Grand Diplomacy

[2metraninja]

It might be just Mavericks trying to fool us all and shaking the fragile ETTT additionally.

How could Sirius sign such a treaty, if they already signed treaty with us? Arent they barring eachother?

 

[damnrunner]

No diplo messages in a while, should we be concerned that folks are talking behind our backs?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Mavs just quit.

It seems like they want to retire to AI or become Sirius's vassal. Or... they are trying to kingmake Sirius into the lead by the same method SANCTA used at the end of the last game. Check the UN thread for details.

This can turn into an everybody quits situation or the game can get reorganized and go on. Hopefully the game gets paused and all this gets resolved in the next day or so.

I guess being in last place all game coupled with their "buddy" Sirius DoWing them was too much (and Civ 5 coming out). All joking aside, I am interested to see how Merlot reacts to this news... they have not commented in the UN yet.

Maybe they were all scared away by the infamous, ferocious, invincible AMAZON General 2metraninja!

 

[2metraninja]

Maybe they were all scared away by the infamous, ferocious, invincible AMAZON General 2metraninja!

Hahah

That's why I intended to keep my appearance in secret, but my fame runs before me and the enemies knew I am coming to separate their souls from their mutilated bodies, they run away in flight

 

[2metraninja]

On the serious side - how you know that they quit and is there a UN tread to follow the discussion and where he is, as I dont see it nowhere.

 

[Calis]

Go to the game tracking thread...

 

[Sommerswerd]

Go to the game tracking thread...

This

Indiansmoke "graciously" offered to play both M&M teams, which would be suicide for us to allow that . He is too good to be allowed two teams to command. I will go ahead and say it... I am scared he would beat all 4 of us if we allowed that... and that would be pretty embarrasing

I cant remember or never noticed, but roughly how many BPT M&M make each? So we can predict from now when they will have key tech.

I cant really read demographics... SilentConfusion was good at this and wideyedwanderer was learning, but both of these AMAZONs are absent for a long time.

Anyone heard from SilCon?

 

[Calis]

It was already rejected.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Some diplomatic announce or note sent to our allies can help point their thoughts to where we want them. Something like "Congrats to you, we are happy that you make war, hurt M&M and take their lands just as we are doing the same. Keep up the good work, we look for the near end of M&M menace with our combined efforts."

Can you please compose something like this SS?

OK I will send the following note to all the allies via PM:

Greetings to all ETTT Allies:

Congrats are in order for the recent successes against the despicable M&M enemies. We are heartened that our allies are turning the tide on Starland as well as on the home islands of the M&Ms. We give thanks to Nike, Goddess of victory, and pray that you continue make war, taking the lands of M&M and restoring the rightful property of the ETTT. We will continue to work towards this goal just as you are doing the same. Keep up the good work, we look forward to the fast-approaching end of M&M menace.

On the tech front, we have completed the bulk of our needed upgrades with the much appreciated help of our allies, and we have returned our efforts toward pursuing new technologies for the mutual benefit of the ETTT. We will have Feudalism in approximately 2 turns, immediately after which, we will begin teching Guilds. As the M&Ms do not yet have Engineering, we are hopeful that armoured mounted AMAZON warriors will assist in finally crushing them once and for all.

It is our understanding that Sirius is researching Printing Press, and we recall that Quatronia has beakers invested into Drama, but we are unsure what our other allies tech plans are. Please share this information at your earliest convenience, so that we may continue to avoid duplicate research.

Sommerswerd, Zenobian Captain

 

[nabaxo]

That note about teching is the most important bit actually. Hope we will get a response from everyone.

 

[2metraninja]

Good work.

 

[Sommerswerd]

That would be ideal, but it will be hard to pull off. More likely is it splits into a 2v2 fight.

Which team do we think would be easiest to isolate? We would gain the most by taking Sirius's land, as they are our closest neighbor. However, by the same logic it would probably be easiest to convince Sirius and CDZ that they should dog-pile on Q. They attack from the flanks while we secure more of central Star. Then with 3 teams left it starts to get tricky. At this point we probably don't want to be the clear strongest team as that would encourage the 2 weaker teams to ally up.

As of right now, the LEAST likely team that we will end up in a 1 on 1 at the end with is Quatronia. That is because we still dont have any special treaties with them.

With CDZ we have the permanent NAP, as well as the cooperative alliance/land sharing agreement against Merlot, so it seems impractical to dump CDZ. With Sirius, our NAP ends in 20 turns, so we need to quickly decide whether we want to extend it or not. The longer we wait to suggest extension, the more likely it is that they will interpret this as intent to sneak attack them (if they havent already). If we are not extending the NAP with Sirius, then we would be foolish not to prepare to be at war with them when the SAP ends in 20 turns. I would be in favor of a full scale invasion to take as much of their home island as possible IF and ONLY IF we are not extending.

