hit. This month I submitted my save yesterday and my write-up today ... I've got 4 more days of the month left!! What to do? (Probably spend some quality family time over the long weekend, that's what!)

 

[pirke]

This is the first time I play GOTM and my first game at emperor (only 2 games at monarch, the rest regent) and I won by capturing my island and the little one above it, keeping up with the techrace, owning most wonders and got everybody except shaka to vote for me when I completed the UN in 1756.

I can't believe I won at emperor... and if the UN didn't exist I would have won with the spaceship, if that didn't exist I would have won in points. Never been called "the magnificent" before either

I did trade almost all the time with all other nations (never met the Celts or whoever they were), giving them very generous offers for their luxeries, I think at least about 250 gpt in total, science research at max and still having enough money! I like the Smiths Trading Company!

 

[Lord Jimbob]

phew- smokin' diplo victory, civsteve! a quantum leap beyond mine last month- thanks for the inspiration/ lesson in humility!

 

[conehead234]

PTW 1.27f, predator

I didn't post a middle age spoiler, but it basiclly was me kicking England and the Iroquious off the continent and finding the other continent.

When I entered the IA, I forget the exact date, somewhere between 1150 AD and 1250 AD. I have not decided on a victory condition yet, but I may be a milking attempt or space. I started to research toward the ToE. The FP in london, built by a leader helped boost production. I had not had my GA yet. I am going to time it in the late industrial age. In 1290 Sciencific Method comes in, set to santation to get hospitals. In 1315 Santation comes in Trade it for Corporation. Set to RP due in 5. In 1335, FP and Universal Sufferage comes in. In 1355, espionage, ToE, atomic theory, Electronics. Set research to refining due in 5. I continue to drain the gold from the AI from Trades. In 1380 AD refining came in. Research set to steel at 4 turns, finally. In 1400AD Iron works comes in. Steel in researched in 1405AD and start on combustion due in 5. Combustion is in at 1430AD and research set to mass production due in 4. Buy trading I am able to gain huge ammounts of gold and gpt, I use the gold so I can rush improvements in my cities to prepare for the invasion of the other continent. In 1435 hoover comes in, kicking off my GA. Mass production comes in at 1450 AD set to Motorized transportation due in 4, gaining 1294 gpt. Motorized transportation is in at 1470 AD. Set to Flight due in 4. Flight is in at 1490 AD. Set to Radio, due in 4. IN 1510 AD, the radio is researched and I enter the Modern age, With Germany, aztecs, and Greece not far behind. I haven't decided yet if I want to go for a space race victory or try to milk the game. If I decide to milk I have to start to get a move on invading the other continents.

 

[civ_steve]

phew- smokin' diplo victory, civsteve! ...

Thanks, Lord Jimbob! For a truely supercharged, pedal-to-the-metal Diplo Victory, check out SirPleb's mid 800's submittal for Gotm24!!

 

[Megalou]

Congrats, civ-steve, beating me by 10 turns. Since you apparently did Radio in 4 turns, and did the ToE-slingshot to Fission, I think you deserved it. I just wonder what would have happened if I hadn't started out by researching pottery. The odds were pretty good for trading it, even before the fact. Next time I will check F10 in the beginning.

Looks like I should have chosen spaceship (I was fed up with the game) but if kunungas picked that we'd all be smoked anyway.

 

[stragedy101]

Civ vanilla 1.29

Never played emporer before, so used conquest version. Played always war the last five hundred years or so that actually drove me into anarchy (from democracy) on the second to last turn.

The Aztecs built the UN, but with only the Greeks and the growing French remaining, there was never a vote since we were at war with each other for most of that period. I'm sure the Aztecs were starting to build up a nuclear arsenal (I was behind in techs, but didn't care), but my tanks were rolling through Greek territory and the French reached the domination limit in 1818 with a Fireaxis score of 5399 (less with Jason, of course).

Probably could have had a good chance to win on the standard version with this map setup, but I was not sure about how emporer changed the playing field. Next month, I will work on the opening play, but will not complete due to work and travel commitments. Once I get to a certain point next month, I probably will hit the enter key to end the game. Maybe the next game will be a lower (regent) game, so I can try the 5 city strategy for a quicker game.

Have not played a domination game for a long time; obviously my civ skills are limited since the creme de la creme win about 1,200 years earlier. I have read many of the academy articles, but I can't get around to making my play so "mathematically" precise.

 

[AlanH]

Well done stragedy101.

I can warmly recommend Republic if you are playing warmonger. With it's modded unit support in the current range of gotms it's very cost effective, and it's much easier to keep your citizens under control than in a Democracy.

 

[LeSphinx]

For warmonger game, since GOTM29, I check the use of the monarchy goverment with lot, lot , lot of city. Your army cost you NOTHING.
Quite powerfull!
LeSphinx

 

[a space oddity]

The down side to that is that *if* you happen to have large cities, some of those troops will have to stay behind to play police. So yes, Monarchy is good if you have many, many, small towns, ICS in short.