GOTM 34 Pre-Game Discussion

[a space oddity]

You could also count the Impi as a unit with which it's easy to avoid an early GA, like gozpel said. There are ways to make an obsolete unit win a battle whenever you like, and Impi's will never be a compulsory part of your SoD, so the odds to 'accidentally' trigger a GA are kinda slim.

 

[Rassnie]

Impis are most useful when used in conjunction with Horsemen and/or Swordsmen. I wouldn't suggest trying to fight any other civ with an army made up of just Impis, but they offer very good protection for Horsemen since both can move two spaces. Even though Swordsmen also have 2 defense, you don't want the enemy attacking your Swordsmen. In this situation Impis prove quite useful. They can either follow right on top of Swordsmen to guard them on their way to the city gates, or you can send them ahead a space to soften the resistance (that will invariably attack if they have a chance). When sent ahead, Impis are useful whether they win or lose a fight. If they win the fight, you can just move your Swordsmen up. If they lose, they retreat and the attacker moves forward, hopefully damaged. This leaves them open to a Swordsman counterattack. The free retreat itself is also nice for the same reasons that retreat is nice for Knights. It gives you a chance to heal your defenders and reuse them, giving you the chance to build attack units or city improvments instead of replenishing defensive units (who tend to be quite slow and hard to get to the battlefield).

The extremely early GA could be seen as a downfall by those who like to time one in the middle ages. If I'm playing as the Zulu I don't mine an early GA though. I can easily pump out 25-30 Swordsmen during this early GA, giving me a huge boost in my early warfare even at Emperor level. If you're playing as Zulu I'd suggest going on a very early conquest of your neighbors at least and of the whole world at best. This is where their strength lies: the early attack. I personally think they're the best civ for dominating the game through military means.

 

[alamo]

Ok, there are ways of salvaging the impi, but the best civ for conquest?

The mil/indust chinese can beat the zulu in productivity and get a better UU to boot! (Rider = 3 move knight)

If you have to defer use of your UU to avoid a GA then it is not a good unit in the first place. If you can build any of the good offensive UU's then you want to use them immediately - immortal, samuri, riders, sipahi, cossack or war elephant.

I know, the elephant is just a knight built w/o iron. Sometimes it's better to build a bunch and upgrade to cav before triggering GA.

 

[a space oddity]

...
If you have to defer use of your UU to avoid a GA then it is not a good unit in the first place. ...

The use of this particular unit lays in its early speed, which is nice in combination with expansionist. Vive la difference is what I say.

 

[civ_steve]

...

Zulu: Militaristic + Expansionist UU: Impi (1/2/2) replaces warrior.

...

Actually, the Impi replaces the Spearman.

I'm not big into building defensive units; a fast spearman doesn't thrill me, but it would make for a small mobile defense force for cities connectec by roads.

Also, a fast unit that costs 20 to build doesn't sound as good as a scout which only costs 10.

Main benefit of Impi (IMO) is to accompany Horsemen providing defense. The AI uses them to flood you out; they are a potent weapon for pillaging and harassing. You could use them to just pillage the hell out of your neighbors leaving them ripe for your follow up attacks.

I'd prefer to trigger a GA with Wonder's; should try to get Monarchy or Republic as soon as possible for early GA, then go on a rampage.

I haven't finished GOTM33 yet, and I'd really like to see if I can do COTM3, so GOTM34 looks kind of iffy for me. Probably have to do a very limited city build and fast game.

In the 'GOTM/COTM is too Difficult' thread, the discussion points to this being a low level game. Regent (maybe Warlord ). If so, I wouldn't expect any food bonuses to be evident; they shouldn't be necessary at this level. Also, the Wines spaces mean less Worker turns to get pretty productive spaces; early on all you have to do is mine them (although, you'll want to road them to get the Luxuries). I love high commerce starts; means faster research or lots of cash for upgrade - your choice!

 

[solenoozerec]

The impi is a 2-move spearman. The retreat ability is an extra benefit, but there is no real offence capability against anything other than warriors. That means you must pump out impis ASAP and go attack your neighbors before they build spears. Of course if your neighbor already has BronzeWorking or has Jaguar Warriors then forget it. If you do defer your expansion for an attack then you will expend you GA with only a handful of towns making impis. Does this sound like a great idea to you?

So far, discussion sounds like impi is the worst UU and Zulu is the worst civ. I disagree. The good thing about impi is that it runs as fast as horseman. Therefore, it is useful to use them in combination with horseman.

 

[smackster]

So far, discussion sounds like impi is the worst UU and Zulu is the worst civ. I disagree. The good thing about impi is that it runs as fast as horseman. Therefore, it is useful to use them in combination with horseman.

But its really better to hold your GA until much later, when you have more cities and two well developed cores. I'll build a few but hide them until I need to kick off the GA.

