Gotm20-Spain Pregame Discussion

Very early on, if your trade is too low, the 10% lux still rounds to 0g. You need to go to 20% lux just to get 1g toward lux.

Same thing happens with science. If you're not making enough gold, the "min science" is actually 20% until you're making more gold.

EDIT: Cross posted with AlanH
 
Dislak:

I'm sure someone more qaulified than me will answer this but anyway...

At Deity level you get 1 content citizen only. To prevent the need for an entertainer at Pop 2 (assuming you have no happiness improvements or luxuries) you need to move the slider. Sometimes moving the slider by 10% does not increase the total spend on happiness, because early in the game you may not be making enough commerce. You need to move the slider enough to change the citizen you have from content to happy. Sometimes its difficult to tell, so you may like to install the smiley faces graphic. It's pretty good.

I hope this is correct, and I'm sure if it's not then it will be corrected!
 
Originally posted by TedJackson
I did. First post after opening announcement.

Since then everbody seems obsessed about JPEG artefacts and disease :)


Ted
You did indeed, Ted. And I followed it up and read Cracker's analysis with great care. Thanks for the tip. As I get more experience, I have to go back again to Cracker's articles on the start game. Each subsequent visit reveals more nuggets of wisdom.

Although the GOTM 8 scenario claims to be for 1.21, I found I was able to load it up in Mac version 1.29, after failing in 1.21, so I'll use it for some much-needed practice.
 
wow, i asked one question and 3 people popped up to answer :) I've never seen a group of people be this nice to newbies. Thanks everyone! :D
 
Dislak@ I was really hoping we answered your question since all of us cross posted the same response. Isn't the GOTM community great?:goodjob:
 
Originally posted by Dislak
wow, i asked one question and 3 people popped up to answer :) I've never seen a group of people be this nice to newbies. Thanks everyone! :D
Hey, I'm a newbie myself so I know how you feel. It's great when I think I know the answer to a question instead of asking them all the time. ;)
 
I will also add that is really refreshing to see everyone help to answer questions and also have some reasonable confidence that the answers will be close to helpful and correct. If you ask the same question in other places you might get 20 replies but over half of them will make the problem worse or more confused. At least here we can have some reasonable confidence that the answers will be on topic and to the point. :thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by Ebomb808
You know, if the AI is just as supportive as the people in this forum, this deity game is going to be no problem.

Hey Ebomb!

I think the last diety GOTM had just about as many winners as you have posts. So, best of luck!

:D
 
Yes, god help us if we're stranded on an island with Persia again.

BTW, I think that GOTM14 was Bamspeedy's base for the Diety Settler Factory article, IIRC.
 
Originally posted by ControlFreak
Yes, god help us if we're stranded on an island with Persia again.

I did a practice run last night with the spanish, on a random continent map until i got a flood plain start, and got stuck in the middle of a huge continent surrounded by German, French, English, Russian, and Celts, and i had no coastline and bordered all 5 civs. Yikes.
 
Originally posted by vanatteveldt
Actually, the two resources wouldn't be adjacent, but rather one square apart (see bamspeedy's post on page 3 or 4). I don't think the generator has anything against that, and remember Cracker is omnipotent and His ways are ineffable so you never know what's under that fog tile :-)

The putative incense S/SW is adjacent to a flood plain that's S/SE. Thus I think there's unlikely to be wheat there. The space S/SE is especially important because it's one of the spaces that is in the city radius of the start location but not of the hilltop.

There's also the flood plain that's SE/SE, which some people have observed as having an artifact that might be wheat, and I agree that that space isn't adjacent to the incense. But if the wheat is there, then it doesn't matter too much whether you build the city on the start space or on the hilltop.
 
Originally posted by DaviddesJ


The putative incense S/SW is adjacent to a flood plain that's S/SE. Thus I think there's unlikely to be wheat there. The space S/S is especially important because it's one of the spaces that is in the city radius of the start location but not of the hilltop.

There's also the flood plain that's SE/SE, which some people have observed as having an artifact that might be wheat, and I agree that that space isn't adjacent to the incense. But if the wheat is there, then it doesn't matter too much whether you build the city on the start space or on the hilltop.

Oh but it does. Moving to the hilltop greatly increases the chance of finding some shielded grassland which is badly needed to use that possible wheat to its best advantage. It appears that for the three mystery tiles to the northeast we will be moving to, we are giving up three tiles that produce only a piddly sum of two shield naturally.
 
Originally posted by ltcoljt

Moving to the hilltop greatly increases the chance of finding some shielded grassland which is badly needed to use that possible wheat to its best advantage. It appears that for the three mystery tiles to the northeast we will be moving to, we are giving up three tiles that produce only a piddly sum of two shield naturally.

You're giving up five tiles: hill, forest, plains, desert/incense, flood plains. That's 5 to 8 shields, although admittedly on mostly unfavorable terrain.

The desert/incense isn't likely to be worked soon, but effectively it's worth 1+ gold/turn just to have it within your borders, until you can hook it up another way, since the luxury will reduce your need for entertainment.

