HBO: A Game of Thrones (ASOIAF)

[PeteAtoms]

Yeah, I was referring to sexually graphic scenes. Maybe I haven't watched those movies you mentioned, and i don't remember Taxi Driver that well. It could also be the American culture. I do find it odd that graphic violence is so much more acceptable in media and to younger audiences than sex and nudity. It is a crazy thing, and my reaction to the Game of Thrones series must be evidence of the effect this has had on me.

I did enjoy the 5th episode more than the 4th. Poor Boromir

 

[Yeekim]

Overall, I found the stories of the tourney to be disappointing compared to how they came off in the book itself. I guess when I read the book I had imagined the tourney to be huge, and that there would have been a huge audience to witness everything.

Yeah, that's where the series has fallen short badly. What about Dothraki "horde"? Or Vaes Dothrak, that was supposed to fit all the khalasars at one time, if need be? On the other hand, this was entirely expected and is not to be held against the makers. To do it right, they would have had to throw completely insane amounts of money at it.

 

[Leoreth]

The tournament basically shrunk from "huge public event" to "members of the court only". Maybe Ned was more successful in his attempts to cut the costs in this version of events? It doesn't match up quite with the reports of King's Landing getting filled up with people though ...

On yesterday's episode: it surprised me that they showed Loras/Renly this explicitly (I've already thought Loras' smile at him during the tournament was too obvious). I really liked how it was done in the books, where it was never shown or outright stated, but alluded to on a number of occasions. Anyway, it's HBO, it's futile to ask them to let a homoerotic scene pass.

I liked the Cersei/Robert scene this episode, by the way. Iirc they never talk to each other this relaxed (both knowing its only put on though) in the books.

The chemistry between Varys and Littlefinger is also great. Does somebody know if Books-Littlefinger also knew Varys's been meeting with Illyrio?

 

[PeteAtoms]

Read an article about last night's episode and caught this:

And Ned's final mistake is to lie when he's confronted by Jaime Lannister — saying that he ordered Tyrion Lannister arrested for his crimes. It doesn't really ring true anyway — since why would Ned tell his wife to arrest Tyrion, instead of doing it himself when Tyrion returned to King's Landing? (Obviously, it would be harder to seize Tyrion with his family around, but if Ned really believed he had grounds, that wouldn't stop him.) By taking the credit/blame for his wife's actions, Ned is being proud but also doing something he seldom seems to worry about — he's saving face. What else could Ned do at this point? Maybe press Jaime for the truth about what happened to Bran — something Jaime knows rather a lot about. Might not do any good, but then you never know.

Is the reason Ned lied about ordering his wife to arrest the imp because he is proud and trying to save face? I thought it was to protect his wife. Just wondering which it is, because the reality would definitely affect the way I view this character.

 

[Karalysia]

where are you guys watching this? I need something online.

 

[Leoreth]

I've always interpreted it your way, too, and imo the grudging way in which Sean Bean delivers the line supports this. Ned definitely wanted to get Cat out of harms way should the Lannisters ever catch her. Maybe it was a bad idea to openly acknowledge it in that situation because it escalated things, but it is Eddard Stark after all.

 

[PeteAtoms]

where are you guys watching this? I need something online.

It's on HBO television. As far as watching it online, the only legal way I can find is subscribing to HBO's streaming service, HBO GO.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

The tourney was quite a disappointment without the melee and Thoros of Myr, but I really like the new scenes that weren't in the book.
While the TV-format can 't can't show us directly the thought processes and inner monologues it also isn't constrained by the whereabouts of the book's POV characters and can give us the nice exchange of threats between Varys and Littlefinger and the royal couple in private. Varys' face when Littlefinger mentioned a "foreign dignitary" was brilliant and the friendly chat between Jaime Lannister and Jory Cassel makes the ending of episode five much more shocking.

Don't read the spoiler if you haven't read the first book yet.

Spoiler :

And I was quite shocked. I've read A Game of Thrones almost four years ago, and in my memory Jory was killed much later by the city guard when Ned confronts Cersei. Did they change that for the show or has my memory failed me ?

It also looks like they now finally have most of the exposition out of the way and it's time for people to die.

What I really didn't like was how they beat us over the head with the gay thing. That was supposed to be far more subtle. Even without the shaving scene it was already too obvious.

 

[Leoreth]

Spoiler :

No, Jory was killed by Jaime during that encounter in the books as well.

 

[Scratch]

The tournament basically shrunk from "huge public event" to "members of the court only". Maybe Ned was more successful in his attempts to cut the costs in this version of events? It doesn't match up quite with the reports of King's Landing getting filled up with people though ...

On yesterday's episode: it surprised me that they showed Loras/Renly this explicitly (I've already thought Loras' smile at him during the tournament was too obvious). I really liked how it was done in the books, where it was never shown or outright stated, but alluded to on a number of occasions. Anyway, it's HBO, it's futile to ask them to let a homoerotic scene pass.

