Grammar, Style and the Colopedia

[Schmiddie]

@Kendon

Really a fantastic job! Great that someone makes this effort. Keep it up.

 

[Kendon]

Marvelous text-work all around!
It reads well, is hugely immersive and still manages to transport the old TACs sense of fine humour

Kind regards
XSamatan

@Kendon

Really a fantastic job! Great that someone makes this effort. Keep it up.

Thank you for the kind words, particularly that I've been true to the TAC tradition.

Perhaps one day an internet archaeologist will unearth which name among those ancient modders chose the historic quotes and wrote the dialogue for the then-new TAC characters.

I bought a Windows-compatible laptop just to play this game. I haven't been disappointed.

 

[Kendon]

I'd be able to get started on a spreadsheet for goods and materials this weekend. Including requirements and what they're good for in production chains. I think that would help for adding or correcting info in the Colopedia.

I've finished updating English text for the older yields and how they interact with new yields. Most now have a sentence or two describing the way that many buildings have multiple functions.


Strategy at the beginning shows where certain products need extra raw materials (cannons from tools and coal, not just tools) and how now there are longer production sequences, like sheep-wool-wool cloth-dyed wool cloth-everyday clothes.


I've also added a new hint so players are reminded that when the King borrows their first frigate, he'll grab any troops it's carrying. You'll get the frigate back in ten turns, but not the soldiers.

 

[Cacaso]

Strategy at the beginning shows where certain products need extra raw materials (cannons from tools and coal, not just tools)

The raw materials used to craft Cannon/Guns are now Iron Ore + Coal.

While the raw material to produce tools/blades is only Iron Ore.

Now the conversion of tools into cannons no longer occurs. That was the way older versions were produced, now it's different

old
Iron ore > Tools > Cannon.
current
Iron ore + Coal > Cannon

 

[Tucker8]

I've finished updating English text for the older yields and how they interact with new yields. Most now have a sentence or two describing the way that many buildings have multiple functions.


Strategy at the beginning shows where certain products need extra raw materials (cannons from tools and coal, not just tools) and how now there are longer production sequences, like sheep-wool-wool cloth-dyed wool cloth-everyday clothes.


I've also added a new hint so players are reminded that when the King borrows their first frigate, he'll grab any troops it's carrying. You'll get the frigate back in ten turns, but not the soldiers.

I'm planning on correcting, and cleaning up the butcher's house + upgrades tonight (English and German). Please let me know if you already have other plans for that.

 

[Kendon]

I'm planning on correcting, and cleaning up the butcher's house + upgrades tonight (English and German). Please let me know if you already have other plans for that.

No. It sounds like you have everything well in hand.
I plan to spend the next little while playing the game and relaxing. That way we won't accidentally duplicate each other's work. As I play I sometimes find tiny typos and correct those.
I think the spreadsheet is going to be a big help for new players. It's a steep learning curve but the rewards are great.

 

[Kendon]

The English check for recent Achievements is complete.

 

[alexdmn]

Thanks to the developers for their good work, including texting.
I want to create of Ukrainian localization (without particular global plans), but there are several questions:
1) I do it now manually in the xml files, reworking one of the existing languages, but how can I add a new one so that it is determined by the game itself?
2) how the translation process be unified, if when a new version is released, it is difficult for a non-developer to track the changes in the xml files?
3) there is a problem with displaying the Cyrillic alphabet on city banners; I read about the existence of this problem, but did not find a solution to it, can someone tell me how to overcome it

 

[Kendon]

... some raw materials are named the same as bonus resources. Of course, this is not a bug, but sometimes it is confusing when learning the concepts of the game.
English is not my native language, as you can probably see from my messages , so I may be wrong somewhere, but I will offer my version of corrections.

The spreadsheet shows Raw Materials beside Bonus Resources as column headings. In the text below it's usually the same word for individual items, though not every raw material has a corresponding bonus.

