Has Microsoft stumbled?

[Tommy Vercetti]

Do you guys think Microsoft has stumbled recently? With the current failing sales of Windows 8 on PC, the slow sale of Windows 8 tablets/phones and now the confirmation that the Xbox 720 will force people to be online all the time to play games. The fact they tried to put a Tablet OS on a PC was a bad idea and they seem to be hell bent on forcing the Metro UI on everyone, making it hard to avoid it in Windows 8 without using third party programs and technical tricks, causing sales of Windows 8 to be very poor and hurt the sales of PCs in general. Now we have the recent confirmation that the 720 will require people to be online to play games, even in single player and it does not allow used games.

In my opinion Microsoft really has stumbled badly recently, Steve Ballmer is doing to Microsoft what Vince Russo did to WCW. While they have stumbled in a bad way, they can recover with the right decisions, mostly fixing the problems with the 720 and scrapping the hated Metro UI for PCs and maybe abandon making tablets and instead focus on making software for them. I used to be a defender of Microsoft but I have to admit, they have made a lot of bad decisions recently.

Do you guys have anythougts?

 

[ArneHD]

Microsoft has made thousands of bad decisions over the course of it's life, but they learn from their experiences; Windows Vista vs. Windows 7 or Windows 95 vs. 98 for that matter.

The bottom line is that Windows 8 and the Xbox 720 won't kill Microsoft. I'm fairly certain that only the financial equivalent of sustained nuclear bombardment could do that.

 

[Ajidica]

I really am not up on the tech news but two things in your post caught my attention:

Now we have the recent confirmation that the 720 will require people to be online to play games, even in single player and it does not allow used games.

Most consoles and games now have so many internet based features that keeping internet on/off modes is making things pretty complicated and frankly, internet-on modes offer so many more benefits that internet-off modes that it is no surprise Microsoft is tailoring its new consoles to appeal to game design studios. If have a problem with that line of development, take it up with the game design studios, not Microsoft.

The fact they tried to put a Tablet OS on a PC was a bad idea

The limited bits I have read about Windows 8's interface is that is takes some getting used to and it is quite a bit different from the interface that fundamentally hasn't changed since Windows 3 (or whatever it was). For some perspective, Margaret Thatcher was still in office and the Soviet Union was still around when Windows 3 came out. I would say it is high time for Microsoft to do some experimenting with new ideas for interface design. I cannot find fault with them for trying something new as opposed to falling into iPhone-itis where very few visible changes, or even novel changes occur.

Microsoft still dominates the personal computing world and given the popularity of Windows 7 I would say they have some freedom to move and experiment with Windows 8. If Windows 8 turns out to be a flop of gargantuan proportions, they still have Windows 7 and can release 'Windows 8.1' with a modified interface.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

I really am not up on the tech news but two things in your post caught my attention:

Most consoles and games now have so many internet based features that keeping internet on/off modes is making things pretty complicated and frankly, internet-on modes offer so many more benefits that internet-off modes that it is no surprise Microsoft is tailoring its new consoles to appeal to game design studios. If have a problem with that line of development, take it up with the game design studios, not Microsoft.


The limited bits I have read about Windows 8's interface is that is takes some getting used to and it is quite a bit different from the interface that fundamentally hasn't changed since Windows 3 (or whatever it was). For some perspective, Margaret Thatcher was still in office and the Soviet Union was still around when Windows 3 came out. I would say it is high time for Microsoft to do some experimenting with new ideas for interface design. I cannot find fault with them for trying something new as opposed to falling into iPhone-itis where very few visible changes, or even novel changes occur.

Microsoft still dominates the personal computing world and given the popularity of Windows 7 I would say they have some freedom to move and experiment with Windows 8. If Windows 8 turns out to be a flop of gargantuan proportions, they still have Windows 7 and can release 'Windows 8.1' with a modified interface.

The problem is if it ain't broke don't fix it. The old interface is great. The new one is fails on a PC, why limit my multi tasking? It is a stupid idea to REQUIRE an internet connection to play single player modes of a game. What if my internet goes out?

 

[sophie]

No. OS sales are not tied to overall OS quality. Less Windows 8 OSes sold just means less people are buying new computers right now. By all accounts Windows 8 has been a critical failure. There has been some grumblings but those people have either a) never tried it or b) are just whining because Windows 8 is different. Windows 8 is categorically superior to Windows 7 in every way other than the highly subjective aesthetic (although personally I find Windows 8 to be very aesthetically beautiful too).

