Guide to NESing!

das said:
Why just me? NK and Panda perfectly qualify as well. As do the others, but they don't seem to be carrying out their patriotic duty of visiting the althist thread regularily...

Because you seem the most active :D And quite knowledgeable. Or maybe I'll just post something in the althis thread... once I get something prepared. I have a lot to read up on about the political landscape at the time. Not to mention how the other European nations looked at Cromwells regime.
 
Then you have to decide on how you will increase the "world levels"

Will they just increase overtime? The mod would have to decide which countries are growing faster then others.

Do they increase my just investing some sort of points or economies into it? That seems a bit illogical, and sort of against the whole point of making the world levels in the first place.

I like the idea, and would like to see something like this in a future NES.
 
Well, I will work on this. I'm still a bit undecided if it's best to make a fresh world start of do it althis. I've read most of the old jNES (prequel to the one I'm in) and several others to get an idea of all this.

I do think I could handle one already, but I want to have everything thought well through first and pick up just a bit more experience. Fortunately, having taught history before and studied it I do have soem notions on how to make it work and can pull on other experiences from my youth as both player and gamesmaster in various role playing games.

I'll put up a thread at some point of time, most likely around the holidays for prewiev and discussion.
 
Not to mention how the other European nations looked at Cromwells regime.

Well, thankfully the English Civil War ended in 1648, just at the same time as the Thirty Years War, so it shoudln't be too hard to get information on Europe in that exact date. If you need any help, you can ask me for it as I am even now working on an althist with a 17th century PoD and made a lot of other altihsts in that time as well in the past.
 
das said:
Well, thankfully the English Civil War ended in 1648, just at the same time as the Thirty Years War, so it shoudln't be too hard to get information on Europe in that exact date. If you need any help, you can ask me for it as I am even now working on an althist with a 17th century PoD and made a lot of other altihsts in that time as well in the past.

True and it gives me a nice starting point. I'm working on some idea that Charles I makes it to Boston. An English force sent after him after quelling Scotland, Wales and Ireland, but is defeated. This leads to France, fighting the Fronde, recognising this New England. Result of this is a deterioration of Anglo-French relations meaning that they will not ally against Spain and Dunkirk will not fall.

And that is about as far as I've gotten :p With the King still alive there will not be a Charles II in England after Cromwells death. But I need to do some more thinking on it all.
 
Charles I makes it to Boston.

The problem is, Boston's governor and Puritan population consisted almost solely of anti-Royalists, some of whom even bothered to travel back to England to fight AGAINST the King. The PoD will either require a different colonization of New England, either the earlier appearence of the Carolina colony, to where the King might flee.

Nice idea though.
 
Harleqin said:
Well, I will work on this. I'm still a bit undecided if it's best to make a fresh world start of do it althis. I've read most of the old jNES (prequel to the one I'm in) and several others to get an idea of all this.

I do think I could handle one already, but I want to have everything thought well through first and pick up just a bit more experience. Fortunately, having taught history before and studied it I do have soem notions on how to make it work and can pull on other experiences from my youth as both player and gamesmaster in various role playing games.

I'll put up a thread at some point of time, most likely around the holidays for prewiev and discussion.

Well, you must decide on whether you want to use rules from the old NESs (example is the stjnes4 which you read, which is years old), or rules used by NES's nowadays (das's nes's and more). For me its easier to use the more simplistic, yet unrealistic rules in order that I can update more often (3 or 4 times a week).

Look forward to it harleqin.
 
Jason The King said:
Then you have to decide on how you will increase the "world levels"

Will they just increase overtime? The mod would have to decide which countries are growing faster then others.

Do they increase my just investing some sort of points or economies into it? That seems a bit illogical, and sort of against the whole point of making the world levels in the first place.
I thought that it would be fully mod controlled stat, and player couldn't grow it directly. Undirectly it would be possible, like with new farmlands and such.
 
For me its easier to use the more simplistic, yet unrealistic rules in order that I can update more often (3 or 4 times a week).

Same here mostly, though 3 or 4 times a week is something only you and EQ can do nowadays. The more gross irrealisms could be dealt with by the mod himself outside of the rules (i.e. economy collapsing around nations that are raising an army that is too large for them, etc).
 
das said:
As do the others, but they don't seem to be carrying out their patriotic duty of visiting the althist thread regularily...

