Hannibal - the overlooked powerhouse?

[Martinus]

I have been playing as him on Monarch a lot recently and having a great blast, however I noticed that he is rarely mentioned as one of the best leaders.

He is Financial which is always a boost unless you are running SE, and he is Charismatic which is imo both a better warmonger trait than Aggressive, and also grants a great happiness side-bonus irrespective of your game style (with easily buildable monuments, or better yet Stonehenge, you get extra 2 happiness per city) which especially helps in early game, where you use Slavery a lot.

The UB is situational, but not bad, and the UU can be beelined quite fast (especially thanks to Financial), and then can serve you well for quite a while especially if you make sure to pillage your opponents' iron/copper mines (in fact it is one of a few early units that can stand against Praetorians).

So am I missing something less-than-optimal about him?

 

[yavoon]

I doubt anyone who is financial/charismatic could be too overlooked, seeing as both are considered top of the line traits.

 

[Martinus]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. What I meant is that people are quite excited about Darius (Fin/Org), Willem (Fin/Cre) or even Pacal (Fin/Exp), but Hannibal does not seem to be mentioned a lot, even though I think he is on par with any of them.

 

[cabert]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. What I meant is that people are quite excited about Darius (Fin/Org), Willem (Fin/Cre) or even Pacal (Fin/Exp), but Hannibal does not seem to be mentioned a lot, even though I think he is on par with any of them.

because he's not a new leader, maybe?

 

[martin031]

I like using him for an SE. Mainly because most of my GP farms are on the coast. And it is easy to transition into a CE when you take over cities with fully developed cottages.

 

[Good Omens]

I love Hannibal, he might be my favorite leader overall. The Numidians are very strong for their time, and the Cothon is great for income. Obviously, if you end up landlocked those Cothons aren't going to do much.

Early attack, gank an enemy or two, then sit back, get lots of trading partners, let your happy, prosperous cities grow.

 

[MrCynical]

Hannibal is easily one of the strongest leaders, if not the outright best, particularly at high level. Financial is strong under any circumstances, and Charismatic really shines when normal happiness caps are low and early war virtually unavoidable. Neither the UU or UB are that stunning, but they're worth having. It's fairly obvious that these two, always high on the list of strong traits woul dgive a strong leader. Philosophical might just top Charismatic at lower levels, but doesn't work all that with Financial.

 

[Say_my_name]

Hannibal is a commercial beast on maps with many Islands and continents (Archipelago, Big and Small, etc.), Cothons are extremely worthwhile when you're having the opportunity for many oversea trade routes. Combine those with the Great Lighthouse, and maybe the Temple of Artemis in your capital, and you're set. Cothons also got a passive boost in BtS, because trade routes yield more there and are more worthwhile.

 

[futurehermit]

Hannibal is clearly one of the best leaders in the game. UU and UB are both good. Traits are excellent. Starting techs are respectable, especially if you start on the coast.

 

[Innawerkz]

He was the leader with the biggest boost from BtS. Cothons giving more juicy ocean trade route than anyone else and Charismatic - if it wasn't already overpowered - recieved a boost with the Astronomy obsoleting Obelisks.

I know who I am going to mark as my biggest target with Privateers. Bigger cities with bigger trade income! I wonder if the Privateers will get a larger-than-average plunder on Carthage?

 

[GeneralGab]

Numidian Cavalry are also better now, since they no longer get the -10% city attack horse archers got in Warlords.

 

[futurehermit]

Numidian Cavalry are also better now, since they no longer get the -10% city attack horse archers got in Warlords.

yep, exactly, that is huge imo. num. cav are a great uu! the FREE promotion is great as you keep it when you upgrade them.

 

[Validator]

Numidian Cavalry are also better now, since they no longer get the -10% city attack horse archers got in Warlords.

