Ground Zero

[Ziggy Stardust]

A while ago I was watching Penn and Teller Ground Zero.

Now I'm not an American, but this goes beyond borders and this pissed me off severely.

If you're not familiar with the show, be warned there's a lot of profanity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoUePURI4WA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qKNATLtZI0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY20ITZ47lo&feature=related

And I was wondering what is happening. Are they still going through with their inane plan to build the museum below ground? Is there finally a design designed by a professional designer for the new WTC or Freedom Tower or whatever they label it? Have the families of people being slaughtered been able to stop the lunacy?

It's been almost 8 years now ... you'd think there be some progress.

 

[QuoVadisNation]

Most of the progress has been underground with subway construction*. But I really don't think discussing what kind of museum is appropriate is really all that relevant. Yeah, I sympathize with the families for sure but it's not necessary to dictate an entire museum or building to their every whim. It's not their building.


* = wikipedia has a good synopsis of what's been going on construction wise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_World_Trade_Center#Construction_history

 

[warpus]

If I were a New Yorker, I'd be embarassed about the slow progress of this project.

Things got built faster in communist Poland.

 

[GoodGame]

Wikipedia says the Freedomtower is projected for 2011.

 

[Theige]

Wikipedia says the Freedomtower is projected for 2011.

Topping out in 2011, ready for occupancy in 2013.

They're in no rush, there is a relative glut of office space in Manhattan right now.

 

[Theige]

If I were a New Yorker, I'd be embarassed about the slow progress of this project.

Things got built faster in communist Poland.

Its a little embarrassing, but its a highly complicated project.

- 6 new towers (one was completed in 2006), the Sept. 11 memorial & museum, and the new WTC public transit hub which will be much larger than the old one

 

[GoodGame]

Topping out in 2011, ready for occupancy in 2013.

They're in no rush, there is a relative glut of office space in Manhattan right now.

Yeah the economy.

 

[Formaldehyde]

They're in no rush, there is a relative glut of office space in Manhattan right now.

I think that about sums it up.

I usually like the P&T BS shows but this one rang a bit hollow.

 

[scherbchen]

I kind of liked the idea of merely rebuilding the towers as they were, aesthetics aside.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I usually like the P&T BS shows but this one rang a bit hollow.

I must stress that the P&T show was not posted as a source, they themselves admit they are far from reliable, but I don't see much progress since then. You never hear anything about it. That's why I wanted to know, has anything been done yet? Theige might be cynical but right. But has there been a glut of office space for 8 years? And is that all it is? Commercial considerations.

Now I might be a naïve gullible romantic, but that's just cold

 

[RalofTyr]

The P&T show did have a fallacy or two in it. They used a fire fighter as an appeal to authority and a but of emotion to discredit conspiracy theorists that the tower was brought down by explosive charges. Like a firefighter is an engineering expert that can tell if a building was brought down by an impact or explosives.

 

[uppi]

The P&T show did have a fallacy or two in it. They used a fire fighter as an appeal to authority and a but of emotion to discredit conspiracy theorists that the tower was brought down by explosive charges. Like a firefighter is an engineering expert that can tell if a building was brought down by an impact or explosives.

But fire did have a large part in the collapsing, and I'd expect a firefighter to have some knowledge about fire. At least more than your random conspiracy nut on the internet.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I would prefer they leave it as a park rather than rebuilding.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Wait, what? Conspiracy?

That's isle 12, this is 10.

 

[Azale]

The P&T show did have a fallacy or two in it. They used a fire fighter as an appeal to authority and a but of emotion to discredit conspiracy theorists that the tower was brought down by explosive charges. Like a firefighter is an engineering expert that can tell if a building was brought down by an impact or explosives.

Yea but the 9/11 conspiracy theories are one big fallacy because they are stupid.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I must stress that the P&T show was not posted as a source, they themselves admit they are far from reliable, but I don't see much progress since then. You never hear anything about it. That's why I wanted to know, has anything been done yet? Theige might be cynical but right. But has there been a glut of office space for 8 years? And is that all it is? Commercial considerations.

There hasn't been a lot of progress due to a number of factors. The glut of commercial real estate in Manhattan at the moment obviously has a lot to do with it. If there was an actual economic need for another WTC complex, I'm sure it would have been at least started by now, if not already completely. And economics is only part of the reason. It is political hot potato. Every time there has been a proposed design, it always gets knocked down for a variety of reasons. Some of them were presented in the P&T piece. Others weren't.

The people in NYC hear about the project and the politics all the time. Others, not so much. But even in its present form, it is still a memorial to the dead. I think it is still one of the most visited sites in all of Manhattan.

 

[warpus]

I thought that a big reason behind the slow progress was the constant bickering between the various groups involved (the people who own the land, who used to own office space, the mayor, whoever else, etc.)

 

[Theige]

I thought that a big reason behind the slow progress was the constant bickering between the various groups involved (the people who own the land, who used to own office space, the mayor, whoever else, etc.)

It was delayed from 2004 - 2006, after the first symbolic cornerstone was placed, because of stupid disputes, and not being able to agree on a final design. (They also redesigned the floor level substantially to have better security)

Since then its been slow going just because it was the most difficult part.. the buildings go 8 stories underground i believe. WTC 1 is also going to be the most indestructible building on the planet, the thing is a relative beast as far as being able to blow it up.

 

[RalofTyr]

Why are they called the Freedom Towers? That's lame. My freedom wasn't stolen that day. It was after the Patriot Act was passed.

Say, if they're going to call it Freedom Towers, then the square should be Patriot Square; with a plaque reminding us of all the freedoms we gave up to feel free.

Yea but the 9/11 conspiracy theories are one big fallacy because they are stupid.

Are you suggesting 9/11 wasn't a result of Cthulhu manipulation?

You'll be eaten last.

 

[Shylock]

I thought that a big reason behind the slow progress was the constant bickering between the various groups involved (the people who own the land, who used to own office space, the mayor, whoever else, etc.)

Yep, everyone and their dog wants to get their two cents in and firmly believe their idea is good and everyone else is a stupid moron whose idea sucks.


I think they should just leave everything as it is now, construction equipment included. Leave it as a monument to bureaucratic bungling and the giant dogpile known as politics.