GOTM 34 Pre-Game Discussion

[AlanH]

You're right about early game defense. Even if I don't go all the way down to NO spearmen, something I've been experimenting lately is have a spearman located 1 turn away from 2 cities.

Well, if I'm right, what are you building spearmen for? 20 shields buys you an archer who can kill barbs and earn 25 gold per barb camp, or two warriors who can upgrade to something usefully aggressive later. Trust me. Try ZERO spearmen. Throw away that security blanket

 

[denyd]

iqppfk: Welcome to CFC and GOTM

Just a couple of items - save the settler action on the first turn until last, so that you can make your decision based on all possible information. Also on the turn you found your capital, be sure to visit your science advisor and select a tech, you'll get the tech 1 turn earlier than if you wait for the advisor to prompt you for a research topic. And though you probably already know this, strive to get out of Despostism as soon as possible.

AlanH: As for spearmen, I normally start adding them near the end of the AA (while they are cheap) to allow my garrisoning swords to gather and attack an enemy. Saving the 10 shields in building another sword and still having the garrison is important to me. I like to have about 1 spear for each 3-4 cities when the AA ends and upgrade a couple to pikes to add a top of stack defender to my SOD (protects my swords from attacks) and to have a quality defender to my border cities in case an AI unit appears on a hill/mountain nearby.

 

[alamo]

There is a logic to building only offensive units, especially ones with 2+ moves. If you always have enough troops to kill anything that comes near then a defence force is not necessary.

Also, the AI seems to make DoW decisions based on overall strength, as opposed to tactical deployment weaknesses. That means a strong offensive force deters attacks much better than a defensive force, even if you are pretty well tied up in war. Check your relative status (weak/avg/strong) against other civs in the F3 screen.

Regent zulu on standard map, apparently on the edge of a continent - hmmm - which victory condition should I choose?

 

[solenoozerec]

If we're in islands, I would go straight to Granary, Warrior, Settler while I research Alphabet at 100% to get to MM ASAP.

This tells me that we are not on an island:

4.) you may choose not to to do a lot of research yourself.

Otherwise, I do not know how to inerpretate it.

 

[alamo]

I took that to mean you could keep the tech pace slow, build up a ton of troops and go beat techs out of the other civs.

 

[denyd]

The ever popular pointy-stick research method

This does not bode well for Mursillis getting to space quickly. He's got the trifecta of anti-space race events:

1. Regent level, so the AI won't help much beyond the AA with research
2. A non-builder tribe with no cheap buildings (except barracks)
3. No immediate settler factory options to encourage rapid city expansions (make up for quality with quantity)

Add to that non-industrious so workers are slow and no age change science boost, getting to space pre-1600 is going to be a real challenge.

 

[dmanakho]

I never ever had a 20K victory, so since we play regent level i will try to get one for myself this time...

I am sure this game will be over in BCs for some of the expert players, giving the fast UU and cheap barracks.... There would be a way to wage fast and deadly war against weak regent level AIs...

 

[AlanH]

still having the garrison is important to me.

With what purpose? By that time you should be heading for Republic - specially a spaceman like Mursillis - so you don't need them for MPs. Surely you don't let the AI come anywhere near your cities, do you?

 

[Civgeek]

I never ever had a 20K victory, so since we play regent level i will try to get one for myself this time...

I am sure this game will be over in BCs for some of the expert players, giving the fast UU and cheap barracks.... There would be a way to wage fast and deadly war against weak regent level AIs...

I'm also thinking this might be a good time to try for my first 20K victory. Anybody have any tips for pursuing a 20K?

 

[denyd]

AlanH: I only garrison border & coastal cities. Once rails arrive (and until marines are available) I only garrison cities that can be reached in a single turn by the AI and have a mobile strike force to eliminate any attackers before they can reach other cities. Unless the Vikings are in the game, then I have to garrison all coastal cities from the advent of Berserks. I've found that the AI is drawn to start wars when undefended cities are easily within reach. What really complicates this defense method is once rails are around and you are forced to give a ROP to get something you really need. Then you spend the next 20 turns hoping the AI doesn't beeline one of your undefended wonder cities.

