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Great Wonders Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by CrabHelmet, Aug 14, 2020.

  1. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,917
    Gender:
    Male
    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [6]
    Angkor Wat [15]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [14]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [11]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [16]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [13]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Hanging Gardens [4]
    Hermitage [6]
    Huey Teocalli [7] 10-3. Meme wonder for meme tiles. Lake tiles suck and require this wonder to even be functional. That and the ease of it being snatched makes this a dubious choice at best. It's also not like Military Tactics is a useful tech either.
    Jebel Barkal [5] (4+1) Once in a while, if you lack iron, this can help, plus the extra faith if you didn't build holy sites early also adds up with good placement. Not the best wonder but certainly not the worst.

    Kilwa Kisiwani [20]
    Machu Picchu [13]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [20]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [14]
    Potala Palace [15]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [17]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
    enKage likes this.
  2. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,662
    Location:
    Łódź, PL
    Angkor Wat is kind of invisible wonder. It is so invisible that I bet most of you haven't ever built it. I also overlooked it downvoting GGBridge and Sydney before, while it is even weaker.
    As all very weak wonders it is rather hard to build, because usually AI will build it :p (especially with weird requirement of agueduct)
    As mentioned I am pretty sure many haven't even heard of it, so let me bring its bonuses on table:
    a) +2 faith. LOL is the most I can say
    b) +1 pop/housing in all cities. It is in fact strong bonus, but in Civ4. In civ6 you cannot whip so it means nothing.
    Not a single downvote during first 2 days is one ogf the biggest mysteries of elimination threads
    Obvious -3 for AW.

    Upvote for GreatLib.
    people tend to forget that beside 2 writing slots and +1 great writer and scientist point, it also grants eureka every time great scientist is recruted by other civs. If you don't completely monopolise great scientists or have Korea / Scotland / Mapuche / Maya / some others, it basically means quite a lot of eurekas, including late game eurekas (worth few hundreds of beakers)


    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [6]
    Angkor Wat [12]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [14]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [11]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [16]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Hanging Gardens [4]
    Hermitage [6]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [5]
    Kilwa Kisiwani [20]
    Machu Picchu [13]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [20]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [14]
    Potala Palace [15]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [17]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
  3. Datian

    Datian Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    Messages:
    266
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Paris, France
    I really don't understand the "this wonder is difficult to build because the AI wants it too, especially on deity, so it has to go down." I could say "if the AI wants it so bad, then maybe it's actually good," but we know that it doesn't always make sense.
    Anyway, it shouldn't factor, the use of the wonder once you've built it should be the main point.

    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [6]
    Angkor Wat [12]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [14]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [11]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [16]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Hanging Gardens [4]
    Hermitage [6]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [5]
    Kilwa Kisiwani [20]
    Machu Picchu [14] 13+1 I feel like I have to upvote one of my favourites once again, to compensate. As I said yesterday, a big part of the game is "play the map", and it changes the way you do it, so it's one of the most wondrous wonders.
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [20]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11] 14-3 I build it in most of my games but I really don't like the fact that it's limited to a single city. You'll take the most forlorn and hopeless spot, and count on it to make a power city of a dry outpost, it's super powerful and super limited. I'd rather have it do something to all desert mountains, or oasis.
    Potala Palace [15]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [17]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
  4. cylenalag

    cylenalag Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 11, 2020
    Messages:
    54
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Kilwa Kisiwani [21] (20+1) A very versatile and powerful wonder when you have plenty of suzerainities, which usually isn’t hard given first-meet envoys, quest envoys, Kilwa’s own 3 envoys, Amani tours, etc. +30% suzerain bonuses in one city and +15% to all cities when you have two of the same type is pretty amazing. As another has mentioned it has the potential to be Ruhr+Broadway+Oxford all in one depending on the map. Perfect to magnify a mid-game snowballing. The AI generally doesn’t focus on this wonder on higher difficulties though I have seen at least one exception. Definitely a candidate for some Magnus chops!

    Jebel Barkal [2] (5-3) Iron and faith per turn is nice but by the time I build it I, too, am already graduating to niter. Unless I’m going for a Domination Victory, I generally get Iron Working pretty late in the Classical Era. Also Jebel Barkal doesn’t benefit from Scripture or Simultaneum like my +3-5 Holy Sites enjoy. Jebel Barkal doesn’t give Great Prophet points to snag Work Ethic or Choral Music to further enhance my Holy Sites, while once again not benefiting Jebel Barkal. Don’t get me wrong +20-48 fpt is nice early, though it gets overshadowed quickly in a faith-based approach. AI kinda likes it, though not as quick to build it compared to some wonders like the Great Bath or Stonehenge. This is taking @bbbt ’s adjustments into consideration.

    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [6]
    Angkor Wat [12]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [14]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [11]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [16]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Hanging Gardens [4]
    Hermitage [6]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [2]
    Kilwa Kisiwani [21]

    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [20]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [15]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [17]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
  5. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2020
    Messages:
    414
    Jebel Barkal [3] (2+1) Time to get Jebel Barkal some justice. Some people may think this is about getting iron. No. It's about getting faith. For 400 production you get 20-32 faith (max you can get is 48), way better than a HS-shrine-temple set. Placement is a bit hard to make it affect many cities, but 5-7 is certainly doable.

    Saying Jebel Barkal is bad because you don't need iron is like dissing Golden Gate Bridge because you don't need a bridge - yeah I get that you don't need a bridge but you build that for culture victories, not for moving units around.

    And in case people didn't realize, the maximum number of cities Jebel Barkal (or Colosseum) can affect is actually 12 (many think it's 6 or 7), as shown below. 18 if you consider that cities on different landmass only need to be separated by 2 tiles.


    Ruhr Valley [14] (17-3) I know, I know, people love Ruhr Valley. And there are worse wonder in this list right now. But what does Ruhr Valley do for you? Assuming you got a city with 100 base production, in which 10 from mines and quarries. For 1240 production you get 10 extra production, then +20%, making the total production 132, an increase of 32. But for domination you win before that, for culture and diplomatic victory you don't need that many production, and for science victory you win 50 turns after Industrialization and Ruhr Valley barely pays off at that point. If chopping value doesn't change then Ruhr Valley will always be a "meh".

    Downvoted Országház last time. And it was voted up 3 times to come back. Cannot agree on people's reasoning on that -- if you are into trading diplomatic favors, you can bankrupt AI way before that wonder is even built.


    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [6]
    Angkor Wat [12]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [14]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [11]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [16]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Hanging Gardens [4]
    Hermitage [6]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [3]
    Kilwa Kisiwani [21]
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [20]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [15]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [14]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
    Civ Chemist and Jewelrunna like this.
  6. Dotsworthy

    Dotsworthy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2019
    Messages:
    81
    Gender:
    Male
    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [6]
    Angkor Wat [12]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11] 14 - 1. I rarely build this, while the governer titles are nice, it takes a lot of setup and would be nicer if it actually effected all your cities outside your home continent.
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [11]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [17] 16 + 1. Hugely useful in culture victories and can be that last little kick to snowball your tourism.
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Hanging Gardens [4]
    Hermitage [6]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [3]
    Kilwa Kisiwani [21]
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [20]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [15]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [14]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
  7. monikernemo

    monikernemo Warlord

    Joined:
    May 9, 2020
    Messages:
    232
    Gender:
    Male
    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [6]
    Angkor Wat [12]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [11]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [17]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Hanging Gardens [4]
    Hermitage [3] (6 - 3)
    How is Hermitage still here??!
    Hermitage is just lack luster and suffer from the same issue as Sydney Opera house. Just a waste of production.

    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [4] (3 +1)
    Wanted to upvote Forbidden City initially, but Jebel is in dire straits.

    Jebel Barkar is actually quite powerful,
    4 faith per city within 6 tiles is pretty insane early game. While the theoretical maximum 48 faith is just insane to plan for, I think one can expect at least 20 - 32 FPT which is about two/three holy site with shrine worth of faith. And early faith is powerful because of monumentality GA.

    +6 iron per turn is just the cherry on top, for you to sell it to the AI, or if going on conquest you save black marketeer promotion on Magnus.

    Kilwa Kisiwani [21]
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [20]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [15]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [14]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    hhhhhh likes this.
  8. tetley

    tetley Head tea leaf

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Messages:
    3,211
    Location:
    Igloovik
    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [7] 6+1 I have won Deity games off of this wonder. It just requires a very careful build order. I'm seeing people downvoting it because it appears too late in the game for it to matter, but *NO* wonders even matter at that point. I have had the AI in the game before up and until I completed Amundsen-Scott. Then I pulled away from the nearest AI science-wise and the game was over. My entire late-Modern game can revolve around getting A-S sometimes. I more-or-less treat it like a Victory Condition (i.e. you complete A-S, you might as well have completed the spaceship).
    Angkor Wat [12]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [11]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [17]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Hanging Gardens [4]
    Hermitage [3]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [4]
    Kilwa Kisiwani [21]
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [20]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [15]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [11] [14-3=11] It costs 1240 hammers to build. And what does it give you? Hammers, and less than 1240 of them. It doesn't make mathematical sense.
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
    8housesofelixir and hhhhhh like this.
  9. Hokie Fan

    Hokie Fan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2020
    Messages:
    53
    Gender:
    Male
    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [7]
    Angkor Wat [9] (12-9) I’ve built it a few times, but the bonuses seem underwhelming and I usually want my tiles near aqueducts for IZs. I can’t think of much else to say because the wonder provides a very moderate benefit but is mostly just bland and uninteresting.
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [11]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [17]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Hanging Gardens [4]
    Hermitage [3]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [4] Not an up or down vote, but the 6 iron can generate a fair amount of early gold by selling to the AI. Gold can be hard to come by early and this can be a nice little boost to your economy.
    Kilwa Kisiwani [21]
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [21] (20 + 1) Combined with Pingala, this allows you to claim tons of great people with just one city and a few districts. Not terribly difficult to build either in most games.
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [15]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [11]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
  10. DogeEnricoDandolo

    DogeEnricoDandolo Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Messages:
    397
    Gender:
    Male
    I was the editor that wrote this but if you read carefully, I said that this only applied to the base game, there is another whole paragraph talking about it being a decent wonder from RnF onward.

    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [7]
    Angkor Wat [9]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [11]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [17]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Hanging Gardens [4]
    Hermitage [0] ELIMINATED What is this thing still doing here? Only Eleanor and Kristina can somewhat find a use out of this huge waste of production. 1450 production for 4 slots of arts, give me a break.
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [4]
    Kilwa Kisiwani [22] This Wonder can mean you have a Ruhr Valley and an Oxford University built in EVERY CITY at its maximum potential. And it can grant Culture and Faith in every city if you want it, at a much cheaper price than all of those wonders. And it is not even hard to achieve that on a small map or larger (which the majority of people would play on anyway). Generating envoys and taking away enemy envoys using spies are never easier. And it's unlocked with Machinery, a tech you would want to beeline most of the time anyway. The wording in its description does not do it justice, most people don't even truly know what it does.
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [21]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [15]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [11]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
    xaiviax, 8housesofelixir and hhhhhh like this.
  11. Aurelesk

    Aurelesk Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    307
    Gender:
    Male
    In defense of:

    Hermitage: the Arts put in here do not suffer from the same Artist penalty (addtionnal Art only give 1 culture and 1 tourism), but do not get a theme either. It is a really nice Arts dumpster. Plus: the restriction is kind of soft, as you don't need a district or something convoluted: just a river. Still not good, but you kind of want it in your Pingala city, so the +3 Great Artist point is doubled to +6, and so the 12 Tourism to 24. It works better for France that get double Tourism from Wonders and can milk the Hermitage with some Châteaux around. Is it good? Not really. Fairly niche, but it is not absolutely garbage.

    Ruhr Valley: not a fan either but the Production is not that wasted. With the +15% Production card, the cost of Ruhr Valley drops to 1080 Production, while the bonus Production can be increased with Production cards (so that +32 can be +48 with +50%). Plus, it is a way to convert Production from Great Engineer in some way, even chops as you might not wait Magnus to be in the city forever. Still, I don't see the appeal on this wonder either.

    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [7]
    Angkor Wat [6] (9-3) I need an Aqueduct, something I found myself to build less. I am building it either because the city doesn't have fresh water or as a way to get a huge Industrial Zone / Coal Factory. +1 Population to all current cities is rather weak but the +1 Housing is kind of nice. If it allowed to start new cities with 2 Populations, it could be a little more interesting. I found myself to build it as France only for its Tourism value when not claimed and I can build it in less than 10 turns (it is +10 Tourism in the modern era even if I build it in the modern era).
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [11]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [17]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Hanging Gardens [4]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [4]
    Kilwa Kisiwani [23] A wonder that get stronger when the map get wider (contrary to Oracle: smaller map → less competition → allows you to grab most of the GPP). Not only it is strong, but flexible as well. Probably the best wonder on the game, except if we play on Duel / Tiny, and higher difficulty (AI loves to annex City-State) or get unlucky with no 2 city-states of the same kind.
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [21]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [15]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [11]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
  12. Kmart_Elvis

    Kmart_Elvis King

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2018
    Messages:
    646
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [7]
    Angkor Wat [6]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [11]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [18] (17+1) I always rush for this in every cultural game I play. +2 appeal to all your tiles is powerful. All of your current national parks and seaside resorts will be making more tourism. Then you have all these new spots to add more parks and resorts. And if you have Sphinxes, pairidaezas, city parks, etc. you're going to have breathtaking tiles everywhere. Bull Moose Teddy likes this. If you have Earth Goddess, enjoy the mountains of faith that will be pouring in. Hell, Australia is going to want to build this even if you're not doing CV, since this gives you supercharged campuses.
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Hanging Gardens [1] (4-3) I agree this is kind of a trap. The way Civ VI handles "city growth" is very misleading. 15% growth ain't anything, and you can see that yourself if you want to build this.
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [4]
    Kilwa Kisiwani [23]
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [21]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [15]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [11]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
  13. bbbt

    bbbt Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,250

    Potala Palace [16] 15 + 1 - Diplomacy policy cards are in short supply at the start of the game, but by the time this wonder comes around, there are plenty worth slotting in the extra slot.

    Hanging Gardens [ELIMINATED] 1 - 3 - Sometimes I play on lower levels than usual just for a fun, build all the wonders sort of game. I still don't built the hanging gardens in those games. Housing and amenities are the biggest factors in growth, and this provides neither, except a meager +2 to the city it's in.


    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [7]
    Angkor Wat [6]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [11]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [18]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [4]
    Kilwa Kisiwani [23]
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [21]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [16]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [11]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
  14. TCBB

    TCBB Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2020
    Messages:
    148
    Ruhr Valley [12] (11+1) Of all the wonders, the one I'd least expect to struggle is Ruhr Valley. I'll pose my argument as a response to other points.
    This seems to make sense – until you realise that you have nothing to build instead of Ruhr Valley, and Civ VI doesn't let you store production, ergo, your point doesn't stand. You're spending 1240 hammers now (though in reality, more like 1080 as @Aurelesk said) in order that your future hammers are more effective. It's not a question of 'should I spend 1240 hammers now on Ruhr Valley or on building the Spaceport?', because the two unlock miles away from one another: you're building Ruhr now in order that your future Space infrastructure is much, much quicker.
    This seems very disingenuous. There are way more than 50 turns between Industralization and Science Victory, simply because of how much tech you need to unlock – and even more if you're unlucky with how the future era tech tree pans out. This is all the more true because Industralization is a tech you need to rush if you're doing Science Victory (it is en route for Spaceports, it unlocks Factories & Coal, and it buffs all your mines), meaning you're probably unlocking it comparatively early – and possibly around 100 turns before your eventual victory.

    Angkor Wat [3] (6-3) I felt like downvoting something more interesting, but Angkor Wat is clearly the worst. I remember, I once thought it would be fun to prioritise it as the Khmer. I rushed Aqueducts, placed it in my capital, chopped it out with Magnus – and suddenly found that all my cities were plunged into an amenity shortage. So yeah: if you're not careful, that instant population surge can result in some pretty nasty side effects.

    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [7]
    Angkor Wat [3] (6-3)
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [11]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [18]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [4]
    Kilwa Kisiwani [23]
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [21]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [16]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [12] (11+1)
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
  15. Drivingrevilo

    Drivingrevilo Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2020
    Messages:
    170
    Gender:
    Male
    Colossus [8] (11-3) Okay, we had an initial phase of defending Colossus on the grounds that the Great Lighthouse was even worse. But surely it's back to Colossus-stomping time? You're basically paying a hellovalotta production for a single trader, the other effects being minimal. If it's still there in the Industrial Era waiting to be picked up, then go ahead, have another trader and some era score. But that's hardly the definition of a powerful wonder, and I've personally never bothered to build it early in the game.

    Ruhr Valley [13] (12+1) What the previous said, especially his first point: Ruhr Valley comes at that mid-point in the game when you've already built your essential districts for science victory and have nothing else to build, really, so it's the perfect time to invest into something that will speed up your future space projects. Genuinely, I would put Ruhr Valley in my top 5 wonders, so if people are going to vote it down this early then looks like we've got another Canada on our hands.


    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [7]
    Angkor Wat [3]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [17]
    Colossus [8] (11-3)
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [18]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [4]
    Kilwa Kisiwani [23]
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [21]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [16]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [13] (12+1)
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
    TCBB likes this.
  16. Oberinspektor Derrick

    Oberinspektor Derrick Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2020
    Messages:
    174
    Gender:
    Male
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus 21+1: I love this wonder, especially after last year's buff. I can consistently build it as the AI seems to neglect it. And I WANT a harbour in coastal cities anyway, so either way I'm not risking much if I fail to get it. Whenever I go science or domination, this badboy pays off tremendously, and can even be worth it when going culture/religion if I want a particular GE. Double charges on Sergei Korolev for science victories is just godly, and double charges on James Watt/Nikola Tesla is pretty damn good. And getting another charge of the "wonder-GEs" allows me to consistently snipe later important wonders without breaking a sweat. This wonder is so flexible, and gets so much mileage that it's ridiculous. The added coastal yields are very good, but the extra charge on a GE is what I want this badboy for.
    Colosseum 17-3: This might give me some flak, but I think this wonder is very overrated. Giving it an early downvote because I really don't want to see it in the top 5, even though there are worse wonders on this list right now. Yes you can get some insane early culture, and you will probably be set for amenities for a long time. But, this wonder isn't THAT easy to build. I've found that the AI takes it early about 1/3 of my games, because the AI is stupid enough to get early entertainment complexes for no good reason. While those are good odds in regards to getting the wonder on Immortal/Deity, it comes with a ludicrous opportunity cost. Having to build an entertainment complex WITH an arena built, before even being allowed to start constructing the Colosseum is just ridiculous. I've done it a couple of times thinking I should give this wonder another go (since so many seem to love it), and what ended up happening was that usually I started construction on the arena or just started on the Colosseum, before the Colosseum got sniped by the AI. I don't necessarily mind losing a wonder, but after having invested in an early Entertainment Complex (THE worst early district you can get, bar none) WITH an arena? That leaves me down with a ton of "wasted" production, as well as a wasted district slot in one of my most central core cities. These days I see this wonders more as "a good chance of losing out on a campus/comm. hub/theatre district/holy site and wasting 20+ turns or good chops, with nothing in return if I fail" in what is usually going to be a core city. No thanks, not taking that risk even if there is a good chance that I get it. The drawbacks are potentially worse than the benefit for this one - too high of an opportunity cost, unlike the Mausoleum at Halicarnassos where you want the harbour anyway.


    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [7]
    Angkor Wat [3]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [14]
    Colossus [8]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [18]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [4]
    Kilwa Kisiwani [23]
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [22]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [21]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [16]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [13]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
    Kmart_Elvis and JhGf_123 like this.
  17. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    4,925
    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [7]
    Angkor Wat [3]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [14]
    Colossus [9] (8+1) - I'll step in and defend Colossus a bit. It's not just paying "a hell of a lot of production for a trader". It's also paying for increased trade route capacity. That's a pretty significant bonus imo. Sure, the new SS has devalued it, but looking away from that, it's still quite useful. It's not something I prioritize early game, but often this wonder sits unbuild around Medieval era, and I can build it in about 10 turns or so, which is definitely worth it if I have a harbor that's not surrounded by sea resources on both sides.
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [18]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [1] (3-1) - Time for this to go imo. Not because the bonus is particularly bad - quite on the contrary, the Iron bonus is extremely useful - but in all the games I've ever played, I only got to build this once before the AI took it, so if you actually want to pursue this wonder, you're taking a huge risk. Plus the desert hill requirement often means you'll have to use a scarce actually useful hex in a city that's otherwise likely to suffer from extremely poor yields.
    Kilwa Kisiwani [23]
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [22]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [21]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [16]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [13]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [4]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
    cylenalag likes this.
  18. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet King

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2017
    Messages:
    727
    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [7]
    Angkor Wat [3]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [14]
    Colossus [9]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [18]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [16]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [2]

    Kilwa Kisiwani [23]
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [22]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [21]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [16]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [13]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [1]

    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]

    Surprised to see the Jebel Barkal fall so low. It's actually in a really good spot in the tech tree for Monumentality. I tend to get about 30 Faith per Turn out of it once constructed, which during a Monumentality Golden Age is an extra Settler every 10 turns or so. That's not bad at all; certainly significantly better than the Taj Mahal (completely unecessary, it's not hard to reach Golden Ages) and the Colossus (absolutely exorbitant production for such little benefit; one Trader doesn't compare to roughly 3-4 Settlers).

    Justice for the Jebel Barkal! Experiment with it as a Civ with early UUs/UIs to hit an early Golden Age, it has a good punch. Certainly niche but I think it is decent within that niche. I don't build it if I'm cramped for settling space, or if I don't otherwise have a reasonable faith generation independently, but if I do have settling space, I am faith-oriented, I can get an early Golden Age, and I meet the build requirements and have a good location, I'd definitely have a shot at it.

    I also disagree with @kaspergm - I don't see the AI go for it very often, even on the high difficulties.

    Taj Mahal is just dreadful. If you know where to source Era score properly, this Wonder has no purpose.

    @Datian The reason the AI priorities matter is because if you are trying to build a Wonder an AI beats you there, that's a load of wasted production. Wonders are risky, but the less the AI likes a Wonder, the lower the risk.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
    bbbt likes this.
  19. JhGf_123

    JhGf_123 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2020
    Messages:
    65
    @Oberinspektor Derrick, I'm not downvoting because there are 100% worse options remaining, but I completely agree with you on the Colosseum. Countless times I've started the process of building up to it, only for the AI to get there first – and now I'm left with a useless Entertainment Complex taking up one of my invaluable district slots. More trouble than it's worth, in my opinion.

    Potala Palace [16-3]: I know that extra policy slots are always helpful. But Potala suffers from being inexplicably expensive: 1060 production compared to the normal price of 920 for a Renaissance era wonder. And it does show, Potala taking around 10~15 turns longer to build than Forbidden City even though the latter gives a much better bonus.

    Forbidden City [16+1] See above. Indisputably flexible.


    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [7]
    Angkor Wat [3]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [14]
    Colossus [9]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [18]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [17] [16+1]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [2]
    Kilwa Kisiwani [23]
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [22]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [21]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [13] [16-3]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [13]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [1]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [16]
     
  20. Naeshar

    Naeshar Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2016
    Messages:
    269
    Gender:
    Male
    Jebel Barkal [-1] (2-3) The iron is underwhelming as I quite never have a lack of iron, and there are options to circumvent it. The faith to adjacent is nice, but you are not going to plan cities for this, Colosseum is far more iconic.
    Venetian Arsenal [17] (16+1) usually available as the requirement is limiting; but the naval dominance is assured. The only downside is, that duplicate units form only a fleet, not armada.

    Alhambra [12]
    Amundsen-Scott Research Station [7]
    Angkor Wat [3]
    Apadana [16]
    Big Ben [17]
    Bolshoi Theatre [16]
    Broadway [15]
    Casa de Contratación [11]
    Chichen Itza [15]
    Colosseum [14]
    Colossus [9]
    Cristo Redentor [17]
    Eiffel Tower [18]
    Estádio do Maracanã [6]
    Forbidden City [17]
    Great Library [14]
    Great Zimbabwe [13]
    Hagia Sophia [16]
    Huey Teocalli [7]
    Jebel Barkal [-1] ELIMINATED
    Kilwa Kisiwani [23]
    Machu Picchu [14]
    Mahabodhi Temple [19]
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [22]
    Mont St. Michel [15]
    Oracle [21]
    Országház [15]
    Oxford University [16]
    Petra [11]
    Potala Palace [13]
    Pyramids [23]
    Ruhr Valley [13]
    St. Basil's Cathedral [16]
    Statue of Liberty [17]
    Taj Mahal [1]
    Temple of Artemis [19]
    Terracotta Army [18]
    University of Sankore [13]
    Venetian Arsenal [17]
     
    cylenalag likes this.

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