Has Microsoft stumbled?

[Archbob]

http://www.zdnet.com/just-how-much-d...-8-7000013319/

That's extremely weak data compared to industry sales and adoption figures. Your talk about a poll of 1500 people versus millions of data point on sales and consumer adoption.
Also your poll shows that while Win 8 does poll favorably with Vista, it lags way behind 7 and also lags some behind XP, even in its unpatched release. At best this shows that Win 8 is a so-so OS, that is superior to Vista but inferior from a consumer response point of view than either 7 or XP.

Certainly not to OS quality.

Quality is a subjective thing. Aesthetics and comfort are going to be more important to the overall quality of an OS than 5 seconds saved on boot time or "use-cases".

Pretty sure that's what you're doing here.

Your the one that is ignoring industry figures, several OEM coming out against Windows 8 and leading tech tracking firms blaming PC sales slowdown partially on Windows 8 because you don't want to see that Windows 8 is failing.

I understand it, you're simply wrong, or speaking about things which aren't relevant.

I'm talking about the only things that are relavent to the success or failure of an OS by a corporation's standards. Sales and adoption are the only true metric. Your the one stuck on irrelevent things.

1. Consumer PC sales are way down because people are buying ipads and sticking with their old PCs.

2. Corporate sales are roughly steady.

3. Corporate clients are upgrading to Windows 7 because they've been planning to for years.

4. Windows 7 adoption rate was inflated because of corporations who skipped over Vista, and when 7 came out, they could no longer justify staying on an 8 year-old operating systems.

That can pretty much entirely explain Windows 8 adoption rates compared to Windows 7.

No your not looking at actual numbers again. Windows 8's adoption rate is less than 1/3 of Win 7's was. Computer sales have not been sliced to 1/3 of what they were when Win 7 was released. Ipads have not cut PC sales by 70%. This figure include both consumer and corporation sales. In other words, your explanation perhaps accounts for 1/3 of the different.

The other 2/3 aren't accounted for. You just don't want to face the obvious fact that people aren't buying Windows 8 because they don't like it, despite the fact that several OEMs and industry experts are now saying that Win 8's failure is a part of the reason for the especially slow PC sales this quarter. Your not listening or acknowledging anything that you don't want to hear. Your still stuck on things that the rest of the industry and consumer base simply doesn't care about and has zero relevence in the success or failure of an OS.

 

[Zelig]

That's extremely weak data compared to industry sales and adoption figures.

But that's data about customer satisfaction, which you haven't provided any of.

Quality is a subjective thing.

Only in part.

Aesthetics and comfort are going to be more important to the overall quality of an OS than 5 seconds saved on boot time or "use-cases".

Of course you'd say that, since you can't show any problem use cases.

vYour the one that is ignoring industry figures, several OEM coming out against Windows 8 and leading tech tracking firms blaming PC sales slowdown partially on Windows 8 because you don't want to see that Windows 8 is failing.[/QUOTE]

Your premise is false, I have no vested interest in not seeing Windows 8 fail.

I'm talking about the only things that are relavent to the success or failure of an OS by a corporation's standards. Sales and adoption are the only true metric. Your the one stuck on irrelevent things.

I don't care about Microsoft's success, I just care about educating people that Windows 8 is no worse than Windows 7.

No your not looking at actual numbers again.

I just provided justification for the numbers, which you can't disprove.

 

[Iranon]

Why would anyone expect Windows 8 to equal the initial success of Windows 7?

When 7 came out, XP was getting more than long in the tooth and Vista considered a failure.
When 8 came out, 7 was very well liked and did what most people wanted from their OS. Those still on XP (ancient by now) may not be keen on a seemingly big change and upgrade to 7.

Releasing a glorified service pack may get better results than trying something new, but you can't do that forever.

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

Windows 8 is worse than Windows 7 in the sense that MS is tightening their grip on consumers. The same happened in part with the "Steam era" of games. Most gamers simply bent over and took it, they linked hundreds of dollars worth of games to one account. Steam can change it's EULA at any moment and you must agree to the changes or all those games go bye bye.

