If you guys want some input from a player new to RFCE (and Civ in general) there should be a Strategy Guide Mega-Thread to which anyone could submit their guides. All guides would be compiled in the first post, and the thread itself can be used to debate strategies and whatnot.
Halp with Byzantium
- Thread starter Bamboozle
- Start date
Welcome to civ Bamboozle, I've been playing it since 2001 (good old civ III times) and I must say this is the best strategy game I've ever played (at least the one I liked most, it's hard to compare games). I hope you enjoy the game.
I agree with you that we should have a Strategy Guide for RFCE, and I'm eager to contribute.
I agree with you that we should have a Strategy Guide for RFCE, and I'm eager to contribute.
ius_iurandi
Chieftain
You know, I really like the strategies in this thread, but I have to say, I think the concern with the Arab flip is pretty unnecessary. I play a little differently.
I.) South and East: I usually milk Jerusalem and Alexandria for Settlers, and Tyre and Cyrenica for workers, and leave all of them to the Arabs (I'll even give them Cyrene.) I haven't played in a while, so I'm sorry if my values are off (I've been on DoC) but I like to let the Arabs live. In fact, except for a couple Spearmen, I usually don't have to build any units until I start churning out Cataphract SoDs, which is all I need for the rest of the game. The nice thing about live Arabs is that they'll soak up Seljuk and Mongol barb pressure, while Western Europe throws units, stability, and support costs at Jerusalem. As a bonus I only need to defend Sinope, Caesarea, Antioch/Aleppo, and some city I build SE of Sinope to get the pig and wheat.
II.) North and West - I use the starting galleys to bring Settlers (plus one from Constantinople) out here, to found Sophia, Mystras, and something SE of Ragusa. I've never needed to build anything to defend against the Bulgarians, really, either, and usually get both them and Venice as vassals, until the scripted DoWs.
III.) RFCE++ - This is so much fun. I think gifting cities in Egypt and/or the Levant to the Lombards is my favorite pastime.
I.) South and East: I usually milk Jerusalem and Alexandria for Settlers, and Tyre and Cyrenica for workers, and leave all of them to the Arabs (I'll even give them Cyrene.) I haven't played in a while, so I'm sorry if my values are off (I've been on DoC) but I like to let the Arabs live. In fact, except for a couple Spearmen, I usually don't have to build any units until I start churning out Cataphract SoDs, which is all I need for the rest of the game. The nice thing about live Arabs is that they'll soak up Seljuk and Mongol barb pressure, while Western Europe throws units, stability, and support costs at Jerusalem. As a bonus I only need to defend Sinope, Caesarea, Antioch/Aleppo, and some city I build SE of Sinope to get the pig and wheat.
II.) North and West - I use the starting galleys to bring Settlers (plus one from Constantinople) out here, to found Sophia, Mystras, and something SE of Ragusa. I've never needed to build anything to defend against the Bulgarians, really, either, and usually get both them and Venice as vassals, until the scripted DoWs.
III.) RFCE++ - This is so much fun. I think gifting cities in Egypt and/or the Levant to the Lombards is my favorite pastime.
AbsintheRed
Deity
Byzantium won't be this easy in 1.1
Early Slavic barbs and Persian Sassanids are a real threat now
And the Seljuks will be devastating if you don't build up your defences
Early Slavic barbs and Persian Sassanids are a real threat now
And the Seljuks will be devastating if you don't build up your defences
rfcfanatic
Mercantilist
Barbarians are the biggest threat of all. When the game starts - in your eastern provinces build nothing but spearmen - they are your best option against the Sassanid onslaught.
In the mid-11th century - be prepared for Seljuk onslaught. Make sure that you train cataphracts. Although they have strength 10 vs strength 13 of the Seljuks, a couple of Combat promotions with Barracks/Stable will give them pretty good odds (70-80%) against unpromoted Seljuks. Not sure if it depends on the game difficulty, but when I played this on Viceroy, my cataphracts had 20% bonus vs Barbarians.