I don't make any comments as long as the alt-hist doesn't make a ruination of China :p You caucasians have no understanding of China and her glory ;)
 
I don't make any comments as long as the alt-hist doesn't make a ruination of China You caucasians have no understanding of China and her glory

Am curious - are there any REAL Caucasians here (not in the twisted Western race-based sense; btw, rather ironic that in Russian slang, "blacks" are rather more often Armenians rather than Africans...)?
 
Jason The King said:
Then you have to decide on how you will increase the "world levels"

Will they just increase overtime? The mod would have to decide which countries are growing faster then others.

Do they increase my just investing some sort of points or economies into it? That seems a bit illogical, and sort of against the whole point of making the world levels in the first place.

I like the idea, and would like to see something like this in a future NES.

I say this mod buisness. Player should have minimal influence.
 
Das, how did your experiement with centralization in ITNES go? I'm doing quite a bit of thinking on it, but on effects of changing it and how the choices of players in dealing with new regions will impact on it.

Say, that one player is a heavily centralized Empire and takes two new provinces in a war. He decides to appoint governors to them giving them quite a bit of freedom, but still being required to follow directives from him. That would change it to a Unitary State.
On the other hand he could allow the governors the right to pass local laws, but still be answerable to him. Then we'd look more at a Tight Federation.

While trying to influence the level of centralization by gathering more power himself or taking it from others to delegate to other most definately would cause disruption.

Incorporating new provinces and thus changing the centralization shouldn't cause too much disruption in his nation. Most likely because it allows him to appoint a lot of people into positions where they will be happy (or maybe the troublemakers are dead ;) )whereas they would be most unhappy if the territory isn't expanded and he tries to alter the distribution of power. New lands mean new opportunities. Of course, keeping a tight leash on new provinces is a sure way to make them rebel :lol:

The idea is brilliant, but it seems a bit difficult to make to work in praksis. Just in my small nation there were plenty of troubles when the king tried to alter the centralization level.

What are your experiences with using centralization? Any good advice you can give on it?

Hmm, I hope you can make sense of my ramblings. I'm a bit tired and have re-written several passages to make them make more sense. I might have accomplished the opposite though. :oops:
 
Das, how did your experiement with centralization in ITNES go?

It didn't prove to be enough of a factor, apart from those times nations lost capitals (Bactrasha) or fell apart (Tumasek League). Maybe I should have less levels and make changing them even harder.

Incorporating new provinces and thus changing the centralization shouldn't cause too much disruption in his nation.

It usually does. USA in its early days nearly fell apart on those two issues; much of 15th-17th Century European wars were caused by the struggle of centralizing and decentralizing forces.

Of course, keeping a tight leash on new provinces is a sure way to make them rebel

And not keeping it is a sure way to make it comparatively easy for them to rebel if they so please. ;)

Just in my small nation there were plenty of troubles when the king tried to alter the centralization level.

I get the impression that when most of Denmark's centralization criseses took place, it wasn't exactly a small nation. ;)
 
Denmarks problems has always come mainly from the fact that either the rules has been incompetent, the council fragmented or from the lack of agreement between ruler and council :)

You're right with the US of course. I completely forgot that issue. I will need to think some more on it. Right now I'm trying to get my head around some way of introducing military upkeep, but in such a way that it will only be a problem for heavily militarised nations. Finding the right balance between too simple and too realistic/complicated is hard :)
 
I'm trying to get my head around some way of introducing military upkeep, but in such a way that it will only be a problem for heavily militarised nations.

If a nation has a huge standing army, it should start losing eco. If that army isn't doing anything at all, it will also start losing confidence.
 
das said:
If a nation has a huge standing army, it should start losing eco. If that army isn't doing anything at all, it will also start losing confidence.

Yeah, but the point is to figure out when the army is too big. I will do population as a number. Let's say your population is Quite Large....now, how much should that then be able to support?

It will of course change depending on the age of the game. A modern nation might be able to sustain more than one in another time period. Since I won't do military as a word it's a little more complicated, but I think I will make a table. If you're in the Ancient Age for example, then a population that is large can support say 10,000 troops. For each 2,000 troops raised above this number it will cost 1 spending point per turn to maintain. This is just an example. I'm working on it and has some ideas. Making a table for each time period wouldn't be too much work.

Oh, and yeah, I'm working on something where the stronger the economy, the more you can do, but it will be hard to change outside of events.
 
What is "later", Gelion?
 
2 hours..... right about before the NEW YEARS.....
 
