Has Southeast Asia ever had a Civ

[flyingchicken]

On Korea:
Oh, alright. Natives win.

On "Cataphracts:"
Their helmets are clearly indicative of Macedonian successor state.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Actually, I wasn't referring to the helmets in that post; both of my statements were directed at the "northeast Asia" comment.

And yes, I do agree that they suspiciously look Greek-ish. I'm thinking Seleucids or perhaps even Byzantine Kataphraktoi.

 

[flyingchicken]

Actually, I was referring to cyberxkhan when i gave the Cataphract comment.

 

[andrewlt]

I grew up in the Philippines before migrating to the U.S. after high school. The country is not civilized yet, especially judging by the recent elections.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Actually, I was referring to cyberxkhan when i gave the Cataphract comment.

actually, its spelled cybrxkhan

anyways, it can't be seleucid because the sheild, as i said earlier, has a cross on it, meaning it is a christian nation.

this leaves us with the only possibility as the Byzantines (other political entities could apply, but the Byzantines seem the most likely to be picked as a civ)... meaning we probably got some Kataphraktoi!!! (and i think they are the awesomest cavalry ever to walk upon european soil )


but, anyways, returning to the original topic of this thread, if our assumptions are right, and they put in any southeast asian civ, then our prayers here will have been answered!!!

 

[that_student]

Has there actually ever been a civ from Oceania?

The aboriginals, but I don't think we will see them in BtS.

 

[timthetoolman70]

they didn't even invent a wheel. the only civ never to do so.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

There seems to be a consensus that the cataphract-like unit is a Byzantine UU. Even mrbee of IGN said "they're definitely cataphracts." But I am reserved, as usual, until we get official word...

 

[cybrxkhan]

well, there is a cross on the "cataphract"... so its definitely some kind of "christian nation" unit...

oh... and isn't the topic of this thread southeast asia and not kataphraktoi?

 

[flyingchicken]

Christian Cataphracts. Orthodox Church.

 

[Tee Kay]

hello, Viet brother! yes, we viets did use elephants... but it looks like those elephants are more style-resemblant of the Khmer or possibly Thai.

The elephant looks Thai, but the clothes the Mahouts are wearing looks Vietnamese.

What the hell?

 

[Pratputajao]

Here's the screenie!!!!!!

Looks like Thai. Let's hope...

No, That is not Thai... I am not sure what it is? I have seen a few Thai made Historical movies (Suriothai being the most famous) and Thai Elephant units just dont look like that, much more regal. They may be Thai, Khmer or Burmese but thay got it wrong if so. Vietnamese? Maybe but doubtful.

I am geting a feeling SE asia will be skipped again...

 

[Tee Kay]

I am geting a feeling SE asia will be skipped again...

DON'T SAY THAT! Haven't you heard? If in a jungle don't speak of tigers...

 

[cybrxkhan]

I am geting a feeling SE asia will be skipped again...

no..............nevar..............

anyways, if it is not Thai, then that leaves us with the Khmer and the Viets, the only two likely possibilities for Southeast Asia.

i suppose now on closer inspection, the clothes of the guys on the elephant do look... Vietnamese-ish... but not necessarily 100% Vietnamese... especially the hats... ack, that sucks, i'm a Viet, i'm supposed to know... ... the elphants, i think you couold pass them off as Vietnamese. though it could be too plain.

anyways, heres a pic of a Vietnamese elephant. compare and contrast.

if you look really close, however, maybe it could actually be Viet! but only maybe.


anyways, given that Civ has had a *few* historial discrepancies, overexaggerations, etc., etc., like having Praetorians instead of Legionaries, etc., etc., i think... well, i think that the possibility of a southeast asian civ is still quite very possible.

 

[Pratputajao]

Khmer, Thai, and Burmese would all outfit their Elephants very simmilar. I think Viet is a better guess...But it dont really look Viet to me either and I am not sure Viets were known for there elephants in war. Also is that a Large crossbow type weapon on the back of the elephant in front of the Mohout? What the hell is that? I have never heard of such a thing, anyone know what that is? Just have to wait and see. Maybe Moghuls or Gupta..hehe..who knows?! I just wish they would let us know whos in already!