Actually I think the addition of Flank Attack damage to HAs in BtS did more to improve the usefulness of NCs. The attacking unit has to survive the attack to cause Flank Damage. A Carthaginian's opponent can't rely on spears to protect a stack of siege units from NC's Flank Damage. War Elephants are the only unit that effectively counter NCs and that requires ivory which usually isn't widely available.

 

[kniteowl]

Actually I think the addition of Flank Attack damage to HAs in BtS did more to improve the usefulness of NCs. The attacking unit has to survive the attack to cause Flank Damage. A Carthaginian's opponent can't rely on spears to protect a stack of siege units from NC's Flank Damage. War Elephants are the only unit that effectively counter NCs and that requires ivory which usually isn't widely available.

Well you I guess You can use you're own Horse Archers to counter the NC's because the NC's strength was decrease to 5 and a normal Horse' archer's Strength is 6, but most people ignore HBR because it's a dead end tech unless you're Mongolia.

 

[Polycrates]

Hannibal is great - excellent traits, nice UU and solid UB. The problem I have with him is that he's a little schizophrenic tech-wise in the early game. You want Compass early for the Cothons, but you also want HBR for Numidians, as well as Currency for the extra trade routes. That's a lot of expensive tech (especially when they're down different tech paths), and it limits your ability to beeline elsewhere to take advantage of specific circumstances.

Also, did Compass always need Iron Working? I could have sworn it used to need Metal Casting. In any case, that probably makes it a little easier to get.

 

[futurehermit]

Compass can be lightbulbed with a GS. Currency can now be teched through alphabet after your hbriding beeline.

 

[NaZdReG]

the down different tech paths can be greatly remedied with tech stealing espionage. do a great wall/ great spy beeline (try to have alpha finished a few turns before the spy spits out) and as soon as you have alpha go shopping for techs. whoever has the best stealable stuff becomes the targed (especially if they are not your first warmongering target.. and tech/points leader or likely to pop the oracle immenently...)

once you have alpha, currency is 1 tech away to research at leisure. procure HBR next then work from there

NaZ

big time edit: the UU is still completely ineffective!! if you beeline they go right up against archers, and have no effective bonus against them vs melee units. even if the AI has access to copper or iron, they are still more likely to build archers for defence. (especially whipped in response to attack) with barracks you do get flanking 2 which is nice, 50% withdraw chance so there is some success and surviveability, but overall not strong enough to justify beelining for HBR.

 

[cabert]

the down different tech paths can be greatly remedied with tech stealing espionage. do a great wall/ great spy beeline (try to have alpha finished a few turns before the spy spits out) and as soon as you have alpha go shopping for techs. whoever has the best stealable stuff becomes the targed (especially if they are not your first warmongering target.. and tech/points leader or likely to pop the oracle immenently...)

once you have alpha, currency is 1 tech away to research at leisure. procure HBR next then work from there

NaZ

big time edit: the UU is still completely ineffective!! if you beeline they go right up against archers, and have no effective bonus against them vs melee units. even if the AI has access to copper or iron, they are still more likely to build archers for defence. (especially whipped in response to attack) with barracks you do get flanking 2 which is nice, 50% withdraw chance so there is some success and surviveability, but overall not strong enough to justify beelining for HBR.

with stables (allowed by HBR) you start with 5 xp, which gives flanking 2 + something else.
combat 1 for instance.
Those guys can very well take out every city lying around.

 

[NaZdReG]

maybe the RNG was against me. I threw 10 flanking 2 combat 1 horses against 4 archers and while I took the city it exhausted the stack. taking down the capitol proved impossible with them reinforced to 12.

they seem strong.. just not against archers. would be better actually if the opponent shifted to axes like they have been lately in my bts games.

NaZ

 

[Alsn]

Im with NaZdReG on this one, im sure theyre very good as anti-catapult units since you *need* pikemen or war elephants to protect a stack against them but theyre largely useless against archers, even with combat 1 and flanking 2. You need ridiculous amounts to actually capture a city, not to mention a walled or hilled city.