I liked the Cersei/Robert scene this episode, by the way. Iirc they never talk to each other this relaxed (both knowing its only put on though) in the books.

The chemistry between Varys and Littlefinger is also great. Does somebody know if Books-Littlefinger also knew Varys's been meeting with Illyrio?

Yeah, I think the tournament was greatly scaled down from what was in the books. They also trimmed out how there was a melee and Robert wanted in on that, they televised him as wanting to joust. But they lost how Cersei goaded Robert along into wanting to do the melee by trying to order him not to.

The Robert/Cersei was not in the books, but I liked its addition here.

I can't remember if Littlefinger knew or not in the books. I don't remember any of the POV characters having a conversation with Littlefinger where he tells them about Varys meeting Illyrio. But I may have missed that if it's in there.

 

[Leoreth]

I could imagine the Varys/Littlefinger dynamic being brought up during one of the council meetings in a way that would've escaped Ned.

Spoiler :

This has huge implications for Littlefinger's later actions, though. For all the scheming he does later, I've always assumed he didn't know Daenerys' true capabilities in reconquering Westeros and that his current successes are undone this way.

If he knows about it, it'll be interesting to see how his plans will involve counteracting it and add another layer to the Varys/Littlefinger conflict at court.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Obviously I have forgotten a lot of details, but:

Spoiler :

I don't seee huge implications. We don't know how much Littlefinger actually knows about Varys and Syrio's dealings, and I think we don't even know about Varys' goals. He seems to conspire with Syrio to restore the Targaryen dynasty, yet Mormont is his spy and he tells Robert about the pregnancy.
And even if Littlefinger knew about the plan he could share Ned's opinion that Daenerys is a clueless child and the Dothraki no real threat because they'll stay on their continent.
As for Daenerys true capabilities: I'm not even sure if Illyrio anticipated that the eggs would hatch.

 

[Leoreth]

Spoiler :

First, Illyrio is the fat bearded guy. Syrio is Arya's "dancing" teacher

Second, I don't think Illyrio knew the eggs would hatch, either (else he would've kept her close to better control the dragons). But he doesn't know the khalasar will fall apart either, so at the moment Daenerys is still queen of 40,000 ferocious horseman, and Illyrio's the guy with a navy.

And I was talking about the later Meereen era, where Littlefinger moves to the Eyrie and seems to be working on taking over Westeros (he's close to controlling three kingdoms at the end of book four). All these plans don't take Daenerys' support on Westeros into account in the slightest.

Also, but I admit my memory's a bit iffy here, isn't it Ser Jorah who ultimately saves Daenerys from the poison? Under these circumstances, openly using him as an agent among the Dothraki is the best way for Varys to keep Dany safe.

 

[NovaKart]

Wow, full frontal nudity this time. Didn't expect that.

They showed some hetero sex (Theon) and it was more explicit than the gay sex. Why the double standard? Anyway, one of the guys was so effeminate that it was practically hetero.

I'm surprised about the breast feeding. I knew it was in the books but I didn't expect them to actually show that. I mean it looked like the kid was really sucking her breast. - On IMDB message board they say it was a fake boob, and yeah it did look really fake.

 

[Leoreth]

They showed some hetero sex (Theon) and it was more explicit than the gay sex. Why the double standard?

Different dramatical context?

Because seriously, the people that would complain about it are complaining already anyway.

Anyway, one of the guys was so effeminate that it was practically hetero.

Which one?

 

[NovaKart]

You have to ask which one?

If they're complaining already who cares? Let the gays have a chance for once. If people don't like it they can turn their head.

Also, we saw a horse get beheaded. Wow.

 

[Leoreth]

You have to ask which one?

I said that because Renly ain't the manly man either (it's the whole point of that scene after all).

If they're complaining already who cares? Let the gays have a chance for once. If people don't like it they can turn their head.

That's why I believe they had dramatic reasons. They wanted the scene to end with a shot of Renly's face.

 

[Yeekim]

I said that because Renly ain't the manly man either (it's the whole point of that scene after all).

Yeah, but if your supposed Knight of Flowers, a great champion at arms, looks like he'd never be able to lift a lance, much less successfully joust with one, you probably shouldn't show him shirtless.

We'll never need "huge and freakishly strong" Brienne to kick the s**t out of him, it looks like Arya would do just as nicely.

 

[Leoreth]

I'm wondering how ugly they dare to make Brienne anyway.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Judging from the characters so far they'll take some slightly above-average tall, fit and Hollywood Homely ie. only vaguely attractive woman. I hope she'll at least bothers to wash her hair with soap to look scruffy.
And yes, Loras was bad. I'm more muscular and I'm not a member of a medieval warrior caste.