Mongols will hit in 13th century, but if you have knights by then, the Mongol threat won't be as bad as the Seljuks.
In the mid-11th century - be prepared for Seljuk onslaught. Make sure that you train cataphracts. Although they have strength 10 vs strength 13 of the Seljuks, a couple of Combat promotions with Barracks/Stable will give them pretty good odds (70-80%) against unpromoted Seljuks. Not sure if it depends on the game difficulty, but when I played this on Viceroy, my cataphracts had 20% bonus vs Barbarians.
Mongols will hit in 13th century, but if you have knights by then, the Mongol threat won't be as bad as the Seljuks.
AbsintheRed
Deity
There already were some posts in the 1.1 thread
But can I get some more feedback directly on the barbs/Sassanids/Seljuks/Mongols in Byzantium? Especially on monarch difficulty
Is it too hard currently?
But can I get some more feedback directly on the barbs/Sassanids/Seljuks/Mongols in Byzantium? Especially on monarch difficulty
Is it too hard currently?
Yeah! I don't remember where I posted about it, but the Justinian Plague hit most of my cities, for a long time, and even hit a single city twice (it was hit, got safe before the end of the plague spread and got hit again during the same plague). RFCE plague is the worst plague of all games, the most devastating, and now in 1.1 the first plague is a huge catastrophe exactly when you're being pressed by Sassanids and building up for the Arabs (and by consequence for the Bulgars later). It's impossible to survive when just before the arabs your greek and western anatolia core is full of 1-pop cities without garrisons.
This is unrelated to the topic, but I'm distressed at how this mod portrays Byzantium. It's not very historical for several reasons:
1. At 500 AD, the Byzantine Empire's borders stretched from the Sinai to the Danube. In this mod I did not see any Danube cities at all, and large parts of Greece, Anatolia, Syria and Egypt are cityless. It gives the impression that there was some sort of horrific catastrophe prior to the spawn, which there was not. From 476 to 602 the Byzantine Empire was the strongest state in Europe, yet it is certainly not such here.
My ideas:
Have an automatic golden age from 527 to 565 (the reign of Justinian I)
Expand the culture of all cities significantly to cover up empty tiles, but don't add new cities
If you're thinking it's too overpowered, to balance that there should be:
A huge step up in barbarian invasions after 600 AD
Religious controversies (they were a real and powerful threat to the early Empire)
2. Constantinople had about 500,000 citizens during the reign of Anastasius. Perhaps during the plague, Constantinople should be hit the hardest as it was in real life?
The plague affected everyone as well; barbarians should be weakened until the plague dies away.
3. The Avars, Huns, Lombards and pre-Bulgar Slavs are not very well represented here. If the player has the power to conquer Italy, the Lombards should invade frequently. Similarly there should be huge Avar and Slavic SoDs to lay siege to the capital.
To the devs - fantastic job on this mod. Apart from the issues mentioned above, it would be virtually perfect. Thanks for the great work
1. At 500 AD, the Byzantine Empire's borders stretched from the Sinai to the Danube. In this mod I did not see any Danube cities at all, and large parts of Greece, Anatolia, Syria and Egypt are cityless. It gives the impression that there was some sort of horrific catastrophe prior to the spawn, which there was not. From 476 to 602 the Byzantine Empire was the strongest state in Europe, yet it is certainly not such here.
My ideas:
Have an automatic golden age from 527 to 565 (the reign of Justinian I)
Expand the culture of all cities significantly to cover up empty tiles, but don't add new cities
If you're thinking it's too overpowered, to balance that there should be:
A huge step up in barbarian invasions after 600 AD
Religious controversies (they were a real and powerful threat to the early Empire)
2. Constantinople had about 500,000 citizens during the reign of Anastasius. Perhaps during the plague, Constantinople should be hit the hardest as it was in real life?