 

[AlanH]

I've lived a sheltered existence in a limited range of games, and I guess my style has evolved rather differently from yours so far. I'm sure I'll learn the hard way one day, but so far I've survived and prospered on a policy of building zero defenders.

My policy is always to own my home continent as soon as possible. That involves eliminating the local civs as fast as possible, as soon as I have enough resources to do so. If you take the attack to the AI their offensive troops, such as they are, are too busy countering your attacking force to get around to coming after your cities. I've never seen the Vikings attempt a Berserker amphibious assault, but they've never been a force to reckon with in the GOTMs I've played, and I'm always the aggressor. In any case, the AI is so pathetic at seaborne invasion that a small mobile active defence force is enough to wipe out the typical half-boatload of obsolete units that they land at any time.

I've never felt the need to sell a RoP to a local civ where it could be used against me, and I'm usually the one capturing wonders. I only build them if I get leaders as I wipe the others out.

 

[Psychonaut777]

I really like the Zulu, lately I've played a lot of games with them. The Zulu's best tactic is the very early charge. =)

 

[Randy]

I think AlanH is 100% correct. I build vary few if any defence. I build all most only warriors, swordsmen or horsemen (late in the AA for upgrade).

Warrior and swordsmen can reach your closest AI easy.

Own the home continent as soon as possible.

 

[Lord Jimbob]

I'm also thinking this might be a good time to try for my first 20K victory. Anybody have any tips for pursuing a 20K?

Here's a link to a very useful spreadsheet- I used Greebley/AlanH's for COTM1- very helpful!:
Culture 20k calculator
T-Hawk's article in the War Academy also has some good tips. I have really enjoyed the 20K games I've played- it's arguably more like the way Civ 'should' be played

BTW- I'm not sure if the 20K calc is the same one in AlanH's signature- that's the one I have used I got it from one of SirP's posts...

 

[Tone]

T-Hawk's article in the War Academy also has some good tips.

Just remember that T-Hawk's article was written for conquests where you can't rush wonders without a SGL. In civ3 you can farm for GLs which can then be used to rush wonders. The militaristic trait helps here as it is easier to get units to elite status.

 

[AlanH]

I'm not sure if the 20K calc is the same one in AlanH's signature

Your link is to SirPleb's. Mine used a different starting point based on Greebley's structure and doesn't use macros. SirPleb's has been updated for Conquests, but mine hasn't yet. On the positive side mine does handle Anarchy accurately and as far as I know it gives accurate results - it was adapted for use by the gang who played a 5CC 100K SG.

 

[Civgeek]

Here's a link to a very useful spreadsheet- I used Greebley/AlanH's for COTM1- very helpful!:
Culture 20k calculator
T-Hawk's article in the War Academy also has some good tips. I have really enjoyed the 20K games I've played- it's arguably more like the way Civ 'should' be played

BTW- I'm not sure if the 20K calc is the same one in AlanH's signature- that's the one I have used I got it from one of SirP's posts...

Thanks! The article is very helpful, as is the spreadsheet calculator. Anybody have any thoughts on the capital vs. 2nd city as the 20K city, given the difficulty is only Regent? Is the availability of the palace pre-build that critical against such relativley slow AI builds/tech pace?

 

[klarius]

Anybody have any thoughts on the capital vs. 2nd city as the 20K city, given the difficulty is only Regent? Is the availability of the palace pre-build that critical against such relativley slow AI builds/tech pace?

The palace prebuild ability is unimportant on regent.
You will have more wonders available than you can build by hand.

But there is the FP which gives more culture than the palace. And you can even free jump the palace into your 20k city after you built the FP.

 

[Singularity]

@Ainwood

What was our nationality again?

 

[alamo]

The glorious Zulu, as previously revealed.

Any chance at getting the game this weekend?