Help me get better on Emperor!

[Bibor]

I'd hate not to settle on both marble hills, so I'd go 1E, even if it loses the pigs in cap.

I wouldn't do it for aesthetic reasons, but also losing the oasis is such a waste. It's not clear to me that moving 1E is optimal here, especially given the diff. level.

 

[Gumbolt]

So a case of when the other 4 Ai go Oracle if at all. They would normally go SH first. Could be a 500bc Oracle date for them unless Spanish go Oracle early? In terms of bulbng Theo and COL. With this start they are 7-8 turn techs once you have cottages. You could easily do a Civil Service oracle or GP bulb slingshot here while rexxing hard.You would need to avoid masonry and tech Maths/CS. Pends how soon you get the GP. 50 turns? Downside of no marble is lack of a hammer/commerce resource.

I really dislike bulbing 500-600 beaker techs. Especially when a scientist will give you an academy early on. That scientist could be adding 20+ beakers a turns. After 20-30 turns you have already repaid COL. If you get CS from Oracle that academy is much more valuable. You are not even planning for a scientist here. I think that is a mistake. If this is a space race you want a solid science base. Focus on cottages and the economy and use this to grab CS early. Don't spend time on wonder strategies. For me main advantage of theo is religion and early paper. With CS slingshot it's not needed.

Not used to bat 4.1. Didn't notice the terrain near gem city was jungle. (When is gems ever not a jungle!) I am more used to the BTS standard graphics. Overall little rush here for marble. You could even go alphabet and trade for many of these techs?

Expansion vs science. Focusing on Oracle/SH may mean you lose city sites. If the OP plays a peaceful game he will want to head south and east ASAP to secure the best land. Those flood plains are too good to lose. Same for getting an early strong science base.

 

[Bibor]

Well it wouldn't be natural if we didn't all have our style of play, I agree that the first 50 turns could be played out in at least 3-4 different versions. That's why I like reading up on team games in this forum.

 

[sampsa]

I wouldn't do it for aesthetic reasons, but also losing the oasis is such a waste. It's not clear to me that moving 1E is optimal here, especially given the diff. level.

Well, I think it's most aesthetic to get rid of yucky food negative tiles. Oasis is +2, which is certainly cool, but +2 is definitely superior. We don't waste the oasis though, we can claim it by 2nd or 3rd city.

 

[Bibor]

Well, I think it's most aesthetic to get rid of yucky food negative tiles.

But i love negative food tiles!

EDIT: I'm a bit of an old fashioned Civ4 player. You know, the breed that still believes in courhouses, marketplaces and the like. I build the Stonehenge because it's convenient to just have them border pops, even if it costs me a city. I don't mind great prophets, I either bulb something with them or save them for a golden age (sometimes also settle them). I'm not looking for a T150 win, so I take a gradual approach to introducing deity-level decisions.

For example, teching hunting vs. agriculture to hook up pigs was the optimal call, I still decided I'd rather have agriculture, so I can go pottery sooner.

 

[zoiks]

@Bibor , I've watched and mirrored your game and I'm going to continue from here. I'd be delighted if you could continue so that I can see how I compare but already this is way beyond what I'd hoped for when I started the thread. And thanks to all other contributions too, I've read them all closely.

I would have built roads in my empire, whether to hook up the resources or link the cities. I was surprised that the second city was connected along the river for horses from the capital without fishing - I must have misunderstood that.


@sampsa No, I hadn't built SH in that screenshot, that's just how the culture pop happened.

 

[Gumbolt]

The river would connect many of your resources/cities without roads. As long as your cities/resources are on the river and have your culture. The resources too. One of the reasons early roads here are not needed. My gems, corn and capital were all on the river so had trade routes.

Fishing does not give trade routes. Sailing gives trade routes on coast and rivers.

Copying Bibor is fine but I am not sure he is playing a peaceful space game. So he may decide to wipe out a nearby Ai where your intending to expand peacefully. To do this some aggresive expansion is needed. Even emperor Ai will expand somewhat fast to 4-5 cities. With nearby forest you shoud be able to beat them to some sites.

 

[lymond]

Also, while not applicable here at the moment, it should be noted that cities can be linked via coast - without Sailing - if said coast is covered by your culture.

(I hope your next game is played with normal settings)

 

[Bibor]

@Bibor , I've watched and mirrored your game and I'm going to continue from here. I'd be delighted if you could continue so that I can see how I compare but already this is way beyond what I'd hoped for when I started the thread. And thanks to all other contributions too, I've read them all closely.

I would have built roads in my empire, whether to hook up the resources or link the cities. I was surprised that the second city was connected along the river for horses from the capital without fishing - I must have misunderstood that.

I'm glad that you liked it! I'm going to continue my game, perhaps even today, although I'm a bit ill at the moment.

@Gumbolt is right - when going space, I usually like to "utilize my defensive force offensively" at one point, and then consolidate my empire for the fastest possible tidy space race. It depends on neighbors, because I really hate bordering a civ that built the Sistine Chapel - the only reason I usually build it myself (costs 600 hammers, but less than an army to capture it) and some civs just love to go culture (Pericles is one of these guys).

When possible, I like to postpone this war till when techs for space overlap with military advances, which is usually in the infantry+artillery era, but, you know, construction for Mayans is a pretty important tech, so...

 

[Bibor]

Part 2 is up!
Summary:
- T50 to T93.
- managed to grab The Oracle, took Metal Casting
- blocked off a huge swath of land with 4 new cities, secured room for 4-5 more

Possible branching from here:
- peaceful culture
- peaceful space with optional Pericles bash
- Cavalry rush domination or conquest

Attached empire overview and planned tech path.



