Greecemod: Not a Byzwank, Promise (EU4 althist mod creation/discussion thread)

[SouthernKing]

Okay, I had an idea regarding the Covenant. Instead of creating an entirely new faith like that, why don't we instead say that it's a "rediscovery" or "rebirth" of an older, more obscure religion like Neoplatonism, Hermeticism, or something like that? It's possible to link any of these with the major Abrahamic religions. If we're willing to again genocide butterflies you could even use Sol Invictus or something.

It's up to you Terran I suppose since it's your idea, but this is my input.

Or, you know what, maybe not Sol Invictus, as Sol Invictus sounds kind of like what Imperial Hellenism seems to be.

In other religion-related ideas, I came up with a new plan: keep Mithraism in India (as the deity did exist in India), but replace it with Manichaeanism in at least parts of Southeast Asia, because I feel it's better that both exist as semi-major religions to make things interesting.

 

[Civ'ed]

Right, I've made all the provinces that are marked for colonization in the Horn empty. The tags for Ajuraan, Mogadishu, Kilwa, etc. still exist, but there's no way they can exist in-game - I've removed all the cores!
I still need to clear out Zimbabwe and Quelimane, as well as figuring out how the Azania/Puntland decisions are going to work.
My idea for each is:

• Admin tech 10 - same as all formables
• Must be Azanian (Isian*, Arabo-Azanian)/Puntlander (Helleno-Somali, Judeo-Somali)**
• Must own the capitals of each nation with cultural tag, which would mean:
  • For AZA:
    1. Sarapion
    2. Nicon
    3. Pyrallax
    4. Raphta
    5. Must also own Madagashqar
  • For PNT:
    1. Mosyllum
    2. Pano
    3. Opone
• Must have cores in said capitals
• Will grant prestige
• Will grant centralization modifier
• Will change tag to AZA/PNT
• Will move capital to Sarapion (AZA) or Mosyllum (PNT)
• Will grant new set of ideas that will incorporate ideas from the constituent nations

* Probably to be changed to Isayan, which is similar to the religion of Isian nations
** Opone (OPN) will also be able to form Puntland, despite being Isian and thus an Azanian nation.
The preferred AI religion for AZA will be Isayan, while the preferred AI religion for PNT will be either Hellenic or Jewish.

I'll be using SK's Minas Tekbir (I needed to make a pun, sorry) up there as the new ETH flag, give it a pretty new color, and change the name to Atiopiyya or somesuch.

I've also, through communication and cooperation with NC, roadmapped a country for the delightful province of Manga. Featuring Gundam, Attack on Titan and "It-it's not like I wanted you to core me anyway".

 

[NinjaCow64]

I've also, through communication and cooperation with NC, roadmapped a country for the delightful province of Manga. Featuring Gundam, Attack on Titan and "It-it's not like I wanted you to core me anyway".

GLORY! If you can make reference to a Queen Tsundere in the coring increase I will be too happy. If you need ideas for it, you know where to find me.

 

[Terran Empress]

If we are making a manga/anime themed nation in Manga I DEMAND that we include Full Metal Alchemist somewhere.

 

[SouthernKing]

Scratch what I said, I have a better idea.

We have four types of Hellenism: Imperial, Western, Eastern, and Reformed. Here's my proposal:
-Imperial -> Imperial Court: The descendant of the late Argean Empire's state cult, which has continued to maintain its bureaucracy long after the fall of the Empire, and was readopted by the Athenian "Emperors" whenever they came along. Standard Hellenism really, stresses divinity of Emperor, maybe some aspects of things like Sol Invictus.
-Western -> Roman Court: I suppose OTL Roman religion basically, maybe some aspects of other EEuropean religious traditions mized in.
-Eastern -> Indo-Seric Court: Hellenized Hinduism at its core, with elements of Jainism, Buddhism, and Chinese traditions mixed in depending on exact location.
-Reformed -> Neoplatonic: My idea is that a student of the old Plato's Academy in Athens ends up reviving the spiritual ideas of Plato's philosophy (which very confuses me but these are things that did exist) as an alternative to the corrupt Imperial Court establishment. This also denies the Emperor's divinity, creating fun religious conflict.

The Imperial vs. Neoplatonic split will use the AOW reformation league mechanics as already suggested.

 

[Civ'ed]

Right
East Africa update added to master mod file, and I think it's safe to say this and the Germanic update make for at least an advancement to 0.003
Things to note:
- Religion icons messed up
- I've included a txt file with province name changes I made. It's pretty late over here and I didn't have time for one-by-one copying.
- ETH is Qonddor, and needs some work
- AZA and PNT need ideas.