The plague affected everyone as well; barbarians should be weakened until the plague dies away.
3. The Avars, Huns, Lombards and pre-Bulgar Slavs are not very well represented here. If the player has the power to conquer Italy, the Lombards should invade frequently. Similarly there should be huge Avar and Slavic SoDs to lay siege to the capital.
To the devs - fantastic job on this mod. Apart from the issues mentioned above, it would be virtually perfect. Thanks for the great work
AbsintheRed
Deity
Don't think about regions without cities as unpopulated areas. All of europe was more or less populated for the entire timeline of the mod. Cities represented in RFCE are just the most important urban centers
Also, do you see any more powerful states between 476 and 602?
Having said that, at a point I was thinking about adding a couple more cities to the Balkans, which are to be destroyed by early barbs even for a skilled human player
But what would be the point? It would only be annoying for the player without any benefits gameplay-wise
Even if you manage to repell the barbs, you would lose those cities to spawns a couple years later
AbsintheRed
Deity
Too many byz cities flipping would reduce the replayability of the civs whom they are flipping to.
The freedom to choose where to settle your cities
I don't want to play a Bulgaria where every spot is already decided
The freedom to choose where to settle your cities
I don't want to play a Bulgaria where every spot is already decided
AbsintheRed
Deity
I have a thought about switching indy Belgrade/Nándorfehérvár to Raska or Nis
Nándorfehérvár and most of the area was part of Hungary from 900-1921 (excluding the ottoman occupation), while Raska or Nis would represent medieval Serbia much better
It's also closer to Byzantine core area
But even if I do that, this city and Ragusa are the only 2 cities in the area
The problem is that either is in any civ's flip area
Maybe it's better to leave them as later spawning indy cities
Nándorfehérvár and most of the area was part of Hungary from 900-1921 (excluding the ottoman occupation), while Raska or Nis would represent medieval Serbia much better
It's also closer to Byzantine core area
But even if I do that, this city and Ragusa are the only 2 cities in the area
The problem is that either is in any civ's flip area
Maybe it's better to leave them as later spawning indy cities
Well, this is the idea when I was talking about making Cats against the Selyuqs:
This is the turn Mus (the barbarian anatolian city) spawned. I'm playing on RFCE 1.1 SVN version already (so most parts of the guide would need a reformulation).
40 Cataphracts on this turn, the Selyuq invasion will start in 2 turns (1071 AD) with 2 Stacks of 3 Selyuq units between Ankyra and Sinope/Caesarea and 2 Crossbowmen outside my borders (there is a small fog north of Mus, so maybe there is something else). I started making Cats around 915 AD (I try to start making barracks and stables near 900 AD, so I start making Cats right in the beggining of the 900s), and all are Combat II with a single Combat III, but some already have some XP got from the barbs, so these I'll use against weakened Selyuqs survivors. I'll face them now and see the result.
Spoiler :
This is the turn Mus (the barbarian anatolian city) spawned. I'm playing on RFCE 1.1 SVN version already (so most parts of the guide would need a reformulation).
40 Cataphracts on this turn, the Selyuq invasion will start in 2 turns (1071 AD) with 2 Stacks of 3 Selyuq units between Ankyra and Sinope/Caesarea and 2 Crossbowmen outside my borders (there is a small fog north of Mus, so maybe there is something else). I started making Cats around 915 AD (I try to start making barracks and stables near 900 AD, so I start making Cats right in the beggining of the 900s), and all are Combat II with a single Combat III, but some already have some XP got from the barbs, so these I'll use against weakened Selyuqs survivors. I'll face them now and see the result.
Attachments
AbsintheRed
Deity
When reading similar feedback I always feel that the Seljuks are still underpowered
You are supposed to lose at least a couple cities to them, no matter how well you play...
40+ Cataphracts are way too much
You are supposed to lose at least a couple cities to them, no matter how well you play...