The always-online console thing is still an unconfirmed rumor.

Windows isn't going anywhere.

 

[BvBPL]

A couple of stumbles by no means removes Microsoft from an extremely important position in the tech sector.

Windows 8 was designed for tablets and smart phones. On a unit-by-unit basis, this is where modern computing is going. It is by no means a stumble to develop a mobile OS. What may have been a mistake was creating a unitary PC OS to go along w/ it.

As for the always-on Xbox, I don't know. The PS4 will also be always-on, I belive. That's just the way things are going. I'm sure they simply decided that they will make more money w/ an always-on system. They are probably right.
--
Also, let us not forget that Win 8 sales thus far as well as likely new Xbox sales are totally dwarfed by Microsoft Office. As long as Office and Outlook continue to be the choice for business, Microsoft will be around.

 

[Ajidica]

The problem is if it ain't broke don't fix it. The old interface is great.

While the current interface does work well, it is important to remember that is the interface that we all began using personal computers with. Remember what I said, the classic Windows interface has been around since Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister. We all learned how to use computers with that style of interface and have since become accustom to it and think it is great because of how accustom we are to it.
For example, having a keyboard set up in Dvorak formatting rather than QWERTY is, scientifically, better for you and typing speed. However, because pretty much all word programs and keyboards come in QWERTY form Dvorak remains to the vast majority a complicated and mystifying format.
NOTE: I am not saying by analogy that Windows 8 is superior to Windows 7. Rather, it simply is quite different and that inevitably will take some getting used to.

It is a stupid idea to REQUIRE an internet connection to play single player modes of a game. What if my internet goes out?

Like Owen said, the always-online thing is just an unconfirmed rumor. I think after the debacles of the SimCity and Diablo III launches with always-online things -if Microsoft were planning to include an integral always-online component- they will implement an offline mode for whatever home interface they are using. Whether game companies will do the same is beyond Microsoft's control.

 

[JohannaK]

Microsoft is dead. Aea Iacta Est. In two weeks, their shares will reach a market value of 0. Sell now that you still can.

Spoiler :

 

[Zelig]

The problem is if it ain't broke don't fix it. The old interface is great. The new one is fails on a PC, why limit my multi tasking? It is a stupid idea to REQUIRE an internet connection to play single player modes of a game. What if my internet goes out?

DOS wasn't broke, why fix it?

Windows 8 was designed for tablets and smart phones. On a unit-by-unit basis, this is where modern computing is going. It is by no means a stumble to develop a mobile OS. What may have been a mistake was creating a unitary PC OS to go along w/ it.

This is honestly where everyone is going, Microsoft just made it there before Canonical, Google and Apple.

Also, let us not forget that Win 8 sales thus far as well as likely new Xbox sales are totally dwarfed by Microsoft Office. As long as Office and Outlook continue to be the choice for business, Microsoft will be around.

Win8 sells more than Office, but Office makes more money. (Generally - Windows division made more launch month for Windows 8, but Office division usually makes more.)

Xbox sales don't even compare, they sold as many Win8 licenses in a couple months as they've sold total xbox units ever.

For example, having a keyboard set up in Dvorak formatting rather than QWERTY is, scientifically, better for you and typing speed. However, because pretty much all word programs and keyboards come in QWERTY form Dvorak remains to the vast majority a complicated and mystifying format.

I use Dvorak.

NOTE: I am not saying by analogy that Windows 8 is superior to Windows 7. Rather, it simply is quite different and that inevitably will take some getting used to.

The insane thing about the Win8 complaints is that Windows 8 is not quite different. I use Win8 on a desktop without a touchscreen in exactly the same way as I used Windows 7. The task manager is nicer, the file copy dialog is nicer, and I never see any Metro apps.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

A couple of stumbles by no means removes Microsoft from an extremely important position in the tech sector.

Windows 8 was designed for tablets and smart phones. On a unit-by-unit basis, this is where modern computing is going. It is by no means a stumble to develop a mobile OS. What may have been a mistake was creating a unitary PC OS to go along w/ it.

As for the always-on Xbox, I don't know. The PS4 will also be always-on, I belive. That's just the way things are going. I'm sure they simply decided that they will make more money w/ an always-on system. They are probably right.
--
Also, let us not forget that Win 8 sales thus far as well as likely new Xbox sales are totally dwarfed by Microsoft Office. As long as Office and Outlook continue to be the choice for business, Microsoft will be around.