This is the trending movement, our digital lives are coming increasingly under control of greedy power/data hungry corporations and/or the government. Take a look at the new '6 strikes' rule against torrent users implemented by several large ISPs. Sadly far to many consumers cannot see the forest for the trees and buy into this crap, hook line and sinker.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

Windows 8 is worse than Windows 7 in the sense that MS is tightening their grip on consumers. The same happened in part with the "Steam era" of games. Most gamers simply bent over and took it, they linked hundreds of dollars worth of games to one account. Steam can change it's EULA at any moment and you must agree to the changes or all those games go bye bye.

This is the trending movement, our digital lives are coming increasingly under control of greedy power/data hungry corporations and/or the government. Take a look at the new '6 strikes' rule against torrent users implemented by several large ISPs. Sadly far to many consumers cannot see the forest for the trees and buy into this crap, hook line and sinker.

Hopefully this still slow this crap down for Windows, as long as Windows 8 flops bad enough.

 

[Zelig]

Windows 8 is worse than Windows 7 in the sense that MS is tightening their grip on consumers.

Except they haven't taken away a single consumer option that Windows 7 has.

 

[Archbob]

But that's data about customer satisfaction, which you haven't provided any of.

Even your data says that its inferior to both windows 7 and Xp, there's really no data saying its better or even equal to 7 or XP.

Of course you'd say that, since you can't show any problem use cases.

Your the one that is ignoring industry figures, several OEM coming out against Windows 8 and leading tech tracking firms blaming PC sales slowdown partially on Windows 8 because you don't want to see that Windows 8 is failing.

Your just ignoring all the circumstantial and hard evidence that Windows 8 is failing with consumers then. I'm not really sure how you can't see it.

I just provided justification for the numbers, which you can't disprove.

I just did disprove them by actually analyzing sales trends and that your weak explanations don't explain the 70-75% drop in adoption rates from Win 7 to Win 8, something you can't refute. Your justification explains maybe 1/3 of the drop, the other 2/3 are just from people not wanting Windows 8. The numbers from your explanations simply don't match up or explain things away. Leading technology tracking firms and OEMs are now coming out openly against Windows 8 because consumers don't want it and we've posted several articles showing that. You can ignore it if you want but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I don't care about Microsoft's success, I just care about educating people that Windows 8 is no worse than Windows 7.

Well the question here is "has Microsoft stumbled" and by any metric that actually matters, the answer is "yes".

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

Except they haven't taken away a single consumer option that Windows 7 has.

It's not what's been taken away but rather what they are forcing on you.

 

[sophie]

It's not what's been taken away but rather what they are forcing on you.

What they are "forcing" on you is entirely optional and you can use Windows 8 without ever experiencing it.

 

[GenMarshall]

why does MS not create a way to set it so you can automatically boot into desktop mode without having to see the Metro UI every time you start up?

Better yet, have it as an option given to you when you first run/install Windows 8.

 

[Zelig]

Even your data says that its inferior to both windows 7 and Xp, there's really no data saying its better or even equal to 7 or XP.

It says the customer reception is mildly worse. ie. You and Tommy V don't like it, about a dozen other people in this thread are fine with it.

Your just ignoring all the circumstantial and hard evidence that Windows 8 is failing with consumers then. I'm not really sure how you can't see it.

There isn't any.

I just did disprove them by actually analyzing sales trends and that your weak explanations don't explain the 70-75% drop in adoption rates from Win 7 to Win 8, something you can't refute. Your justification explains maybe 1/3 of the drop, the other 2/3 are just from people not wanting Windows 8. The numbers from your explanations simply don't match up or explain things away. Leading technology tracking firms and OEMs are now coming out openly against Windows 8 because consumers don't want it and we've posted several articles showing that. You can ignore it if you want but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

You have no idea what how much of the drop my justifications explain.

Well the question here is "has Microsoft stumbled" and by any metric that actually matters, the answer is "yes".

Not by the metric of "quality of software".

It's not what's been taken away but rather what they are forcing on you.

What are they forcing on me?

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

What are they forcing on me?

Their agenda. STIM

Surveillance
Trend
Impulse
Monopoly

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

Better yet, have it as an option given to you when you first run/install Windows 8.