However, since we are so far behind in our plans to invade MHI and settle all of Marthaton, it is doubtful that we could finish off Merlot AND completely settle Marthaton AND build a force to invade Sirius in 20 turns. So IMO our only choice is to ask for an extension of the SAP.

They will likely want terms that make it impossible for us to attack them before the other teams are destroyed, so if we extend, be prepared to be yoked to Sirius for the long haul... which may not be that bad, all things considered. Bottom line... with our treaties in place, as things currently stand, it should be easiest to isolate the Q first. We have no special treaties with them, and CDZ already has bad blood with them.

Let's cross that bridge first and worry about how the 2 on 1 shakes out as we watch things develop.

 

[2metraninja]

As of right now, the LEAST likely team that we will end up in a 1 on 1 at the end with is Quatronia. That is because we still dont have any special treaties with them.

Agree.
I also think Q are the best candidate for isolation. They had quarrels with CDZ already, and CDZ and Sirius are our most trusted allies. Also, Sirius are the strongest team overall for now and this tendency is likely to stay valid for the time before M&M are gone.

However, since we are so far behind in our plans to invade MHI and settle all of Marthaton, it is doubtful that we could finish off Merlot AND completely settle Marthaton AND build a force to invade Sirius in 20 turns. So IMO our only choice is to ask for an extension of the SAP.

Agree absolutely. We need this alliance with Sirius. We can only benefit from it.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I moved my thoughts on this (and the previous comment) to this thread from the "Tech Thread" because they are more about diplo, not tech...

I also think Q are the best candidate for isolation. They had quarrels with CDZ already, and CDZ and Sirius are our most trusted allies. Also, Sirius are the strongest team overall for now and this tendency is likely to stay valid for the time before M&M are gone.

I agree (as I said above). Also, we would be foolish to attack either ally before the M&M are completly destroyed, other wise the jilted ally will likely just join M&M, which would be a disaster.

There is still the possibility that the Q realize the situation and will reach out to us ahead of time with some kind of a plan, but for now this seems like the best way forward. these seem like the basic possibilities to me:

Scenario 1 - Extend the SAP and convince CDZ to go after the Q as soon as M&M are destroyed. We promise to help CDZ against the Q in exchange for them turning over the rest of MHI to us as they capture the Q lands. We ask Sirius to stay out of it.

Scenerio 2 - We let the SAP expire (20 turns + 10 turn cooldown) and prepare to invade Sirius home island with enough forces to capture it as soon as the cooldown ends. We convince Q and CDZ to stay out of it. After we take Sirius home island, we take Bode, giving us control of half of the Map and making us the most powerful by far.

Scenario 3 - The only other way we could keep Q included in our plans, would be to get them to agree to attack Sirius with us simultaneously. Q would get to keep Bode, and we would get Sirius Island and Anjennida. We would have to be lightning fast in taking their island, before they could get defenses up. then we sit back and let Q slag it out for Bode. Meanwhile, we get CDZ to attack Q while they are embrolied with fighting Sirius, allowing us to grow and develop while the three other teams fight.

 

[2metraninja]

You are evil, Sommerswerd. Cunning and evil.

I would keep it more secure and stable. But the risky ones are more fun

We need to scout Sirius lands to know if we have a chance at all.

 

[damnrunner]

Would it make sense to start sending some ppies into our allies lands? They likely won't get caught and it would be a good time to put some assets in place for potential future needs.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I have thought about this but I cant think of any way to drop off spies on Sirius home island to get a look at their cities without it being obvious that we are doing it. A Galleon or Caravel casually sailing along their coast will be seen as an obvious spy drop off. Raising espionage points on them is even more aggressive and obvious. Finally, asking for screenshots of their home island would be an obvious red flag that we are considering the possibility of War with them.

So I think that if we want to keep track of Sirius' military power, we will have to do it discreetly by reading demographics. Unfortunately, SilCon was our demographics expert. Although I dont know exactly how to do it, The way it basically works, is that we have to look at the units that they have visible, ie next to Maverick cities, and then look at their demographics score for Soldiers. We subtract the value of the armies we can see from the value total, and that will give us an idea about the strength of their defensive forces. Of course all this is very theoretical... I have no idea what any of the values are.

 

[2metraninja]

I know a lot of those values, but at this stage of the game it is more a guess, rather than real numbers.

 

[damnrunner]

Spies just for the cities on the main star island could still be useful. Any early war against ETTT members would of course also start on the main island and home islands would be the last to go.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I disagree. I think its more likely that a home island would be targeted for invasion first. That is the way to break a team's back