 

[Pratputajao]

Having done just a quick internet research into "elephant mounted ballista" I found the following-- The archery evolved into more advanced weapons, and several Khmer and Indian kings have utilized giant crossbow platforms (similar to the Ballista) to fire long armor piercing shafts to kill other enemy War Elephants and chariots/cavalry. there is no mention of Vietnam or Siam doing the same (though most of Khmer fighting tactics would have been used by the Thais) Also I read that Champa used a simmilar weapon...so Viet isnt entirely out as they took the Champa Kingdom.

So it seems I am incorect and SE asia is in (unless they are going with some obscrure Indian empire)

I would say Best guess is Khmer is in. ( though I instist That Thai would be far better given the time frame)

We will see.

 

[Koelle]

Are the Khmers dressed like this. I dont think so. They look pretty like Vietnamese dress to me.

In ancient time, when there were neither Khmer nor Siam, Vietnamese were already well-known for their elephant warfare. Vietnamese heroines such as Trung Sisters or Queen Trieu all rode on elephants into battles. Here is another Vietnamese war elephant

and here the Khmer one

About the huge crossbow, it reminds me of legend of the Viet Magic Crossbow. It is said that a single arrow shot from this crossbow could kill hundreds, even thousands of enemies. Many believe that crossbows were in used first in Vietnam. I dont know if the Khmers ever used crossbows before or were well known for usiung them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_D&#...1.BB.95_Loa_Th.C3.A0nh_and_the_Magic_Crossbow

 

[Pratputajao]

Are the Khmers dressed like this. I dont think so. They look pretty like Vietnamese dress to me.

In ancient time, when there were neither Khmer nor Siam, Vietnamese were already well-known for their elephant warfare. Vietnamese heroines such as Trung Sisters or Queen Trieu all rode on elephants into battles. Here is another Vietnamese war elephant

and here the Khmer one

About the huge crossbow, it reminds me of legend of the Viet Magic Crossbow. It is said that a single arrow shot from this crossbow could kill hundreds, even thousands of enemies. Many believe that crossbows were in used first I dont know if the Khmers ever used crossbows before or were well known for usiung them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_D&#...1.BB.95_Loa_Th.C3.A0nh_and_the_Magic_Crossbow

I agree, the dress certaintly doesnt look Khmer...yet they(and the chams) are the only ones who are specifically mentioned using this kind of Elephant mounted weapon. Like I said it could be Thai, Khmer or Burmese, but the costuming looks all wrong. I thought the garb looked Chinese at first. Burman Holy men would wear headgear simmilar (though I doubt the doubled as Mouhuts)

One particular reference had pointed to the spread of double bow technology out of China. It was when in A.D. 1171 according to Chinese records, Ji Yangzhun was sent from Song dynasty China to Champa to teach the Chams in the use of the multibow siege crossbow. Not long after this date, double-bow arcuballistas appeared in 13th century A.D. Khmer bas relief sculptures on the walls of Bayon (Angkor Thom) and at Banteay Chmar. The Khmer, enemies of the Cham, very possibly adopted the technology from the Chams in their many wars for supremacy over the Indochina region. Siege crossbows were probably used by both the Khmers and the Chams in their wars with each other.

I have read many texts like the above but I have yet to see Vietnam or Siam mentioned in using this.. there is no way they are going to put the Chams in So I guess we're going to get Khmer dressed Like the Vietnamese, the Chinese or Burmese holy men

I am sure the creators are having a chuckle at our investigations..hehe.. but i am learning something. They could have eliminated the guessing game if they had just went with thai and used duel sword weilding Krabi krabong warriors!!

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

The costumes mean squat with Firaxis. They aren't very good with units(the immortal was not a horseman...) I bet it is Khmer. Although I would add srivijaya and malacca but thats just me.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Well, portrayals of civs and units in the Civ series haven't always been accurate and it seems that the devs are more likely just to go with the more popular images (Samurai represented as katana-wielding swordsmen as opposed to horse archers, for example ).