40+ Cataphracts are way too much
Well, if The byz did what I did the Selyuqs would be a fine meal, as it was for me. And actually they seemed a lot easier now then before (not a single stack of 4 selyuqs appeared, no more then 6 selyuqs appeared in a single turn). Corssbowmen are useless, they were free XP to me. Guisarmiers were interesting, at some terrains they were harder to hit then selyuqs.
I know you want history to be more forceful, but this is a game, and I put the arabs to run. I had 40 cataphracts because I wasn't losing improvements to barbs since the end of the sassanid spawn, and even at that time the losses were minor. So I could enhance my cities up to 900 AD, and then I had most of Anatolia, Constantinople, Hadrianopolis, and the whole mideast making Cats from ~950 AD - 1071 AD.
And that happened only because the plague didn't catch my anatolian border cities, so sassanids couldn't take them from me (maybe, I think I could muster forces almost the same size as I did, or at least a size big enough because I didn't need all I got).
And it seems Jerusalem doesn't have a big Selyuq spawn anymore, they were spawning as far as the Islamic Capital only.
I'm sure most players will lose cities in the beggining, will let the Arabs survive, may get a hard time with Bulgaria, and will tremble before the Selyuqs with Arbalestiers, Guisarmiers and Castles (not that this strategy is not useful, but with this you'll lose a lot of your countryside, and will let the selyuqs to amass a large force on you).
If the idea is to make it impossible for the byz to start the game big and only get bigger, you'll remove the fun of winning where they lost.
Maybe if you enhance the Selyuq forces by the size of the byz? Is that possible? A bigger byz should trigger a bigger Selyuq invasion, a weaker byz should face less Selyuqs.
BTW, if the plague mechanic wasn't so frustrating we could let the Justinian's plague go until 750 AD, as it did. The problem is that it kills your units a lot. But killing pop is worse in the long run if you have units to let you stay alive. It would make it a lot harder to accomplish what I did.
I know you want history to be more forceful, but this is a game, and I put the arabs to run. I had 40 cataphracts because I wasn't losing improvements to barbs since the end of the sassanid spawn, and even at that time the losses were minor. So I could enhance my cities up to 900 AD, and then I had most of Anatolia, Constantinople, Hadrianopolis, and the whole mideast making Cats from ~950 AD - 1071 AD.
And that happened only because the plague didn't catch my anatolian border cities, so sassanids couldn't take them from me (maybe, I think I could muster forces almost the same size as I did, or at least a size big enough because I didn't need all I got).
And it seems Jerusalem doesn't have a big Selyuq spawn anymore, they were spawning as far as the Islamic Capital only.
I'm sure most players will lose cities in the beggining, will let the Arabs survive, may get a hard time with Bulgaria, and will tremble before the Selyuqs with Arbalestiers, Guisarmiers and Castles (not that this strategy is not useful, but with this you'll lose a lot of your countryside, and will let the selyuqs to amass a large force on you).
If the idea is to make it impossible for the byz to start the game big and only get bigger, you'll remove the fun of winning where they lost.
Maybe if you enhance the Selyuq forces by the size of the byz? Is that possible? A bigger byz should trigger a bigger Selyuq invasion, a weaker byz should face less Selyuqs.
BTW, if the plague mechanic wasn't so frustrating we could let the Justinian's plague go until 750 AD, as it did. The problem is that it kills your units a lot. But killing pop is worse in the long run if you have units to let you stay alive. It would make it a lot harder to accomplish what I did.
AbsintheRed
Deity
Yeah, what I said might be a little too much
You shouldn't lose a couple cities no matter how well you play
But Seljuks should be a serious threat, with pretty good chances for some victories over you if you made a couple mistakes during your reign
You shouldn't lose a couple cities no matter how well you play
But Seljuks should be a serious threat, with pretty good chances for some victories over you if you made a couple mistakes during your reign
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