If there is wheat available, then I don't think, with 3 forests in range of the start location (including one immediately available to work), the grassland/shield is that critical, although it would certainly be nice. It's going to be quite a while before your worker can mine the grassland (assuming you want to irrigate the wheat first, which seems a higher priority, and then perhaps build some roads), and until then it's not significantly better than a forest. Especially since I'm going to want to keep my capital small (to avoid the threat, or minimize the damage, from disease).

On the other hand, if there's no wheat or other bonuses, then getting grassland/shield is pretty important, and there's unlikely to be a higher priority than heading over to improve it. But in that case, moving the worker onto the hill first, and then the settler, does no harm, because the worker is going that way anyway (although roading the start tile and then moving two spaces on turn 4 is also reasonable).
 
must........ ask .......... question.......... :rolleyes:

How critical is that tile anyway? Isn't the timing (and location, if defense is an issue) of settling your first city more important than going on a "tile hunt"? I'm thinking that my first settler is going on the hill, and my second settler will know where to go to find resources by then. Can't your "settler factory" be the second city you settle? Or is it THAT important on deity (never played deity.... wish it were emperor again.... ;) ).

Thanks for the input!

-- From The Cellar :cooool:
 
CD22: The problem on diety (if you didn't know already), is that all the AI's start with 2 settlers, so if you delay your settler factory until city 2 or 3, you could be 3-4 cites behind by then and most of the availble land will be gone. Unless you're playing Conquest (like me), you need to get that 2nd settler out ASAP and keep producing them until there isn't any space left.
 
Originally posted by CellarDweller22

How critical is that tile anyway? Isn't the timing (and location, if defense is an issue) of settling your first city more important than going on a "tile hunt"?

IMHO, if there's wheat around, then getting it in the city radius vs not getting it is a huge difference. Irrigated flood plains/wheat generates a net +3 food/turn. If you get that for "only" 20 turns, until you can push out a settler and get it there, that's 3 extra citizens making stuff for you, for the rest of the game!

Grassland/shield, if mined, gives you 40 shields over the same period, but the 3 citizens will generate a lot more than 40 shields, very quickly.

The other factors are all relatively secondary, compared to the huge benefit of getting a bonus food resource, especially this one. IMHO of course.

As cracker says, playing accurately afterward is still much more decisive than any of this initial decision making. But, I do think that the first move can make quite a significant overall difference, at least in this particular position.
 
If I remember correctly, no matter what type of tile you found a city on, all the food/shields are the same.

So if it turns out that the square S-SE is an incense/desert square, founding a town there would get the default food/shields (yet no bonus gold), right??
 
So last night I ran India in a deity Gotm8 on a floodplain with no bonus grassland and silk forests.

Without going into the long details here is a summary of what happened.

Research & Trading: I took the advice of somebody way up the thread to start researching writing (40 turns) right away and then moved on to Code of laws with an eye to trade my way to catching up with the AIs.

Generally it worked as having Alphabet and loads of cash gave me Warrior Code, the Wheel, Bronze Working from japan and Pottery and Masonry from China in 1870 BC. By selling contact with the Chinese to Japan I picked up iron Working and Horse Riding and then since japan could communicate with China I sold of Pottery and masonry for some cash to Japan in 1750BC.

However, I must have sold Alphabet too soon to China as they were able to beat me to Code of Laws (I got it in 975BC).

I still was able to buy philosophy (950BC) and Mysticism (1425BC) from China and after Code of laws I set to work to reasearch the Republic on the off chance that I could beat China to it and trade for more techs.

Trading went down hill from there as a massive China kept wandering through my much smaller India on it way to hack at the Japanese. this and at least one extortion from China led me to ask for a right of passage and i unwisely also entered into an alliance against Japan (1125BC).

Net result was I lost a weaker trade partner and couldn't trade with China as they were so advanced...

Population: Here is where I need some work... I got settlers out and settled cities in 2550, 1550, 1500, 1200 (horses secured) and 1075 BC, but I was way behind in terms of population.

I must really study cracker's pop rushing discussion in Gotm8 more, as I guess I am missing a fundamental with regards to pop rushing settlers.

Production & Food: the analysis of others and of Gotm8 is very useful in our starting position in terms of mining plains first and accessing the floodplains later.

Disease: Although I had two cities on floodplains (including my capital) and I had workers working floodplains, too, I lost no population to disease when I logged out in 800BC. Lucky I guess.

Also, I had made no contact with other Civs and these were securing Wonders probably as a result of GAs (Persia and Babylon) so I don't know if I was really keeping up in the tech race... at least on my continent I was a decent second and given my play I think that was reasonable.

In conclusion, if there are not bonus greener pastures to the northeast and I cannot get a handle on pop rushing settlers I'll be having a tough time. At least I know that I can play a decent reserach trade game though so all might not be lost in that case.

One other thing (mainly for the newbies like me) when I first ran this scenario I had great luck with goodie huts (gold, a settler and a tech with only one barb) at a loss of one warrior. In the example above, i felt emboldened to attempt this again and lost three warriors for 25 gold. Therefore, the previous advice on avoiding except in defnsible position and in force is worth it. The loss of three warriors is too much to take when China is you immediate neighbour.

The plan for me therefore is to scout the hill with the worker and then either settle on the hill if there are bonuses to the northeast and if not to try and make a go at the starting point because much can happen after the first two turns!
 
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