Great Quotes III: Source and Context are Key

Status
Not open for further replies.
Another reason not to order your steak well-done.
"People who prefer their steaks well-done are a godsend. Because overcooking is the best way to cover up anything foul. You serve up the fresh meat to those who want it rare to medium -- well-done, you make sure you use up the ones your boss specifically set aside for that temperature."
-Justin, 5 Disgusting Truths About Every Restaurant (From a Chef)
 
"[R]acists themselves become a “threatened minority” whose free speech must be protected, i.e., they use the prohibition as evidence that racism is a minority position which has to be defended against the multicultural hegemony. Racism can then be articulated as a minority position, a refusal of orthodoxy. In this perverse logic, racism can then be embraced as a form of free speech. We have articulated a new discourse of freedom: as the freedom to be offensive, in which racism becomes an offence that restores our freedom: the story goes, we have worried too much about offending the other, we must get beyond this restriction, which sustains the fantasy that ‘that’ was the worry in the first place. Note here that the other, especially the Muslim subject who is represented as easily offended, becomes the one who causes injury, insofar as it is the Muslim other’s offendability’ that is read as restricting our free speech. The offendable subject ‘gets in the way’ of our freedom. So rather than saying racism is prohibited by the liberal multicultural consensus, under the banner of respect for difference, I would argue that racism is what is protected under the banner of free speech through the appearance of being prohibited.”

- Slavoj Žižek


Wordy, but insightful.
 
"[R]acists themselves become a “threatened minority” whose free speech must be protected, i.e., they use the prohibition as evidence that racism is a minority position which has to be defended against the multicultural hegemony. Racism can then be articulated as a minority position, a refusal of orthodoxy. In this perverse logic, racism can then be embraced as a form of free speech. We have articulated a new discourse of freedom: as the freedom to be offensive, in which racism becomes an offence that restores our freedom: the story goes, we have worried too much about offending the other, we must get beyond this restriction, which sustains the fantasy that ‘that’ was the worry in the first place. Note here that the other, especially the Muslim subject who is represented as easily offended, becomes the one who causes injury, insofar as it is the Muslim other’s offendability’ that is read as restricting our free speech. The offendable subject ‘gets in the way’ of our freedom. So rather than saying racism is prohibited by the liberal multicultural consensus, under the banner of respect for difference, I would argue that racism is what is protected under the banner of free speech through the appearance of being prohibited.”

- Slavoj Žižek


Wordy, but insightful.


That's so deep I need a drink to clear my mind and figure out what just happened.
 
"[R]acists themselves become a “threatened minority” whose free speech must be protected, i.e., they use the prohibition as evidence that racism is a minority position which has to be defended against the multicultural hegemony. Racism can then be articulated as a minority position, a refusal of orthodoxy. In this perverse logic, racism can then be embraced as a form of free speech. We have articulated a new discourse of freedom: as the freedom to be offensive, in which racism becomes an offence that restores our freedom: the story goes, we have worried too much about offending the other, we must get beyond this restriction, which sustains the fantasy that ‘that’ was the worry in the first place. Note here that the other, especially the Muslim subject who is represented as easily offended, becomes the one who causes injury, insofar as it is the Muslim other’s offendability’ that is read as restricting our free speech. The offendable subject ‘gets in the way’ of our freedom. So rather than saying racism is prohibited by the liberal multicultural consensus, under the banner of respect for difference, I would argue that racism is what is protected under the banner of free speech through the appearance of being prohibited.”

- Slavoj Žižek


Wordy, but insightful.

The above does happen. On the other hand the quote is a polemic itself (i mean if you even start your paragraph -in this tone- with 'Racism' etc, it is not like you strive to present a non-polemic).
I do agree that the cartoon stuff (i mean the extremes there, and to more exact those cartoons drawn merely so as to offend and cause issues) are in very bad taste. Moreover it is very infantile to be prone to offend one out of calculation that this person seems easily offended.

The issue of large populations who get ghettoised, though, is not just about this facet. Surely it is positive if one is able to show empathy, but to do so one has to at least not feel threatened, and a sense of threat isn't always there due to the particular group one can focus upon as a representative of that. Eg if a person, native to some euro city, is having loads of issues due to the economy, family-life, unfair attitudes by peers, other misery, then they rarely are able to hold back on morphing some of that into dislike for some 'outsider' group.
Sometimes people are quick to accuse others of racism, and even to attack them for lashing back at outsiders, but at the same time they are lashing out at them. The phenomenon is more dynamic and inherently tied to human misery regardless of cultural (meant as 'national' etc) traits.