The guide is not done, but I still want to post whatever I've got, possibly for comments, possibly just to see how it would look. Here we go:

GUIDE TO NESSING

Contents:
<contents go here>

Guide to NESing

0. Authors Note

What is this guide for? Why was it written? To introduce people to the world of NESing the world of creative writers who enjoy history, learning and making it. If you are reading it, chances are you’ve seen a NESing game and want to learn more about the concept and how to NES. Well this is what the guide is for. After reading it you will know a lot more about NESing, how its played, made and most importantly why people enjoy NESing. If you like history, communicating with people from many cultures and creative writing you’ve hit the right place. NESing is not just a game – it is a way of life.

This guide was designed with two ideas in mind. One was to help new players to get involved with the NESing that we have at Civfanatics Forum. The other was to help the people who enjoy NESing start games at their own forums. NES is a fun concept suitable for any forum with interest in story-writing, history (politics) and role-playing. If you want your forum to have NES games – this guide will help you set them up. And so we commence…..

1. Introduction

What is NESing? This question has no short answer; however a short response should be nevertheless tried. A NES is an Internet Forum game originating from Civfanatics Forum. “NES” is a “Never Ending Story” that started out when posters wrote stories about possible history of the world. It wasn’t a “game of history” at the start, however after 4 years it has developed into a very flexible concept suitable for many historical and non-historical settings allowing people to play in a great number of different universes.

NESing is fun in a number of ways. Firstly it is a way to interact with other people. NESing joins people of certain character together and chances are if you like NESing you will meet a lot of people you will like too. NESing unites people who are interested in history (alternative or real), governing (nations), writing stories, politics, commanding armies (strategically and personally), geography, role-playing, making up new worlds and discovering them, diplomats, merchants… I think you get the idea. NESing began at forums related to Civilization game series. If you like Civilization you will most certainly like to NES.

NESing also brushes up your skills in a lot of ways: you will be writing stories (if you like it), reviewing military strategies, learning about new nations and possibly quite a few words in foreign languages and learning how to manage your country well as a diplomat and a ruler.

Lastly NESing is just fun to do as players shape the history of the world through their actions. It is very satisfying to see your nation rise from the ashes of civil war and foreign domination to a world power affecting the whole of mankind.

This guide was prepared by us NESers, with the purpose to introduce you to the world of NESing. After reading it you will not be an expert, but you will certainly not be a newbie.

From personal experience I can say that if you are already interested in what NESing deals with it may be hard to find places where these games actually take place. If you found this guide, look no more – you will soon immerse in a world of making history. I’ve been looking for something close to NESes for over 3 years on the net and I was happy to find it on CFC. Hopefully you too will like the concept and become a NESer like the rest of us.


2. What is a NES?

A NES is “Never Ending Story”. For history of the concept go to section 6. For game concept – read on!


2.1 The Basic Concept

A NES is essentially a simulation of the real life world. Although NESes normally tend to simulate certain historic periods on Earth any setup that the players find interesting is possible. A NES can be about anything as long as the game structure remains the same.

The best analogy to NES that you will certainly recognize is a Dungeon Keeper game. Over there you have a “keeper” who presents players with challenges and coordinates their actions. NESes work on the same bases.

In a very basic format NESes have the following structure. A NES is a game run by a mod, a “dungeon keeper”, who coordinates the game. A mod will accept players into the game and make sure that their actions are not ruining the game and fit into the game environment. Players are what makes the game run. In a typical game (let’s take it as an example) players interact with each other as heads of state. They write stories about their nations, initiate in diplomacy, fight wars and rule their country. The mod keeps a certain “score” of their activities recorded under stats (statistic). Stats represent the player’s achievements. Stats normally include: country name, player name (for reference), domestic structure (type of government, happiness level, economy level, domestic projects, technologies and other similar things), and the strength of the armed forces. NESes run in periods from one update to the other. Before the update players write orders where they, well, give orders to their nation. The mod collects the orders by a certain date and writes an update. An update is a story written by a mod in a form of “world news” informing the players on what happened in the world. Basing on that story the mod will then update the player’s stats (and thus the state of the world). Mods reserve the right to delete or change anything they find unbalancing the game (like nuclear weapons research in the dark ages for example) or unrealistic in the game world (like a communist revolution in Britain in 1700’s). Rules are not to be forgotten. Rules are regulations written by a mod to help players understand the game mechanics and what is possible for them to do. Rules also include the information about stats to help the players. Rules are to be respected by all and especially the mod. All information about a game is generally held at the first page of the game thread. NESes also generally posses a map which is a graphical representation of the game’s progress.

NOTE: NESes were designed in an internet forum format and are likely to remain like that for a long time.