 

[NinjaCow64]

I was just thinking about Western/Roman Hellenism, do we actually need that? I thought of the West/East division when I wasn't really sure on the makeup of Europe, but now I think about it there will only be like two nations and some random provinces with said religion. It might be an idea to roll it back into Imperial Court so it's a bit more widespread, allowing Imperial to be a bit more Stronk in Europe and for the reformation to fizzle out less.

 

[Terran Empress]

Ehh, i like the idea of a Roman-Greek division of the Hellenic religion.

I don't think the romans would automatically think that the emperor of their big stompy and possibly rival of a neighbor would be divine. Additionally the Romans were known to adopt new and local Gods into their cult. and overall I think that roman Hellenism is different enough that It should be its own religion instead of the same as the ones in Greek lands.

 

[SouthernKing]

Maybe there were at one point, but now they're basically reduced to southern Italia and maybe a few provinces elsewhere, so there's not that much of a need to keep them separate, and they'd probably be more closely tied with the Greeks by now - we could say they're just more autonomous from Athens than the rest of the Imperials. So I agree with NC. Also because then we can just move all the former *Eastern tech group countries into Imperial/Western and solve the map problem.

 

[NinjaCow64]

Maybe there were at one point, but now they're basically reduced to southern Italia and maybe a few provinces elsewhere, so there's not that much of a need to keep them separate, and they'd probably be more closely tied with the Greeks by now - we could say they're just more autonomous from Athens than the rest of the Imperials. So I agree with NC. Also because then we can just move all the former *Eastern tech group countries into Imperial/Western and solve the map problem.

That's a great idea, allows us to shuffle around the techgroups as well.

Imperial Greek +0% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Western) - Used by the HRE and other Imperial Greek states like Ireland and Rome.

Eastern Greek +20% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Eastern) - Used by nations with Indo-Seric state religion.

Abrahamic +25% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Ottoman) - Used by nations in the Abrahamic Religious Group, except those in Europe.

European +40% Tech Cost (Equivalent to Muslim) - Used by nations in Europe with the Abrahamic or European Religious Groups, with the (maybe) exception of Spain and Muslim Italy.

All other techgroups (i.e Indian, Chinese, Native Ones and Hordes) would be the same. Ofc this would be like a "first draft" version of the Techgroups, which we could completely shake up once we get past the map stage.

 

[Civ'ed]

Question, because I did Eastern Africa and did not pay much attention to tech groups
Where do my things fit? I'm assuming Indo-Seric for Mosyllum and Abrahamic for the rest, but...
The main problem is Isayan, which isn't an abrahamic religion.

 

[Krzowwh]

I think that we should leave out a branch of Buddhism in East Asia (excluding Tibet and Mongolia), and instead have two opposed schools of Taoism, one more theocratic and focused on merits/actions, and one more alchemical/medicinal in nature. This would also give a more clear distinction between the Taoist schools and Shenism.

 

[SouthernKing]

I think that we should leave out a branch of Buddhism in East Asia (excluding Tibet and Mongolia), and instead have two opposed schools of Taoism, one more theocratic and focused on merits/actions, and one more alchemical/medicinal in nature. This would also give a more clear distinction between the Taoist schools and Shenism.

Sure, what would each sect be called?

That now removes Mahayana I guess? (Or should it stay in?) and leaves us with Vajrayana (India, Tibet, and Indian Ocean rim) and either Yavana or Yona depending on which sounds better (Europe, Central Asia)

EDIT: Cived, you managed to do this. How do you get a particular set of NIs to go with a particular country? I can't seem to figure out how.

EDIT2:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

European:
-Insular
-Germanic
-Norse
-Romuva
-Suomensko

American:
-Great Spirit (Dominant religion of Mississippi region from Sioux to Chickasaw at least)
-Longhouse (Used by Iroquois, Huron, Miami, Fox, Sauk, and possibly several others in the area)
-Teotl
-Inti

Hellenic:
-Imperial
-Neoplatonic
-Indo-Seric or Indic or Vedic (locaisation tag should be something other than indo_seric IMO to avoid localisation tag confusion)

Abrahamic (low tolerance of both heretics and heathens)
-Christian
-Ash'arite
-Mu'tazilite ("reformed" Islam)
-Jewish
-Covenant

Indo-Seric (Significantly high tolerance of heretics, significantly lower tolerance of heathens; additionally, if we want to do the secularism/religion meter, we could reappropriate Orthodox Patriarch authority in to a "religious authority" meter for at least some of these):
-Hinduism
-Yavana (Buddhism in Europe and Central Asia; the name comes from a Sanskritization of Ionian, and was used during the Maurya period to refer to the Indo-Greeks, which would be appropriate in this context I think)
-Sarvastivada (Buddhism in Indian Ocean rim)
-Shenist
-Shinto
-Shanzen (theocratic Taoism)
-Wuxing Bagua (alchemical Taoism)

Iranian (low heretic tolerance)
-Zoroastrian
-Manichaean
-Mithraic

Uncategorized:
-Isayan (East African Christian-Buddhist syncretism; analogous to Sikhism)
-Tengri
-West African
-Shamanist
-Animist (Generic paganism for natives or regions that don't warrant separate pagans)

 

[Krzowwh]

Sure, what would each sect be called?