Here the Colopedia and the spreadsheet are not so much a language issue as a matter of concept, like the difference between unit and profession. Unit is what a character is; profession is what a character does. Similarly raw materials are what a tile can produce when it's worked; bonus is how much extra that tile can produce from one particular raw material, revealed by the graphics that clicking the lower left wheel on the game map will display on any bonus tiles visible on that map.

Instead of a collective noun, think of “Bonus” as a comparative adjective, specifically "more". If a field has lush grass then the horses don't need to spend all day eating; they have more time for romance and you get lots of little horses. When the ore is high grade there's more metal for the same amount of work. If the soil has perfect minerals to make the right natural fertilizer for flax, the crop is more abundant.

Since it's a concept, meant to add diversity to exploration and production, each language can use its own grammar for yield and bonus. WtP has five language slots, currently occupied by English, German, French, Spanish and Russian.

There have been discussions about programming a matrix that could handle many more languages. I remember there was interest in Hungarian. I wouldn't mind seeing Cree. So far we don't have anything programmed, that I know of, that lets a language be used beyond the five current languages.

 

[alexdmn]

The spreadsheet shows Raw Materials beside Bonus Resources as column headings. In the text below it's usually the same word for individual items, though not every raw material has a corresponding bonus.

Here the Colopedia and the spreadsheet are not so much a language issue as a matter of concept, like the difference between unit and profession. Unit is what a character is; profession is what a character does. Similarly raw materials are what a tile can produce when it's worked; bonus is how much extra that tile can produce from one particular raw material, revealed by the graphics that clicking the lower left wheel on the game map will display on any bonus tiles visible on that map.

Instead of a collective noun, think of “Bonus” as a comparative adjective, specifically "more". If a field has lush grass then the horses don't need to spend all day eating; they have more time for romance and you get lots of little horses. When the ore is high grade there's more metal for the same amount of work. If the soil has perfect minerals to make the right natural fertilizer for flax, the crop is more abundant.

Since it's a concept, meant to add diversity to exploration and production, each language can use its own grammar for yield and bonus. WtP has five language slots, currently occupied by English, German, French, Spanish and Russian.

There have been discussions about programming a matrix that could handle many more languages. I remember there was interest in Hungarian. I wouldn't mind seeing Cree. So far we don't have anything programmed, that I know of, that lets a language be used beyond the five current languages.

Thank you for such a detailed answer, but I understand very well the difference between the terms "Raw Materials", "Bonus Resources", "Terrain Features" and others that affect the resources in the game. I didn't explore other languages because I'm using the English localization, which happens to have the same names for "Raw" and "Bonus". It seems logical to me that barley ("Raw Materials") is obtained from a barley field or plants ("Bonus Resources"), fruit from a fruit tree, peat from a peat bog, not barley from barley, fruit from fruit, and peat from peat. I can't say anything about other languages

 

[Kendon]

Unless there's a serious objection I'm going to change the English for Baked Goods to Provisions. That should reduce confusion over the game strategy issue where provisions (currently baked goods) are used mainly to supply travelling professions.

Other than that one phrase, no change. The concept and code remains the same. Bakers still make provisions in the bake shops. The idea is that their work includes other useful items for long journeys.

The connotation of baked goods creates the unfortunate image of mouldy pies being sold in European ports after a two-week voyage, though of course hardtack is also a baked good. I think one modern problem is that today we go for coffee and see that yesterday's pastry is already discounted: not what you'd take on a three-month excursion into the back country. Provisions, on the other hand, are exactly what you take.

It looks like the original word choice was when the strategy was still uncertain. Some modders were interested in a wide variety of consumer goods, and of course baked goods could be part of that. Other modders wanted prerequisites for professions to add complexity and challenge, and in the end that's what baked goods have turned out to be: provisions.

We English speakers are easily confused. It's clear to me that provisions is the best word for how gameplay has developed. Provisions are central to the early game. The change should make more sense to new players.

I've made the change to provisions in my own mod. There were 22 changes, not that much. I always do them one by one so I don't accidentally affect other languages.