2.2 Types of NES:

NESes themselves are classified into types according to their mechanics, most importantly game rules. Here is an overview of NES types:

Traditional – Stories are a main focus of this NES; sometimes it may even lack a mod. This type of NES is more about writing “the Annals of History”, as the main goal of this type of NES is write good stories about the world development and have fun. Traditional NESes could have basic player statistics and map (if a mod is present). Conflicts between players might arise if they forget the main goal.

Story Based – this type of NES is more widespread. While the players focus on stories a great deal, the stats determine a lot. Mods play a greater role in this type of NES and have to watch out for unrealistic behavior by players. This type of NES can be played both for fun and to “win” i.e. achieve your nations superiority.

Stat Based – NESes are more difficult to make and to run. In this type of NES the mod has normally worked out your every possible move, any structure you can build, army you can raise, projects you can make. While stories are still welcome they are less flexible and most of the game revolves around players interacting with each other with a goal to win the game. All (or most) of what the player owns is recorded in the stats and rules are normally quite long.

All the above NESes can be set in any historical period (real or alternative history) and are broadly called “Normal NESes”. “Normal NESes” in reality vary between the level that both stats and stories play in a game.

There are also certain “Concept NESes”:

Fresh Start – Fresh start NESes start on a blanc map normally in 4000 BC (Civ fans know why ;) ) or 2000 BC when the “world” is more developed (start of ancient civilizations like Egypt). The goal of the game is to create your nation from scratch, developing new technologies, fighting wars, accumulating wealth and knowledge. Level of stats varies from game to game and is up to the mod. Fresh start NESes normally have maps with great details including cities, majour farmlands, trade routes and fortifications. Players normally take names of known nations with “established character” for easier gameplay. However fictional countries are welcomed.

Fiction NESes – include any type of science fiction or fantasy-themed NES. These NESes normally have a good balance between “story-based” and “stat-based”, perhaps being more of “story-based” than “stat-based”. Rules are totally up to the mod as normally fantasy NESes do not have analogies. They are the most difficult to run as they require dedicated players who know the “fantasy universe”. Thorough moderation and good maps are required for this type of NES to run smoothly.

Board NES – these include the few NESes that are mostly stat-based, but in addition have a “board”-like map. Board NESes often have very specific theme like “gang wars”, “monsters city rebellion” or “siege of Stalingrad”. If organized well these are fun to play if players are into board games.

NOTE: Sometimes the terms for different NESes change. This is particularly true when a lot of new players start NESing. NESes were classified in this way to reflect the various types of NESes that exist now. With time more types and concepts are sure to appear.

Some NESes are historical some are alt-historical. While historical NESes start at one point in real history, alternative NESes re-write the real history. A mod will normally say when things turned away from “real history” events and write a timeline (long or short) of how things developed since that moment. History NESes are more fun to play if you want your nation to behave better than it did “in real life”. Alternative History NESes are more interesting for “what if” scenarios.

2.3 “Terms to Know” (What makes up NESing)

Forgive me if the Guide sounds too detailed, but I am operating on a very basic level, trying to explain the core of NESing. Do skip if you think this is too basic.

Now that we are familiar with the basic NES types and concept we shall go into a more detailed overview of a “Normal” NES. So, what's what there?

Moderators - Usually there is only one moderator in a NES. Moderator is the one who “runs” the game: carrying out player’s orders, writing updates, making up random events, ruling NPCs, answering questions, updating the front page and solving disputes between players. They can be considered "Dungeon Masters" in D&D terminology. A NES is essentially a moderator’s game and all the players are “guests”, thus what moderator says is final unless he changes his mind. Moderators (mods) should be reasonable people without “favoritism” to players or states. The most important skill for a moderator is to stay consistent continuing moderating a NES which can be quite time-consuming. Generally moderators also create their own rules for a game or modify the existing rules of another moderator. The main duty of a moderator is to make sure that the NES is carried out in a way that is, hopefully, both fun and realistic (the latter part is often ignored).

Players - Its not hard to guess who those are - they are indeed the people who play the NES. When they are “guests” of a moderator in his game, they are also the ones who shape the NES with their actions. Players pick a country from the ones still free (i.e. NPCs) and rule it. Players write orders and stories, do diplomacy for their nation. If their actions are unrealistic for their country or time period a mod will warn the player or will not carry out his instructions. Players can enter or leave the game at any time. Mods generally accept all the new players if they have space available. Sometimes, there are player limits, but most often there is no such a thing. Players should remember that NES is a game and that they are the driving force in it.