That now removes Mahayana I guess? (Or should it stay in?) and leaves us with Vajrayana (India, Tibet, and Indian Ocean rim) and either Yavana or Yona depending on which sounds better (Europe, Central Asia)

Well, it could be anything, but I'll suggest Shanzhen (善&#30495 Daoism for the former and, per example of the School of Yin Yang and the Lingbao School with its Wufujing, I think simply Wuxing Bagua Daoism for the latter wouldn't be too farfetched.

If you still want some ideas for Buddhist sects, Pudgalavada could be a good contender for the west Indian Ocean area (historically concentrated toward the west of India). Sarvastivada was also quite popular in Central Asia, so you could call Yavana that as well.

 

[Civ'ed]

EDIT: Cived, you managed to do this. How do you get a particular set of NIs to go with a particular country? I can't seem to figure out how.

Right, step-by-step guide - I figured this out by looking at vanilla's NI groups.
Two versions of instruction exist.
1) You used the Country Editing thing

• Open file
• Replace the tag under "trigger" with desired tag
• Profit!

2)

1. Open the file with the NI
2. locate the NI
3. if necessary, add the following text to the list:
   

   trigger = {
           tag = (YOUR TAG GOES HERE)
       }

4. Check to see if it's registered

You can add multiple tags to the trigger, e.g. PRA and IRA or NCN and OPN.
also a quick note, if you're using the editor - leader_fire and leader_shock do nothing. replace them with leader_land_fire/leader_naval_fire and leader_land_shock/leader_naval_shock

 

[SouthernKing]

Well, it could be anything, but I'll suggest Shanzhen (善&#30495 Daoism for the former and, per example of the School of Yin Yang and the Lingbao School with its Wufujing, I think simply Wuxing Bagua Daoism for the latter wouldn't be too farfetched.

If you still want some ideas for Buddhist sects, Pudgalavada could be a good contender for the west Indian Ocean area (historically concentrated toward the west of India). Sarvastivada was also quite popular in Central Asia, so you could call Yavana that as well.

Sure, added to the list in the post above.

Hmm, I'm tempted to use either one of those two for the Indian Ocean one (either works fine), but I kind of want to keep Yavana (or I might actually change it to Yona, still unsure) just so if people decide to look it up they should be able to conclude this is a more Greco-influenced Buddhism of a sort that doesn't exist OTL, which is what I saw it as at least.

Right, step-by-step guide - I figured this out by looking at vanilla's NI groups.
Two versions of instruction exist.
1) You used the Country Editing thing

• Open file
• Replace the tag under "trigger" with desired tag
• Profit!

2)

1. Open the file with the NI
2. locate the NI
3. if necessary, add the following text to the list:
   

   trigger = {
           tag = (YOUR TAG GOES HERE)
       }

4. Check to see if it's registered

You can add multiple tags to the trigger, e.g. PRA and IRA or NCN and OPN.
also a quick note, if you're using the editor - leader_fire and leader_shock do nothing. replace them with leader_land_fire/leader_naval_fire and leader_land_shock/leader_naval_shock

Awesome, thanks

 

[SouthernKing]

In the current github commit I've done half of Greece, bit the game is stalling on Initializing Game (after you've selected a country; not crashing or freezing, just not loading or as if it is taking an exceptionally long time to load)

This may just be an issue on my end but obviously it's pretty big. I suspect it may have something to do with nonexistent history files but I'm not on my comp right now to check. Other than that I really don't know what could be causing it.

But half of Greece is done, so there is that.

 

[Civ'ed]

In the current github commit I've done half of Greece, bit the game is stalling on Initializing Game (after you've selected a country; not crashing or freezing, just not loading or as if it is taking an exceptionally long time to load)

This may just be an issue on my end but obviously it's pretty big. I suspect it may have something to do with nonexistent history files but I'm not on my comp right now to check. Other than that I really don't know what could be causing it.

But half of Greece is done, so there is that.

I...
I'm pretty sure the AI needs the history files. Azania has a history file but doesn't exist in 1444. So does the PLC, the UK, Russia, etc.

 

[SouthernKing]

I am an idiot apparently.

 

[Terran Empress]

I am an idiot apparently.

(just saw that movie last night, it was wunderbar)

Also can some one get me the flag for Allemange from ck2? plz