In my view for racism to be there there has to exist at least some sort of idea-set in the person according to which another race or races, or all other races etc, inherently have some or many nasty traits, not there in this manner in their own race etc. I find it more plausible that some of those cartoonists indeed are racists, rather than a lot of the crowd who buys into this being racist. I suspect (can't know theoretically, of course) that the latter is not as set in the reason it has.
 
"[R]acists themselves become a “threatened minority” whose free speech must be protected, i.e., they use the prohibition as evidence that racism is a minority position which has to be defended against the multicultural hegemony. Racism can then be articulated as a minority position, a refusal of orthodoxy. In this perverse logic, racism can then be embraced as a form of free speech. We have articulated a new discourse of freedom: as the freedom to be offensive, in which racism becomes an offence that restores our freedom: the story goes, we have worried too much about offending the other, we must get beyond this restriction, which sustains the fantasy that ‘that’ was the worry in the first place. Note here that the other, especially the Muslim subject who is represented as easily offended, becomes the one who causes injury, insofar as it is the Muslim other’s offendability’ that is read as restricting our free speech. The offendable subject ‘gets in the way’ of our freedom. So rather than saying racism is prohibited by the liberal multicultural consensus, under the banner of respect for difference, I would argue that racism is what is protected under the banner of free speech through the appearance of being prohibited.”

- Slavoj Žižek


Wordy, but insightful.

One of those things so obvious when I read it I assume I always knew it this way.

But did I?
 
Well, I'm lost!

Do we permit racism and therefore are directly racist, or do we ostensibly ban racism and therefore are indirectly racist?

Seems like a double-bind to me.
 
Zizek's preferred option is presumably the authentic prohibition of expressions of racism. (Although, I think it's a question of cultural norms, rather than of formal bans.)
 
Ah, Zizek. I'm just reading an interview with him where he criticizes the European approach to multiculturalism and the culture of political correctness which is too afraid to offend anyone.

Zizek: You know, a good test for the threshold of tolerance betwen different cultures are obscene joke. I love them.
Spiegel: I have to ask, seriously ?
Zizek: In the former Yugoslavia every republic had a joke about the others. Montenegrins for example are said to be lazy. There are earthquakes in Montenegro. So, why does a Montenegrin stick his penis in ever hole in the ground and every crevice in the rock ? He is waiting for the next earthquake because he is too lazy to masturbate. Or let's take a jewish joke -they can be wonderfully self deprecating. Have you heard this one ? A Polish-Jewish woman -they're supposed to be especially stoic- is cleaning the tiling. Her husband comes home, sees her on all fours and immediately takes her from behind. After he's done he aks if she has finished too. She replies: No, I still have three rows of tiles left. Without such an exchange of obscenities there is no real contact with each other, just cold respect.
 
:shake:

At any rate 'appreciation of obscene jokes' is not a cultural phenomenon by and large. It is not as if all people in one 'culture' like the same things, moreso to this level of subcategory.
 
:shake:

At any rate 'appreciation of obscene jokes' is not a cultural phenomenon by and large. It is not as if all people in one 'culture' like the same things, moreso to this level of subcategory.

The obscenity is not the point, it's that we shouldn't be afraid to joke about other cultures because of an unspoken (and in it's own way quite bigoted if you ask me) assumption that they are humorless and easily offended. Remember the photo of Spain's basketball team before they went to the Beijing Olympics ?

080813-spain-basketball-hmed-1143p.grid-6x2.jpg


Westerners were "outraged", but the Chinese -(and I mean Chinese, not Americans with Chinese ancestors)- mostly didn't care.

Btw, I just found out that the entire interview is on Der Spiegel's site in English.
 
^That isn't an 'obscene' joke, though. It is mimicking (crudely) eye form. Ie it is rather pointless, not funny, but not offensive by itself either (i have to suppose that people with different eye formation of this kind don't tend to view it as a lower element, and obviously it would be dumb to deem it as such).