I agree the mistake is making on OS to do everything. Which is not a good idea. That is why Windows 8 is selling poorly. I don't think the desktops and laptops are going to go away anytime soon. There will always be a market for high performance PCs. They might become more of a niche market though. The best thing MS could do with Windows next time is release one OS for desktops and one for tablets/smartphones. Get rid of Metro on there PC OS or make it a secondary feature. Give users a choice between start menu and start screen. I think Windows 8 has damaged there credibility some and if the Xbox 720 does require you to be online, good chances I won't buy it. Especially if they block used games.

 

[Zelig]

I agree the mistake is making on OS to do everything. Which is not a good idea. That is why Windows 8 is selling poorly.

No it isn't, you have been soundly debunked time and time again on this point.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

No it isn't, you have been soundly debunked time and time again on this point.

Despite having other strong points Windows 8 is selling poorly on PC. Mostly because of Metro. People HATE Metro UI.

 

[Zelig]

Despite having other strong points Windows 8 is selling poorly on PC.

Nope, majority of computers now selling are Windows 8.

People HATE Metro UI.

Nope: http://www.zdnet.com/just-how-much-do-people-hate-windows-8-7000013319/?s_cid=e539

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

Nope, majority of computers now selling are Windows 8.



Nope: http://www.zdnet.com/just-how-much-do-people-hate-windows-8-7000013319/?s_cid=e539

That is an exception. For everyone who likes Metro UI, there are at least three people who don't. Think about how popular the start menu replacements are.

http://www.cpapracticeadvisor.com/blog/10847437/six-reasons-the-windows-frankensystem-will-fail

http://www.dailytech.com/Windows+8+Usage+Sinks+Below+Vista+Levels/article29546.htm

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/29455...ta-xp-and-7-continue-to-be-leaders/index.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adriank...-the-first-windows-release-i-absolutely-hate/

Metro UI is a failure. There was no demand for replacing the start menu or changing the interface. Metro UI on PC is a terrible idea. No one wants a PhoneOS on there computer.

 

[Zelig]

Start menu replacements are not very popular.

Windows 8 use: ~45 million
Classic Shell has ~2 million downloads

In 2009, Firefox had 1 billion downloads
Estimate 2 billion internet users with Firefox-compatible devices in 2009
Firefox usage share of ~30%, indicating .6 users per download.

Assuming users per downloads being similar between classic shell and firefox, you get a usage share of classic shell around 2.7%. Knock that up to 4% for Start8 and assorted other replacements, if you like.

I'm not going to bother responding regarding your links, they're irrelevant opinion pieces full of factual inaccuracies.

And again, I have no problems using Windows 8 on my triple monitor non-touschreen setup without ever seeing a Metro app, your whining about Metro is irrelevant as well, since it's completely optional.

 

[downtown]

I don't think any specifics on the Xbox720 have been officially released yet, including the 'always online' bit.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

Start menu replacements are not very popular.

Windows 8 use: ~45 million
Classic Shell has ~2 million downloads

In 2009, Firefox had 1 billion downloads
Estimate 2 billion internet users with Firefox-compatible devices in 2009
Firefox usage share of ~30%, indicating .6 users per download.

Assuming users per downloads being similar between classic shell and firefox, you get a usage share of classic shell around 2.7%. Knock that up to 4% for Start8 and assorted other replacements, if you like.

I'm not going to bother responding regarding your links, they're irrelevant opinion pieces full of factual inaccuracies.

And again, I have no problems using Windows 8 on my triple monitor non-touschreen setup without ever seeing a Metro app, your whining about Metro is irrelevant as well, since it's completely optional.

You only named two of the start menu replacements there are A LOT of them. At least 10 of them. So there is a good amount of competition there. The fact so many of them exist should tell you something.

 

[Zelig]

You only named two of the start menu replacements there are A LOT of them. At least 10 of them. So there is a good amount of competition there. The fact so many of them exist should tell you something.

None of them other than classic shell have any significant use.

 

[azzaman333]

Am I the only one who is completely unconcerned whether the neXtBox is always online or not? Provided they set up the necessary infrastructure to deal with the loads, and have next to no down time (which based on my experience with xbox live is well within their grasp) I don't see why it should be a problem.

 

[Zelig]

Well, I'm unconcerned, but that's because my Windows 8 PC is the best available gaming system.

I am interested in the low-cost Xbox tv, or whatever they call it, for easy tv streaming.