Halp with Byzantium

[Spirictum]

You can add a Golden Age to that, and of course I used it to change to the medieval feudal set (+ Free units, -50% distance cost penalty, +20% unit production, +1 and +1 by farm, +2 per Manor House and +1 Stability on city conquest). Actually that is one of the most important parts of this strategy

 

[AbsintheRed]

You can add a Golden Age to that, and of course I used it to change to the medieval feudal set (+ Free units, -50% distance cost penalty, +20% unit production, +1 and +1 by farm, +2 per Manor House and +1 Stability on city conquest). Actually that is one of the most important parts of this strategy

Alright, you guys are right as I already said in my last post
The question is: should the Seljuks be harder or not?

Seljuks should be a serious threat, with pretty good chances for some victories over you if you made a couple mistakes during your reign

 

[Spirictum]

Alright, you guys are right as I already said in my last post
The question is: should the Seljuks be harder or not?

I don't think this will solve the problem. With 40 Cats you would have to make the Selyuqs at least bigger then 40 Selyuq units (the odds of winning are around 75%, so in even numbers it'll still be a victory for the Cats). And more then 40 Selyuq units against a byz that only has Anatolia and Greece will kill him easily.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Yeah, something like you suggested would be much better:
(and not just here, for some other civs/spawns as well)

Maybe if you enhance the Selyuq forces by the size of the byz? Is that possible? A bigger byz should trigger a bigger Selyuq invasion, a weaker byz should face less Selyuqs.

Don't really know yet how to implement something like this
Will think about it

Still, for now I'm curious what to do with the Seljuks
Their numbers were reduced since the release of 1.1
Also moved north from Jerusalem and the southern Levant
Maybe they are too easy now?

 

[Spirictum]

I went to the statistics and the exact number of Selyuqs that spawned was 40, so we were on even terms.

I lost 7 Cats on this war, and now I have 52 Cats, so more 19 between 1071 AD and 1104 AD.

I think the solution to this is in enhancing the arabs, not the selyuqs. I could only have 40 Cats because I didn't lose the levant (they took Tyre for one turn, then I took it back and ended the arabs).

If in 1071 I had 15 Cats there, I would have a really hard time.

But for now a simpler solution would make a conditional selyuq stack at Jerusalem. I remember that in previous versions if the byz held the levant no beduin would spawn in arabia (but if it was arab, beduin HAs would spawn and after farriers Ghazis would spawn). If it's possible to make a conditional spawn of selyuqs if the byz control Jerusalem, this will not obliterate a weak byz and for the strong byz will make the war a lot harder, because you can't protect Anatolia and Jerusalem with the same units, you'll have to split your forces.

Already expecting something like this, I had 10 Cats in Jerusalem, 2 in Tiberias/Damascus and 6 in Edessa, so if I needed backup I would have from where to take them.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I think the solution to this is in enhancing the arabs, not the selyuqs.

Yes.

The Arabs are pathetic as they are now. They need to flip Alexandria and start with more Ghazi instead of Horse Archers.

 

[Bamboozle]

Flipping Alexandria or any Egypt city isn't historical at all. Unlike Syria and Palestine, where sometimes a city would have welcomed the Arabs over their Byzantine occupiers, the Arabs needed to conquer Egypt completely.

I do think the Arabs should start with a mega SoD to achieve this though. I mean it's good for gameplay but not so good for accuracy.

Speaking of Byzantium, is there ever going to be a Justinian's reconquest mechanic? He conquered the entire Mediterranean, I was hoping it could be reenacted somehow here.

 

[Spirictum]

I would rather add a small army in Italy in the beginning of the game, for conquering a couple cities
And see the Byzantines struggling with keeping those territories - both militarily and stability-wise, as it was IRL

Let's hope Absinthe does this ASAP. Maybe an additional stack or additional boats to cross the mediterranean and conquer North Africa and Southern Iberia (an indy city there would be great for that).

