greek health system collapsing

[holy king]

http://www.naturalnews.com/036257_Greece_economic_collapse_hospitals.html

Greek healthcare system collapses, hospital workers now working without pay

(NaturalNews) The economic situation in Greece is only continuing to worsen, as reports indicate that hospitals and care centers throughout the nation are running completely out of medicines, and many healthcare workers are now voluntarily providing care services without pay.

the article is from summer. by now malaria and the west nile virus as well as tbc are on a significant rise.

seems like the financial aid is allocated to the wrong sectors.
is it the fault of the greeks? or of conditions that come with the financial aid?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

It's not really fair, IMHO, to single out either the Greeks or the bailout packages as single causes of what's going on over there. For one, the Greeks weren't really doing anything the Germans weren't doing wrt to excessive borrowing (well, besides cooking the books to hide problems). No one took the letter of the laws seriously, everyone ran up deficits that were prohibitted by EU treaty.

For another, while the bailouts have been given with harsh conditions, they are far better than the collapse that was inevitable without them.

Further, I'd just like to point out that individual Greeks are at fault for the collapse anymore than individual Americans are for the Wall Street collapse of 2008. You can point the finger at leaders - but the people themselves can't really be faulted for decisions they didn't make, particularly when very bad conditions were withheld from public knowledge by creative accounting.

 

[Yeekim]

You can point the finger at leaders - but the people themselves can't really be faulted for decisions they didn't make, particularly when very bad conditions were withheld from public knowledge by creative accounting.

Too bad those leaders were imposed on the Greek people by evil Reich!

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Too bad those leaders were imposed on the Greek people by evil Reich!

I was talking about the leaders they had before the collapse.

 

[Yeekim]

I was talking about the leaders they had before the collapse.

So was I...

 

[holy king]

guys, i really intended this to be about the humanitarian catastrophis that is looming with the greek health care system collapsing, not who's fault the economic crisis in greece is. ( the answer to this is very obviously goldman sachs)

 

[Terxpahseyton]

A few days ago I got to know a guy whoes parents were from Greece and who still had trong ties to Greece. He told me that in his opinion Greece should be viewed as a kind of developing nation rather than say a part of the Western world.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

guys, i really intended this to be about the humanitarian catastrophis that is looming with the greek health care system collapsing, not who's fault the economic crisis in greece is. ( the answer to this is very obviously goldman sachs)

That's fine and dandy. I don't mean to crash your thread, it's just from this OP, you weren't really making that distinction:

http://www.naturalnews.com/036257_Greece_economic_collapse_hospitals.html



the article is from summer. by now malaria and the west nile virus as well as tbc are on a significant rise.

seems like the financial aid is allocated to the wrong sectors.
is it the fault of the greeks? or of conditions that come with the financial aid?

Plus, it really is difficult and possibly pointless to try and disentangle the healthcare crisis from the overall economic collapse.

 

[Winner]

Not surprising. Health care is very expensive and most dependent on stuff that needs to be imported from abroad.

If the Greeks can't maintain even basic functions of the state (yes Americans, in Europe this means providing health care for people ), they're even more screwed than I thought.

 

[Leoreth]

The Greek state is incapable of properly collecting taxes (I recall at least the new home ownership tax that was created in response to the crisis had to be collected through the electricity bills of state owned energy companies - which is troubling on so many levels), so this is no surprise to me.

 

[JohnRM]

Not surprising. Health care is very expensive and most dependent on stuff that needs to be imported from abroad.

If the Greeks can't maintain even basic functions of the state (yes Americans, in Europe this means providing health care for people ), they're even more screwed than I thought.

This American, and many more, would not disagree.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

It's really a shame at all the suffering going on in Greece and the unwillingness of the rest of the EU to really fix the problem. Watching the EU handle the crisis is like watching a surgeon put a bandaid on a gushing wound.

Though the rioting and destruction of property don't help make the Greek case much.

 

[Rashiminos]

Title Change:

greek health systemce collapsing

 

[Winner]

It's really a shame at all the suffering going on in Greece and the unwillingness of the rest of the EU to really fix the problem.

An how should it do that, you reckon? Sorry but we have no federal government with the power to storm in and whip the Greeks into taking administration of their state seriously. The failings which have got Greece into this mess are 90% of its own making.