 

[alamo]

Exactly. The UU is reduced to a GA kicker. Meanwhile, other UU's are tearing across the battlefields. For your troubles you get slow workers, reduced commerce, and no cheap culture buildings.

Why would you build an impi to escort a horse when you can just build another horse and kill whatever attacks you?

Impi replaces spear - I stand corrected. That's what I get for copying from the info center.

Zulus Shaka Zimbabwe Impis (1/2/2) Warrior Militaristic & Expansionist

If the difficulty is Regent (or lower) then I'll stop complaining. (really!)

 

[denyd]

Don't we normally get the mini-map or level 3 days before release (today)?

We've spent the last 24 hours beating up the Zulu & Impi, so it's time for something else to complain about.

 

[Tarkeel]

Zulus are probably my least favorite civ of all.. The Impi is basically good for 3 things: Covering horse stacks on offense, killing horses in defense by denying retreat, and allows easier defense shuffle. That last part is only useful in war heavy games.

I'm hoping this is atleast a continent, preferably pangea. One could also hope for lots of room to expand/explore for huts, but I doubt it... The non expansionist civs are usually rather lousy at popping huts, but I'm guessing we have the full package of expansionist civs against us as well

 

[AlanH]

Why would you build an impi to escort a horse when you can just build another horse and kill whatever attacks you?

Agreed. And if you don't have horses you are better off building Archers for 20 shields each than Impi. A spear is pretty useless. A fast spear is hardly any better.

 

[a space oddity]

There was a SG some time ago where they used the Zulus for an early conquest victory. I've looked but I couldn't find the thread, maybe it was too long ago. It was a huge success, BTW, so don't give up on the Impi yet...

 

[Bigfoot]

^ Impi are good for pillaging missions too (provided you are careful not to trigger an early GA). The militaristic trait is OK in my book, I tend to build lots of rax and wouldn't mind trying my hand at some leader fishing. I am not too crazy about the expansionist trait though, whenever I try it I seem to either get stuck on an island or else I wind up sharing the continent with 2-3 other expansionist civs. I hope we don't get another jungle-packed world, my machette is just about worn out from the last GOTM.

 

[gozpel]

You don't need to road the wines, they are already 2 gold with the river.

Well, we obviously play different styles More commerce, quicker research.

 

[denyd]

Gozpel: I think the point is that the road on the second wine won't add any benefit except for trading. You'll be getting the 1 commerce from the wine and 1 commerce from the river, if you road the wine the 3rd commerce gets eaten by the despotism penalty, so don't waste the worker turns until you are near leaving despotism unless you've got a trading partner for them.

Ainwood: Isn't it time for another bread crumb for us hungry souls??

 

[WetSawdustDemon]

I could be wrong (and I often am) but I think what Klarius was getting at is that you won't get more than 2 gold under a Despotism government, so roading the Wine tile has no effect straight away that's why it makes sense to mine it first as you'll get the benefit of the extra shield a few turns earlier. Obviously with it being a wine tile we'll want to road it anyway but just not until we need it to deal with unhappy citizens.

 

[ainwood]

OK - some more breadcrumbs.

I've attached the minmap below.

Secondly, the extra commerce is because you may choose to do a lot of research yourselves.

 

[ainwood]

I could be wrong (and I often am) but I think what Klarius was getting at is that you won't get more than 2 gold under a Despotism government, so roading the Wine tile has no effect straight away that's why it makes sense to mine it first as you'll get the benefit of the extra shield a few turns earlier. Obviously with it being a wine tile we'll want to road it anyway but just not until we need it to deal with unhappy citizens.

This is correct. Under despotism, any tile producing 3 or more food, shields or gold suffers a 'standard tile penalty' - the food, shield or gold is reduced by one. Base commerce for plains = 0, add a river = 1, add wines = 2. If you then road, you add one commerce (3), but suffer the tile penaly (back to two).

Repbulic gives a commerce bonus of one gold in any tile already producing one, and doesn't have the tile penalty. So, under republic the roading is worthwhile (to give base commerce of 4)

 

[Bigfoot]

Secondly, the extra commerce is because you may choose to do a lot of research yourselves.

Slow tech pace because there are no nearby civs? Uh oh, sounds like I am stuck with an expansionist civ on a stinking island again!

 

[Denniz]

OK - some more breadcrumbs.

I've attached the minmap below.

Let's see... the water to the east is probably coast instead of a lake. Anyone ever see a major landmass cross the mini-map border?

Secondly, the extra commerce is because you may choose to do a lot of research yourselves.

And... I'm guessing we are palying on Regent.

Or that could mean we are on an island will have to research MM ourselves before we get any contacts. Let's hope not, that would pretty much waste the expansionist trait.