Not in the same type as having a 'humorist' claim that palestinians love to have sex with goats, etc. The latter is not harmless, nor meant in good will, nor uttered as a joke. It is quite clearly a dumb statement spoken with the intent to annoy an ethnic group. At best one of that ethnic group could shrug it off as a dumb statement, but it is itself rather sinister.

Not that i claim it is easy to regulate such crap, cause it never is. But it is also not easy to find reasons to allow it without any deterrent. Then again we all know that people in any society can be jerks, and it is not like you can (or should) have laws against being a jerk.
 
I can confirm that all Yugoslav stereotypes are true. Especially about Montenegrins, the reason why their rate of parenthood leaves by men is much higher than of any other neighboring nations is not because they are progressive fathers, but because they are really just that lazy :lol: I could go on with various tidbits like that, but suffice to say if you are mere physical worker there, you are like the lowest of the low. That is the extent of their disdain for labour, especially any tiring one.

Offensive jokes are loved by men both high and low in the region. It's a silly abstraction and generalization of life, people who get their jimmies rustled by them are foreigners who take things way too seriously to have a good laugh. I mean we murdered each other not 20 years ago and you can find a night out today with everyone from Ex-Yu countries joking and drinking themeselves blind with 'offensive' jokes about each other.
 
"The progressive Christian’s error lies in believing that Christianity’s perennial polemic against the rich is an implicit defense of socialist programs."

"Modern man believes he lives amidst a pluralism of opinions, when what prevails today is a stifling unanimity."

Nicolás Gómez Dávila
 
Ah, Zizek. I'm just reading an interview with him where he criticizes the European approach to multiculturalism and the culture of political correctness which is too afraid to offend anyone.

The joke about the Jewish man and his wife is obscene but can scarcely be described as anti-semitic. But portraying all Montenegrins as lazy is casual racism imo, and I make no bones about it.

Back in the day, "Irish" jokes in England were all about how stupid the Irish were. I haven't heard one told in public for maybe 20 years now. I think they rightly went the way of the dinosaur.

All ethnic groups have this other group they consider stupid or lazy. Iirc, the French always thought the Belgiums and Swiss were stupid, while the Corsicans were considered quintessentially lazy.

It all makes me rather uneasy, to be frank. If you've a taste for jokes which portray members of another ethnicity negatively, how can that not be casually racist? And how can that be a good thing?

I like a joke as much as anyone. In fact I like jokes more than anyone, I've learned, since I'll laugh at things which a lot of people find unamusing. But laughing at an Irishman for being Irish and therefore supposedly stupid? It's not nice is it? It's not a nice way to treat one's friends, I think.
 
With racist jokes I think there's a big difference if they are told between friends who share a similar sense of humour and if they are told by I don't know...people who really believe the underlying notion to be true, 100% of the time and place themselves to be somehow superior for it. You know the kind of people.

I'm a really mixed bag of rather unpopular ethnicities for where I live, but I never fail to laugh at jokes that target my peoples, because more often than not, they are based on some truth. Jokes are one thing however and discrimination another.
 
All ethnic groups have this other group they consider stupid or lazy. Iirc, the French always thought the Belgiums and Swiss were stupid, while the Corsicans were considered quintessentially lazy.

We Dutch still make Belgian jokes. The recent Belgian political crisis from a couple of years back was especially a hot-bed for jokes.
 
"Early in the Apollo program, then-NASA administrator, James Webb was asked to testify before Congress about how much the NASA program would cost. [...] At the last minute, sitting at the table before the congressional committee, he decided to double the amount given him by his experts. He told Congress that the Apollo program would cost approximately $25 billion. Apollo cost almost exactly $25 billion. The rule of thumb in calculating the cost of developing space technology [...] is to take the high estimate and double it."
-Joan Johnson-Fresse, p. 59, Space as a Strategic Asset
 
Always multiply your estimates with 3.14 when trying to figure how long it will take something to get done comfortably. Saved my skin more than once and if you finish sooner you feel great. I suppose I'm due a quote I found amusing in context of our dear friends here:

The Kindly Ones (Jonathan Littell)
- Highlight Loc. 6457-93 | Added on Tuesday, March 24, 2015, 06:07 PM


