Help me get better on Emperor!

[Fish Man]

@Gumbolt : Did you impose a no-war condition on yourself? You could've easily gotten almost your entire continent, and teched three times as fast because of it.

 

[Fish Man]

What is best for GS on space? Should they be settled or bulbed? They are worth 1500+ 3xpop. So one could add 1500+64x3=1692 right now. Settled right now would add 6x1.75=10bpt. With OU and other buildings could be 6x3.25=19bpt. Even more if I can switch to rep civic.

So better to bulb edu? Current tech levels would be a 6 turn tech?

Yep, bulb. The goal of space games like these is to get to communism ASAP, and then cover everything with workshops. After the initial academy you should definitely bulb with at least 2 - ideally 1 GS for edu and 1 for PP or chemistry or astro or sci meth. After that, start saving GP (try to mix them up) to chain a golden age at the end of the game to build the spaceship as fast as possible. With the economics GM (which you should have no trouble getting on this map with this difficulty) do a trade mission. I recommend teching economics only after communism, though. Everything is subservient to SP caste workshops and watermills.

 

[Bibor]

Did you impose a no-war condition on yourself?

At one point the thread agreed on a peaceful space race to turn it into a sort of an empire management tutorial.

 

[Gumbolt]

@Gumbolt : Did you impose a no-war condition on yourself? You could've easily gotten almost your entire continent, and teched three times as fast because of it.

Yes that was the point the OP was making. He wanted to do a peaceful space victory. So I have largely stuck to this and taken measures to ensure peace at times. So did Bibor. With only 4 Ai here taking over this continent might give domination win anyway. I could of easily wiped out or captured most of the AI.

Not sure I can do this in 250 turns. My economy with 12 cities is too slow science wise. I was slower on CS. I figure I was close to a CS slingshot circa 875bc. Having checked back I was 1 turn too slow. Also slipped monarchy in too. I think you could of managed this with some beelining.pre 1500bc Oracle is early.

 

[Fish Man]

Yes that was the point the OP was making. He wanted to do a peaceful space victory. So I have largely stuck to this and taken measures to ensure peace at times. So did Bibor. With only 4 Ai here taking over this continent might give domination win anyway. I could of easily wiped out or captured most of the AI.

Not sure I can do this in 250 turns. My economy with 12 cities is too slow science wise. I was slower on CS. I figure I was close to a CS slingshot circa 875bc. Having checked back I was 1 turn too slow. Also slipped monarchy in too. I think you could of managed this with some beelining.pre 1500bc Oracle is early.

I took @zoiks statement not to mean no warring, but to mean no neglecting city development in favor of forcing an early dom win by just taking over stuff until you hit the limit. So I think I should be ok with a bit of aggressive expansion, as long as I develop the land properly afterwards?

Either way, in case OP hasn’t realized: riverside cottages > farms by miles, especially for fin.

 

[Fish Man]

Yes that was the point the OP was making. He wanted to do a peaceful space victory. So I have largely stuck to this and taken measures to ensure peace at times. So did Bibor. With only 4 Ai here taking over this continent might give domination win anyway. I could of easily wiped out or captured most of the AI.

Not sure I can do this in 250 turns. My economy with 12 cities is too slow science wise. I was slower on CS. I figure I was close to a CS slingshot circa 875bc. Having checked back I was 1 turn too slow. Also slipped monarchy in too. I think you could of managed this with some beelining.pre 1500bc Oracle is early.

Not possible; I got Oracle ASAP because Izzy is very aggressive with that wonder.

Spoiler :

Went back in time and peeked at WB to see if I could've delayed it more. My intuition served me well; Izzy has marble and stone and was halfway done with the wonder when I finished it (and I had researched about 1/2 or 1/4 of math). Couldn't have taken anything else better with it even if I wanted to.

 

[Bibor]

I took @zoiks statement not to mean no warring, but to mean no neglecting city development in favor of forcing an early dom win by just taking over stuff until you hit the limit. So I think I should be ok with a bit of aggressive expansion, as long as I develop the land properly afterwards?

Either way, in case OP hasn’t realized: riverside cottages > farms by miles, especially for fin.

In that case we won’t be able to compare playstyles :/

 

[Fish Man]

In that case we won’t be able to compare playstyles :/

Alright, fine, I'll bite. No warring for me either!

 

[Fish Man]

In that case we won’t be able to compare playstyles :/

Also, if the challenge condition is no warring...then that means the landgrab will have to happen quickly here, and I will have to delay the AI somehow.

Hence, I bribed Zara into Izzy. Now both are building military units and not settlers, allowing me more time to expand into the unfilled space .

 

[Fish Man]

I'm sorry guys, I can't do it. Spanish cities are sitting right next to my border garrisoned by 2 archers, and I'm forbidden to just walk up to them with 2 maces and take them. Playing with this degree of handicap in a space game just isn't fun for me. I think I'll continue this normally and play it close to HoF style, getting as close to the dom limit as possible without going over. If we're trying to teach @zoiks how to play normally then I personally don't feel it's productive deviating this far from what's optimal and just turning into an ultra-pacifist (but that's just my opinion). And besides...I think I gave a model early game with my t97 save (might post details later). So I'll start back there but this time start preparing for my rampage. See y'all on Alpha Centauri .