 

[Askiya]

Let's hope Absinthe does this ASAP. Maybe an additional stack or additional boats to cross the mediterranean and conquer North Africa and Southern Iberia (an indy city there would be great for that).

Well there's already Tangiers, and I'm not sure if Seville would have spawned yet, but if so, then you'd have your indy city. Although I'm not fully convinced of the merit of showing Justinian's conquest as they were quite temporary and didn't seem to have had much of an effect on Byzantium besides ruining its treasury. On the other hand, it could make for some interesting alt-history where they keep some of the Western cities.

 

[Bamboozle]

Although I'm not fully convinced of the merit of showing Justinian's conquest as they were quite temporary and didn't seem to have had much of an effect on Byzantium besides ruining its treasury.

There's an unfortunate misconception that Justinian depleted the treasury and squandered the empire's forces in vain. When Sicily surrendered, he gained control of a rich and fertile island. He quickly conquered other vital and strategic lands across the Mediterranean, marking the zenith of the Empire.

From today's perspective it looks dumb since the bulk of the areas weren't in Byzantine possession for long, but you have to look at it from a 6th-century perspective. No one knew how or when the Lombards would storm Italy, for instance, or when the Arabs would overrun his Egyptian and Syrian provinces. And North Africa continued to be well-tilled and valuable until it was lost to the Arabs in 697, almost 150 years after Byzantine generals conquered it.

At the most, it changed the makeup of Europe and established Byzantium as the most powerful state in the world for nearly half a century.

I also think that the Byzantines should be on steroids around 963-1025, but to a lesser degree.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Flipping Alexandria or any Egypt city isn't historical at all. Unlike Syria and Palestine, where sometimes a city would have welcomed the Arabs over their Byzantine occupiers, the Arabs needed to conquer Egypt completely.

I do think the Arabs should start with a mega SoD to achieve this though. I mean it's good for gameplay but not so good for accuracy.

Speaking of Byzantium, is there ever going to be a Justinian's reconquest mechanic? He conquered the entire Mediterranean, I was hoping it could be reenacted somehow here.

There's an unfortunate misconception that Justinian depleted the treasury and squandered the empire's forces in vain. When Sicily surrendered, he gained control of a rich and fertile island. He quickly conquered other vital and strategic lands across the Mediterranean, marking the zenith of the Empire.

From today's perspective it looks dumb since the bulk of the areas weren't in Byzantine possession for long, but you have to look at it from a 6th-century perspective. No one knew how or when the Lombards would storm Italy, for instance, or when the Arabs would overrun his Egyptian and Syrian provinces. And North Africa continued to be well-tilled and valuable until it was lost to the Arabs in 697, almost 150 years after Byzantine generals conquered it.

At the most, it changed the makeup of Europe and established Byzantium as the most powerful state in the world for nearly half a century.

I also think that the Byzantines should be on steroids around 963-1025, but to a lesser degree.

I agree with all your thoughts here
Not yet sure exactly how will I solve the Byzantine and Arab starting situation
I plan some changes to both, but definitely not with some ahistoric and totally unfun solution like Alexandria also flipping to Arabia

 

[AbsintheRed]

Let's hope Absinthe does this ASAP. Maybe an additional stack or additional boats to cross the mediterranean and conquer North Africa and Southern Iberia (an indy city there would be great for that).

We cannot really get overboard with this
Iberia is way too much

Well there's already Tangiers, and I'm not sure if Seville would have spawned yet, but if so, then you'd have your indy city. Although I'm not fully convinced of the merit of showing Justinian's conquest as they were quite temporary and didn't seem to have had much of an effect on Byzantium besides ruining its treasury. On the other hand, it could make for some interesting alt-history where they keep some of the Western cities.

As I said, I'm with Bamboozle about Justinian conquests. They weren't that temporary, or at least they didn't start that way...
However you are right, adding too much strength to the western parts of his empire would result in alternative history scenarios
Probably in way bigger percent of the games than it's welcomed
So even if some kind of reconquest mechanics is involved, it should probably be kept rather restricted