Stories - While stories are far from necessary, most moderators encourage them, especially as they help them to get more involved in the NES. Stories involve events that happened in your nation or with your citizens. Writing about other countries where you have no control will most probably be ignored by other players and the mods. As NESes began by people writing stories, story writing is encouraged and mods will often give bonuses or positive random events. Stories do not only include “stories” as such, but nicely written diplomatic messages, treaties, declarations of war, news reports (by players), articles from encyclopaedias, records of a meeting and any other form possible. Stories must be posted in the game thread(s), or occasionally included in orders (in that case only appreciated by the mod only).

Orders – Orders are sent to NES moderators, sometimes in thread, more often by PM (or email) A moderator will set a deadline when the orders are due as he needs to compare and analyse them before making an update. In orders player basically says what he wants to do with his nation. Orders are even more diverse than stories: "continue wonder, grow economy once, grow education twice, invade Monaco with 5,000 conscripts" (though this, of course, is a simplification). Some orders will have an effect on stats (like grow economy), some will be memorised by the mod (i.e. prepare for invasion from Monaco. If Monaco invades they will have less success than if the order was not given). Some moderators want to see maps in the orders (if there’s war for example). Most moderators appreciate detailed and clearly labelled orders. If the orders are unclear it is very easy to misunderstand them and they either get ignored or carried out in a wrong way which may lead to conflicts. Mods like to see clearly organised orders and they are sometimes divided into sections: "Domestic", "Military", "Espionage" etc. Usually mods will not set any format for orders, but always try to make them clear. The time spent by the mod trying to understand your orders could be spent writing good stories. If you do not want other players to find out what you are doing mark parts of your orders as “secret” and it will not appear in the update or will appear in a form that will not have a link to your nation. Orders are largely the only way to affect the game.

Updates – Updates are generally long stories that moderators write based on players orders (most part) and what happened in the thread (stories, diplomacy and other info). Some of players orders may not go according to plans of the players (for example, the army sent by San Marino to invade Monaco could be intercepted by Vatican’s forces). Updates represent a certain time period that passed between the previous and the current update. They generally include that long story the mod wrote and a map to show the game’s progress. Other regular additions are also possible like random events, awards of bonuses for stories, or notes from the mod (rule changing, comments on orders etc). Besides writing the update the mod should also update the stats and other game information on the first thread page. Most moderators now try to update once a week on a certain day.

Front Page – (First Page) is where all the info about the game is recorded. A mod opens the game by putting all the game stuff onto the first page of a (new) forum thread and then inviting players. Most of the time it includes: Introduction (welcome to a NES and stuff about the game), NES Rules (the game mechanics and stats explained), Purchase lists (for stat based NESes), Nation Stats (nation name, player name, economy, some type of info about the country like government or popularity, armed forces and so on), Map (at the start of the game) and Miscellaneous information (that could be list of wars, list of treaties, NES timeline, pre-NES timeline, “bests” of nations, weapons descriptions etc). The stats should be updated every update, all the other information is updated when the mod feels like its time.

Threads – Most NESes take place on one thread - it is there that the front page, the updates, the maps and the player activity can be found. Sometimes, though, there are also separate threads for important organizations / alliances (for example the UN, NATO). Alliance and organisation threads, unless run by a mod, may be opened and run by players> The mod does not have to keep track of them, so it is up to the players to inform the mod of all other game threads and what’s going on in them.

Maps - Maps are supposed to represent the world situation at the moment of the update. The “starting” map is normally put by a mod onto the first page and a new map comes with every update. Maps generally represent only the things that are important for gameplay.

Diplomacy or “Diplo” is the way players communicate with each other in a game when “In Character” (see Glossary). Diplomacy is done in form of posts, PM (Private Messages) or over chat programs and is used for creating alliances, signing trade pacts, declaring wars and the like. Sometimes it is official (in game threads), but a lot of the time it is done secretly through media that cannot be read by other players. Results of “diplo” are sometimes displayed in player’s orders. Regardless of the agreements players signed it is the orders that count, not what players might have signed. Like in real life treaties, agreements can be broken and thus signing successful agreements becomes an important and perhaps most challenging part of NESing. Unless mods pay attention to “open diplo” they do not refer to it in the updates unless informed by players. In fact a lot of the agreements are not known by the mod unless he’s been told about them.

You now know how all parts of the game function. Let’s move on to playing!

NOTE2: For the purpose of this Guide I will mostly use “Normal” (alt)historical NESes as an example.
 
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