We can keep them afloat with additional bailouts, but this understandably isn't very popular with the electorate. I mean, if Greece was showing good progress like Ireland or Latvia, nobody would object against lending them more money (at least not very loudly). But as it looks now, Greece is a basket case of a country that's barely functioning - attempting serious reforms there is like teaching computer skills to someone who can barely read, if you understand what I mean. People are understandably very afraid that throwing more money into that black hole will accomplish nothing and only undermine the ability of the EU to help countries more deserving of help.

Watching the EU handle the crisis is like watching a surgeon put a bandaid on a gushing wound.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

 

[ace99]

At this point what is the prospect of this government falling, and a new possibly Syriza government pulling Greece out of the Euro?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

An how should it do that, you reckon? Sorry but we have no federal government with the power to storm in and whip the Greeks into taking administration of their state seriously. The failings which have got Greece into this mess are 90% of its own making.

This is exactly what I think Europe should do now. I my opinion, it's inevitable that the nations of Europe will federalize and hand more power over to Brussels. This crisis, IMO, is the catalyst for that. I don't see how Europe can avoid federalization in the long run and not face a future crisis that echos the current one. They will be different, for sure, but essentially I think Europe will be having the same problems until a more centralized system emerges.

 

[Winner]

This is exactly what I think Europe should do now. I my opinion, it's inevitable that the nations of Europe will federalize and hand more power over to Brussels. This crisis, IMO, is the catalyst for that. I don't see how Europe can avoid federalization in the long run and not face a future crisis that echos the current one. They will be different, for sure, but essentially I think Europe will be having the same problems until a more centralized system emerges.

Well, yes, but it won't help us *here* and *now*. I fear Greece is a wake up call and a cautionary tale which we cannot help at this point, not unless the whole nation goes through some sort of a catharsis and pulls itself together.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Well, yes, but it won't help us *here* and *now*. I fear Greece is a wake up call and a cautionary tale which we cannot help at this point, not unless the whole nation goes through some sort of a catharsis and pulls itself together.

Crash-course Federalization?

Yeah I know it's not realistic for the here and now. I just don't have any other solutions other than Germany shelling out even more cash to buy time while they try and fix the fundamental problems.

It seems that the lifeline that has been given to Greece is so short and restrictive it's become a bit of a leash and doesn't quite give them enough breathing space or time to fix things.

But again, they aren't exactly taking charge either.

 

[Winner]

Yeah I know it's not realistic for the here and now. I just don't have any other solutions other than Germany shelling out even more cash to buy time while they try and fix the fundamental problems.

It seems that the lifeline that has been given to Greece is so short and restrictive it's become a bit of a leash and doesn't quite give them enough breathing space or time to fix things.

But again, they aren't exactly taking charge either.

So what should the EU do? Give them another hundred billion €uros and tell them "oh, don't worry about austerity, just carry on as usual, spend it all on welfare and get into even bigger debt"? What do you think voters in Germany or the Netherlands - countries which are facing their own problems with the economy - would say to that?

To many in the Eurozone, Greece looks like an addict. As you know, you can only cure an addict when the addict has made the decision to stop using. Giving an addict a shelter and money with no strings attached won't help him, it will only enable his self-destructive behaviour.

The problem here is that nobody believes that Greece has made up its mind to stop using.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

So what should the EU do? Give them another hundred billion €uros and tell them "oh, don't worry about austerity, just carry on as usual, spend it all on welfare and get into even bigger debt"? What do you think voters in Germany or the Netherlands - countries which are facing their own problems with the economy - would say to that?

To many in the Eurozone, Greece looks like an addict. As you know, you can only cure an addict when the addict has made the decision to stop using. Giving an addict a shelter and money with no strings attached won't help him, it will only enable his self-destructive behaviour.

The problem here is that nobody believes that Greece has made up its mind to stop using.

Honestly, I'd give them another hundred billion Euros and force them to accept European wide control of many of their governmental functions until a path out of the crisis has been found and significant progress has been made.

This is extremely unrealistic and won't happen, I know. I just don't have any better solutions.

It seems to me that the EU is currently experiencing some of the problems the US had with the Articles of Confederaton (the pre-Constitution constitution). We solved the basic problems by agreeing that the individual States were really just states and had to give up many independent functions and sovereignty.

I don't think Europe is ready for this, but that's all I got.