EDIT: Part 3 is up as well.

 

[sampsa]

@sampsa No, I hadn't built SH in that screenshot, that's just how the culture pop happened.

Oh, is it because espionage is turned off? Man, those settings really screw up the game. And makes Stonehenge absolutely worthless (sorry Bibor )

Edit: just realised that it doesn't change the value of SH really, as only cap gets extra from espionage.

 

[Bibor]

And makes Stonehenge absolutely worthless (sorry Bibor )

Yeah didn't realise how messed up the culture pops are without espionage. 20 culture for first pop, that's definitely library then.

 

[Gumbolt]

Messed up slightly here as I left oracle a bit late. Over expansion slowed down science. Didn't quite make CS slingshot. Easily possible if you put hammers into Oracle to deter AI building it.

@ 100% science churning 147bpt. 20 of which comes from the academy in the capital. Tech choice is a bit skewed here. Once CS bpt will be even higher. Probably should of skipped monarchy. Ai are so slow tech wise here.

Avoiding Stone Henge here has probably helped science. Earlier academy for a space race is huge.

Main danger here could be Alex going war mode.

275bc. With CS the academy is worth 38 beakers per turn.

What did you do with your GP in end?

 

[Bibor]

@Gumbolt Settled the GP in capital to keep research afloat, got a scientist super-quick after that (engineer, 2 scientists, 2 wonders GPP) for the academy.
The third was again a GP, I reckon best to save him for a golden age later with this many (150+) worked tiles and MoM in the bag
Getting a GS or a GE next, depending on luck, either to help with Education or perhaps Mining Inc. or another Golden Age (got the artist from Music).
I'd really like a great merchant at some point (either for a Golden Age, Sushi or unit upgrades), so thinking about getting first to Economics, but not so sure about that.

 

[Gumbolt]

Settled the GP to keep science afloat? Are things really that bad? I am at 25 ad and at 100% science I am 383 beakers. Music was 2 turns for me.

Capital size 15. Growing nicely.I need to cottage the flood plains and hills soon.

Main downside is happiness with Spanish. May switch to her religion once I have golden age. Need to build G Lib after MoM.

Your at 500ad. Why your building all these religion builds I don't know. The Ai will spam their religion to you. Why you stopped at 7 cities is also strange. With so much land here the Ai will expand more than usual. You needed to grab the land. That pigs resource NE of your capital really needs to be improved.

You are a builder. Is this something you picked up from Civ 5 and 6? Apart from monst I rarely build religious buildings. Most other buildings are useless.

Why leave CS so late. With a great bureau capital you want this sooner. Also your capital needs to use food tiles and cottages to be great! Too many hammer tiles to complete non essential builds.

25ad with 70% science I am 268 beakers. You are 146. Almost double your science. If the CS slingshot had pulled off it might be higher.

 

[Bibor]

You are a builder. Is this something you picked up from Civ 5 and 6? Apart from monst I rarely build religious buildings.

25ad with 70% science I am 268 beakers. You are 146. Almost double your science. If the CS slingshot had pulled off it might be higher.

25 AD is Turn 116 and you have 268 beakers, on my T135 I have 253 beakers. That's a 20 turn difference, but, did you have Isabella plotting on you as I did? That put me off by a lot of turns to build defenses.
You can't just compare BPT like that if you didn't have to invest into military.

I only build monasteries or skip religious buildings completely, going for temples as well this time, because I'm going Sistine Chapel (either Isabella or Pericles are bound to grab it, and I just don't want to deal with that), and I also grabbed MoM, the Parthenon and GLib during those 134 turns. I think all three now have Theocracy, and I'd hate to lose those extra 4 hammers per city to hinduism, so either I build it myself or I pray one of the buddhists builds it.

And yes, I'm a builder. It's hard to learn why and how to stop being a builder if you don't gradually reduce buildings to a bare minimum. Since we are going to space, might as well have the core infrastructure in place. You'll notice I don't build corthouses or marketplaces, just the essentials (to which I added monasteries). I know this style might be strange to you, but if you look at it closely, everything I build synergizes well together, even if its not "optimal".

There's always the alternative of getting Ivory from Zara and elepult my way to victory with granaries, libraries, forges and ballcourts, because that's way more "optimal" than going space on this map.

 

[Fippy]

If you have to invest much into Emperor Isa plotting defense, you are certainly not playing optimal
Stuff can be done quicker and i think that's all Gumbo was saying, so yup you can compare games cos he's a bit better than you.
(i will just risk saying that now..)

 

[Bibor]

Of course he’s better it’s not a competition. I’m just stating the reasoning behind my moves. When she started plotting I had 2 warriors and 2 chariots, so I overreacted a bit. Perhaps. Maybe.

 

[Fippy]

Glad you are taking it well
I think you are putting much effort in, also with videos, so much to learn in this game.
Builder mentality can be fun, i think it's neither right or wrong to play HoF style or for fun, and being open for suggestions is important for improving.

Usually some basic counter units are enuf (let's say 2 Axes and 2 Spears?), and if her stack should be heavy on hmm Swords i.e. you can quickly whip 2 more Axes or so. Not many hammers must go into defense until things get really serious.
I like using average cities for such tasks (whipping counter units, 1 whip usually results in 2 if timed well), your capital should not be bothered i.e.

 

[Bibor]

@Fippy Playing on video is also more demanding, because it's entertainment first, gameplay quality second. You need to keep talking when you'd rather stop and think about your next move. And there's no stopping, so you live with whatever (stupid) decision you made