 

[raystuttgart]

Unless there's a serious objection I'm going to change the English for Baked Goods to Provisions.

Yes, please.

 

[Kendon]

I've finished incorporating provisions throughout the English text. The story already has coffee and snacks at the bakery, so adding a larger variety of supplies isn't a big jump.

It feels like an accurate description of how businesses grow. Customers can be demanding. One day the baker decides to offer sandwiches. The next day he's expected to outfit an expedition to the ends of the earth. It's amazing how often business operators manage to do exactly that.

 

[Kendon]

Because of some justified if colourful criticisms of the Colopedia, I'm adjusting the Strategy format in Yields to put the worker, the raw material and the output right at the beginning. Players in a hurry get the structure at the top, and those who want more flavour can keep reading.

Several entries have errors where relationships have changed as the game has evolved, and I've been changing those first.

 

[Kendon]

I've finished writing the Yield and New Yield entries so strategy now begins with the profession and expert associated with each particular yield. The goal is to provide a constant format for new players, so that it's clearer how assigning colonists can turn one yield into another.

@Johan-buret,who's doing the French translation, caught an English typo and then @Nightinggale improved the phrasing, so bit by bit the text is getting better.

The English polish is mostly done for prisoners of war. In particular revolting (utterly disgusting) has been changed to rebelling (fighting against authority).

 

[raystuttgart]

In particular revolting

Looking into the Oxford dictionary it also knows the word "revolt".
(Meaning a local riot / revolt where people rise against their oppressors.)

A "rebellion" is usually something of much larger scale and intends to overthrow a political system.
So speaking of "prisoner revolts" is actually much more correct than speaking of "prisoner rebellions".

The next best term would most likely be "riot", which however is more of a "civil uprest" thus a stage of escalation lower.
"Prisoner riots" would not truly fit as a translation ... as it does not include "breaking free" ... it is more of a violent protest.

I am not really sure how it is in English. Still not really sure why the term "revolt" is wrong.
German however is a very exact language that takes such small differences more serious.

And the absolute best and most exact formulation in German is truly:
"Gefangenenrevolte" --> "prisoner revolt"

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Also all hisotirc articles that I ever found in English spoke of "prisoner revolts" and not "prisoner rebellions".
(As I said, from my understanding of the words rebellion is actually a completely different meaning - as it comes with political intentions of overthrowing a system.)

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Still I will let the Native Speakers translate what sounds best.
Just wondering sometimes about English language ... as it often seems to be quite unprecise.

 

[Kendon]

Imprecise is an understatement, since English is quick to adopt words from other languages.

Meaning also shifts with usage, which is the case here. Originally "revolting" meant exactly what you intended. The problem is that "revolting" is very close to the Spanish word for "totally disgusting" and that's now become the primary meaning in English, with "fighting against the government" a distant second.

Prisoners revolt. There can be a prisoner revolt. We only hit a problem when we use revolting as an adjective.

The connotation in English for "revolting prisoner" is "I see that guy and I just want to throw up," which I don't believe is your intention. As for "rioting", I considered it but like you say it's a bit too small.

"Rebelling" is a bit too big but I decided it's the best of the imperfect choices. I'm sorry about that, but I don't get to create the English language. I just study it. I could live with "rioting" is you prefer that. I use the Webster Collegiate as well as the Oxford dictionary so our text can be mid-Atlantic. Even so when I read how people use English today I adapt my understanding and choice of words, but slowly. I believe the Oxford dictionary does the same thing.

 

[uplink]

This isn`t exactly a bug, but rather an observation regarding a certain change in graphics and corresponding texts.
Master weaver used to be depicted as a female, but that was changed with the new release. There are however several stories\quest choices that regard HER and those don`t really match with the new graphics..

 

[raystuttgart]

Master weaver used to be depicted as a female, but that was changed with the new release.

Do you play "develop"?
Because I think that is fixed there already.

 

[uplink]

Ok, never mind then.
I haven´t upgraded to the develop version yet as I still have a game I would like to finish