 

[Bibor]

I'm sorry guys, I can't do it.

Aha! We found Undefeatable's weak spot! Guys and gals, from now on - only "permanent peace" forum games!
I have another idea, how about you upload 5-6 saves (every 50 turns perhaps) and I make a video tutorial that describes what you did and why, in comparison with my own video playhtrough?

 

[Gumbolt]

I was able to grab 12 cities quite easily on mine. I was sharing some borders with Spanish. I left all the wasteland. Agreed it's not the most exciting game going space peacefully. Takes a lot longer. With your starting land and no barbs it will make early attacks much easier. The Ai on emperor tech quite slowly here.

I think we both rexxed to 9 cities quite early. I grabbed the western ones last as I knew I would settle these. At one point I could of used infantry vs longbow for most AI. Even artilery. AI advancement in science was mainly due to me selling them techs each turn.

 

[Bibor]

@Undefeatable if you are looking for a HOF map, look no further from what I rolled today
Louis, pangaea, emperor, no huts, event are ON.

And the start...

Spoiler :

 

[Gumbolt]

The problem with a map like that is a lack of challenge. As long as you don't let jungle grow on the gems you should have 3 gems and gold. That would reduce the difficulty to Monarch level tech wise. Your effectively starting with 4 towns. You could easily have mace while AI are still on archers.

 

[Fish Man]

The problem with a map like that is a lack of challenge. As long as you don't let jungle grow on the gems you should have 3 gems and gold. That would reduce the difficulty to Monarch level tech wise. Your effectively starting with 4 towns. You could easily have mace while AI are still on archers.

That’s how HoF works. You’re expected to blow past the AI if you wanna set any sort of world record or attempt a playthrough that emulates that sort of goal.

And I’m already almost at maces in the Pacal game while the AI are in fact stuck on archers. That’s not too hard of a point to reach. I’ll be impressed with modern armor vs archers .

 

[Fish Man]

Aha! We found Undefeatable's weak spot! Guys and gals, from now on - only "permanent peace" forum games!
I have another idea, how about you upload 5-6 saves (every 50 turns perhaps) and I make a video tutorial that describes what you did and why, in comparison with my own video playhtrough?

Sure! That sounds like a great idea, continuing on in just a bit .

 

[Fish Man]

t115 or 1AD:

430bpt at 100% with 11 cities, 2 more coming soon. Just got printing press, which is what you usually want to go for right after CS to really supercharge your villages and towns. After that I think I'll knightrush the Spanish and maybe the Ethiopians. I want dem mids and stone.

Capital is raking in a nice 200bpt at this date.

Spoiler :

 

[Fish Man]

t128

Over 600bpt and almost at engineering. Getting ready to do some ..

Spoiler :

 

[zoiks]

I took @zoiks statement not to mean no warring, but to mean no neglecting city development in favor of forcing an early dom win by just taking over stuff until you hit the limit. So I think I should be ok with a bit of aggressive expansion, as long as I develop the land properly afterwards?

Either way, in case OP hasn’t realized: riverside cottages > farms by miles, especially for fin.

You're right, I wasn't particularly asking for permanent peace. But the way the games have played out it's probably for the best, otherwise it's an easy steam through Izzy's archers and beyond and there's less to learn from that.

I always used floodplain cottages but I'm sure I've read that opinion has changed on them. Maybe because of health (although this map has lots of health resources for the Mayans).

@Undefeatable I see from your t115 screenshot that you're not using the hills in the corn/wheat city as a production powerhouse. Why's that? Have you cottaged all cities?

 

[Fish Man]

You're right, I wasn't particularly asking for permanent peace. But the way the games have played out it's probably for the best, otherwise it's an easy steam through Izzy's archers and beyond and there's less to learn from that.

I always used floodplain cottages but I'm sure I've read that opinion has changed on them. Maybe because of health (although this map has lots of health resources for the Mayans).

@Undefeatable I see from your t115 screenshot that you're not using the hills in the corn/wheat city as a production powerhouse. Why's that? Have you cottaged all cities?

Generally, hills are not that good for production. You want to whip in the early game and use communist caste workshops in the late game. The former converts food to hammers at a roughly 2:1 ratio with a granary, which means that wet corn is essentially a 12h tile. The latter gives 2f4h/turn which is vastly superior to anything mines can produce. So, as you can see, hills hardly make a production powerhouse - strong food tiles and later in the game flat grassland (preferably with a river so you can get that levee bonus) are far better.

And besides, in a space game, especially early on, you prioritize commerce over hammers (exception is settlers/workers and the essential buildings, but those are whipped anyways) - until industrializing, commerce will provide the bulk of your research.