It’s the same Russian autocracy, the same permanent insecurity, the same paranoia of the foreign, the same fundamental inability to govern correctly, the same substitution of terror for the common consensus, and thus for real power, the same unbridled corruption, in other forms, the same incompetence, the same drunkenness. Read the correspondence between Kurbsky and Ivan, read Karamzin, read Custine. The crucial given of your history has never been changed: humiliation, from father to son. Ever since the beginning, but especially since the Mongols, everything humiliates you, and all the politics of your ruling class consists not of correcting this humiliation and its causes, but of hiding it from the rest of the world. Peter’s city is nothing but another Potemkin village: it’s not a window opening onto Europe, but a theater set put up to mask from the West all the poverty and endless filth stretching out behind it. But one can humiliate only those who can be humiliated; and in turn, only the humiliated humiliate. The humiliated of 1917, from Stalin down to the muzhik, have done nothing since then but inflict their fear and their humiliation on others. For in this country of the humiliated, the czar, whatever his strength may be, is powerless, his will is lost in the muddy swamp of his administration, and he is soon reduced, like Peter, to ordering his minions to obey his orders; in front of him people bow, but behind his back, they steal from him or conspire against him; everyone flatters his superiors and oppresses his subordinates, everyone has a slave mentality, raby as you say, and this slave spirit rises to the top; and the greatest slave of all is the czar, who can do nothing against the cowardliness and humiliation of his people of slaves, and who thus, in his powerlessness, kills them, terrorizes them, and humiliates them even more. And every time there’s a real rupture in your history, a real chance to get out of this infernal cycle to begin a new history, you blow it: faced with freedom, the freedom of 1917 you were talking about, everyone, people and leaders alike, recoils and goes to the old tried-and-true methods. The end of the NEP, the declaration of socialism in a single country, is nothing but that. And since hope wasn’t completely extinguished, there had to be purges. The present Great Russianism is only the logical outcome of this process.

The Russian, the eternally humiliated man, can never escape from this humiliation except by identifying himself with the abstract glory of Russia. He may work fifteen hours a day in a freezing factory, eat nothing his entire life but black bread and cabbage, and serve a fat boss who calls himself a Marxist-Leninist but who rides around in a limousine with his high-class hookers and his French Champagne—none of that matters to him, so long as the Third Rome is at hand. And this Third Rome can call itself Christian or communist, it’s not important. As for the factory boss, he will constantly tremble for his position, he will flatter his superior and offer him sumptuous gifts and, if he’s demoted, another one identical to him will be appointed in his place, just as greedy, ignorant, and humiliated, and full of scorn for his workers, because after all he serves a proletarian State. One day, no doubt, the communist façade will disappear, with or without violence. Then we’ll discover that same Russia, intact. If you ever do win this war, you’ll emerge from it more National Socialist and more imperialistic than us, but your socialism, unlike ours, will be nothing but an empty name, and you’ll have nothing but nationalism left to cling to. In Germany, and in the capitalist countries, everyone says communism ruined Russia; but I believe it’s the opposite: it’s Russia that ruined communism. It could have been a fine idea, and who can say what would have happened if the Revolution had taken place in Germany rather than Russia? If it had been led by self-assured Germans, like your friends Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht? For my part, I think it would have been a disaster, since it would have exacerbated our specific conflicts, which National Socialism is trying to resolve. But who knows? What is certain is that having been attempted here, the communist experiment could be nothing but a failure. It’s like a medical experiment conducted in a contaminated environment: the results can go straight in the trash.”—“You are an excellent dialectician, and I congratulate you; you sound like a trained Communist. But I am tired and I am not going to argue with you. In any case, all this is nothing but words. Neither you nor I will see the future you describe.”—“Who knows? You’re a high-ranking Commissar. Maybe we’ll send you to a camp to interrogate you.”—“Don’t play with me,” he replied harshly. “Seats in your planes are much too limited for you to evacuate small fry. I know perfectly well I’ll be shot, in a short while or tomorrow. It doesn’t bother me.” He went on in a cheerful voice: “Do you know the French writer Stendhal? Then you’ll certainly have read this phrase Only a death sentence truly distinguishes a man. It’s the only thing that cannot be bought.” I couldn’t help laughing; he too laughed, but more quietly.
 
I don't know what's crazier: that I mistook that for an online comment, or that contemporary Russian writers proclaim the same sentiment. (The honest ones, anyway.)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom