Greatest traitor in your nations (or anyone else’s) history?

[superisis]

asfar as Nazi friends go... (to be edited when I find my quote)... hehe

 

[Sparta]

Lets not forget that during the 30s there was more than one Westerner who thought Hitler was doing good in rebuilding Germany. And many of these people also agreed with his anti-semitism. Wasn't he 'Times man of the year in '38 or '39?

I'm not disputing your larger point whatsoever, but FWIW, Time magazine claims that their "Man of the Year" award regards only newsworthiness, not the merit of one's actions. There was just a fairly sizeable controversy over their consideration of making Osama Bin Laden last year's man of the year, during which they repeatedly made that claim. For all I know they made that up just to cover the Osama consideration or ignore Hitler's having gotten the award, but just FYI, that's their official stance now. Not that I'm any fan of Time magazine at all regardless...

 

[joycem10]

anyone say Rudolf Hess?

Hess was more of a nut that a traitor. He thought he was going to be able to negotiate a peace with the British to forward Hitlers eventual plans for war with the Russians. He also thought that Hitler really liked the English as a fellow germanic people and that Hitler felt the war between them was a foolish mistake when the real common enemy was Russian Bolshevism.

My vote for my nation, America, has to go to Jefferson Davis. Surprisingly the Confederates seem to get soft treatment here, only one other person mentioning them. Sure Arnold attempted to betray the plans for West Point, but the Confederates actually precipitated the bloodiest war in American history.

My vote for the British would probably be Philby and the Cambridge bunch from the cold war. Although Tostig is a good choice as well.

Quisling and Petain are easy hits for Norway and France.

For Russia could you consider Lenin to be a traitor for overthrowing the Kerensky goverment in the midst of war?

For Japan i think that the treachery of Hideaki during the battle of Sekigahara in which he helped hand victory to Tokugawa and the Eastern Army should get some note.

A final note, how about El Cid for Spain? He fought for the Moors he fought for the Spanish, and then he conquired Valencia to rule on his own.

 

[nonconformist]

That is true. His victories up to then cost very little in terms of human life compared to WW1 and he had also done some amazing things. At that point the Final Solution was not yet underway either.

Lets not forget that during the 30s there was more than one Westerner who thought Hitler was doing good in rebuilding Germany. And many of these people also agreed with his anti-semetism. Wasn't he 'Times man of the year in '38 or '39?

True, but let's not forget the neinzatsgruppen of '39 or 40, or the killing of civilians.

 

[Sims2789]

Ronald Reagan is the biggest traitor to California for what he did at People's Park in the 1969.


From www.wikipedia.com
Bloody Thursday

Police push students down Telegraph Avenue, on May 15th, "Bloody Thursday", 250 Highway Patrol and Berkeley police officers invaded the park at 4:45 a.m. and cleared an 8-block area around the site. As construction of a perimeter fence began, a crowd of 6000 moved towards the park after rallying at nearby Sproul Plaza. Police fired tear gas at the approaching crowd. Protesters threw rocks and bottles. Sheriff Deputies retaliated with double-0 buckshot, blinding one man (Alan Blanshard) and killing another (James Rector).

At least 128 people were seriously injured, but no policemen were hospitalized. That evening, the current Governor, Ronald Reagan, called out the National Guard and banned public assemblies. (Some of the Guardsmen were also Cal students who got the order to report to barracks after returning from protesting). He was quoted on May 15, 1969 as saying "If there has to be a bloodbath, then let's get it over with." For days, the streets of Berkeley were barricaded as National Guard helicopters sprayed tear gas on the protestors. The National Guard occupied the city for weeks afterward...

 

[Aegis]

France betraying Jean de Arc by selling her to the English has always rubbed me the wrong way. That's sort of a reverse traitor.

 

[Sims2789]

France betraying Jean de Arc by selling her to the English has always rubbed me the wrong way. That's sort of a reverse traitor.

It was Burgundy, which was at the time de facto independent, that captured Joan d'Arc and turned her over to the English . The French, however, didn't do much to get her back.

 

[Squonk]

Judas comes to my mind, but also the guy who showed the way around Termopiles to the Persians, and a guy named Ankwicz.
You see, during a partage of Poland, three nations forced gathering the parliament and, with military assistance, it was supposed to accept cession of territory.
The parliament agreed on cession to Russia, but it opposed cession to Prussia by silence. And so, the parliament just seated for hours in complete silence until one of the corrupted parliamentarists, mentioned Ankwicz, told "the silence means approval",
and so it was written, and so it was done.

 

[fe3333au]

Sir John Kerr. He betrayed the confidence of the people inGough Whitlam's government, and dissolved the Whitlam Government on the 11th November 1975, as advised by the leader of the opposition, Malcolm Fraser. That gives 11th November double meaning for Australians, as Remembrance Day and as the anniversary of The Dismissal.

I agree totally agree

BTW Whitlam refered to Fraser as Kerr's Cur

 

[DexterJ]

William Joyce aka Lord Haw Haw anyone? he left Britain before the start of WW2 to made radio broadcasts for the nazis and was hung after the war. but the hanging was a bit dubious because he wasnt a british citizen. he was born in america to irish parents. the arguement used in court was that he had travelled to germany using a british passport.

 

[Aegis]

It was Burgundy, which was at the time de facto independent, that captured Joan d'Arc and turned her over to the English . The French, however, didn't do much to get her back.

Was it not the King of France which orchastrated the whole thing?

 

[Sims2789]

Was it not the King of France which orchastrated the whole thing?

It was? Darn...

 

[Stapel]

There is no obvious Dutch traitor in history. The Dutch nazi leader maybe, but he didn't really betray the nation or so.
One of the most important leaders during the war of independence was beheaded (Johan van Oldenbarnevelt) for treason in 1619 (just a 5 minute walk from my home), but that day is considered the blackest day in Dutch history.
Later, in 1672, another important leader, Johan de Witt, was lynched (just a 6 minute walk from my home), for he was regarded a traitor, but that day is considered the 2nd blackest day in Dutch history.

There must be many traitors, but I can't think of the worst one in Dutch history.

 

[Adler17]

Stapel, be aware that YOU are not lynched or beheaded for treason when you live in such a dangerous area .

Adler

 

[Verbose]

Was it not the King of France which orchastrated the whole thing?

Have you been watching the Besson movie, perchance?

She started to have bad luck (or got overambitious) by 1429 when her siege of Paris failed. And then in 1430 she was captured by the count of Luxemburg at Rouen, and was handed over to his liege lord the duke of Burgundy, who sold her to the English, who burned her as a witch.

And it was the king of France's fault?

There may have been opinions to the effect that the king should have turned heaven and earth upside down to save her already at the time, that he didn't do enough, or hadn't supported her clearly enough, but I'm not sure that he really could have done that much more?

Captured defeated commanders weren't that uncommon in the ME. Only in this case the situation was a bit delicate since it was a young woman, claiming to be divinely inspired, who had been slapping the English silly. ("That race of poor loosers", in the words of Norwegian Antarctic explorer Roald Amundsen.)

The English burned her after all.

 

[Aegis]

Have you been watching the Besson movie, perchance?

She started to have bad luck (or got overambitious) by 1429 when her siege of Paris failed. And then in 1430 she was captured by the count of Luxemburg at Rouen, and was handed over to his liege lord the duke of Burgundy, who sold her to the English, who burned her as a witch.

And it was the king of France's fault?

I am referring to a conversation that I had with a history professor a few years ago. I guess he could be wrong, but he seemed to know what he was talking about. And yes, I saw the movie, which I thought was great. =o)

This does not dilute the fact that the Burgundians were of French heritage, and thus France is still at fault.

 

[privatehudson]

("That race of poor loosers", in the words of Norwegian Antarctic explorer Roald Amundsen.)

Well we do get so little chance to practice it

 

[MangeTonChapeau]

Dunno if Bernadotte has been cited before, but if not then you should have.
After a great start of his military carreer, he began to act strangely on the battlefield and finally he betrayed our fellow Napoleon (who had given him the swedish kingdom), keeping is throne in Sweden as a reward. I think that nowadays swedish monarchy is still coming from it.

 

[privatehudson]

Bernadotte's been adressed before yes

 

[mrtn]

And more correct too...