That would be awesome. The start menu should also have stayed as an option. These two features would have likely prevented Windows 8 from failing. Some simple mistakes by Microsoft has easily cost them a lot of money. Best case scenario, they write Metro off as a lost cause since Windows RT is also failing.

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

But that wouldn't further the MS agenda, hence it'll never happen.

MS actually doesn't care about it's costumers. As far as they are concerned, if we don't like what they have planned for us we can just #dealwithit.

 

[Zelig]

Their agenda. STIM

Surveillance
Trend
Impulse
Monopoly

Okay, but hyperbole aside, what specifically does Windows 8 force on me?

That would be awesome. The start menu should also have stayed as an option. These two features would have likely prevented Windows 8 from failing. Some simple mistakes by Microsoft has easily cost them a lot of money. Best case scenario, they write Metro off as a lost cause since Windows RT is also failing.

You realize the start screen works just as well as the start menu?

And how on earth has it cost them money? You think people decided to buy ipads instead of PCs because they couldn't get a PC with Windows 7?

MS actually doesn't care about it's costumers. As far as they are concerned, if we don't like what they have planned for us we can just #dealwithit.

Well, they're a corporation, they're no worse than Apple, and probably better than Google, in terms of caring about customers.

And the #dealwithit guy got fired.

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

Okay, but hyperbole aside, what specifically does Windows 8 force on me?

It's not just about you, you are a minority demographic same as me. I'm interested in the mainstream users who aren't powerusers. Windows 8 is a platform for consuming content first and foremost and that's what your Average Joe is using it for.

 

[Zelig]

It's not just about you, you are a minority demographic same as me. I'm interested in the mainstream users who aren't powerusers. Windows 8 is a platform for consuming content first and foremost and that's what your Average Joe is using it for.

That's what your Average Joe is using Windows 7 for too.

 

[innonimatu]

1. Consumer PC sales are way down because people are buying ipads and sticking with their old PCs.

And Microsoft produced a version of their toy OS to fight for that new field. And failed. The OEMs won't touch it and Microsoft can't shift its own inventory.

And Microsoft tried making a Windows 8thish version of their mobile OS and sell it through the major mobile phone manufacturer. The former major mobile phone manufacturer, soon to file for bankruptcy for betting the farm on Windows Phone.

Notice any trend? Fail, fail, fail. They haven't just stumbled, they fell. They're doing to their desktop OS the same think they did to Nokia: ruin it by using it as a vehicle to try to gain a foothold on the mobile field. Albeit more slowly because there's a slower turnover of hardware and software in desktop computing.

 

[Zelig]

And Microsoft produced a version of their toy OS to fight for that new field. And failed. The OEMs won't touch it and Microsoft can't shift its own inventory.

And Microsoft tried making a Windows 8thish version of their mobile OS and sell it through the major mobile phone manufacturer. The former major mobile phone manufacturer, soon to file for bankruptcy for betting the farm on Windows Phone.

Notice any trend? Fail, fail, fail. They haven't just stumbled, they fell. They're doing to their desktop OS the same think they did to Nokia: ruin it by using it as a vehicle to try to gain a foothold on the mobile field. Albeit more slowly because there's a slower turnover of hardware and software in desktop computing.

Yes, the complaint that Windows 8 isn't enough of an improvement over Windows 7 is valid, but outright failure can hardly be determined in the short term.

I've commented on RT before - the real problem MS has with RT is that they were undercut by Intel, and there's now no essential hardware advantage to ARM processors in tablet/netbook form factors versus Atom processors.

I dunno how soon you think Nokia is going to to file for bankruptcy... they certainly aren't doing much worse than any Android manufacturer who isn't Samsung.

 

[kiwitt]

Microsoft won't fail ... just that they need to adjust to a post-PC environment. IBM had to pretty much do that when post-main-frame era came as well, and look how well they are coping now.

Microsoft have a lot of strengths still in the corporate sector, where Windows/Office/Server, etc will still be required.

As to Tablets/Phone, that battle is already lost to Apple and Android, who are continuing to grow. As to the XBOX, it is just a toy and a very small part of microsoft revenue stream.