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[BTS] Help me get my first win on Monarch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by jnebbe, Mar 3, 2020.

  1. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Also 2nd settler will probably be faster, unless no 2nd worker is built before but that seems counterproductive with so many forests.

    Maybe not, but you said never build 2nd worker before a settler.
     
  2. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    True.

    However, maybe we should not de-rail further and stick to giving feedback that might help OP, in case he reads the posts. I'm sure mining a plains hill (intending to whip 4->2) and putting :hammers: into barracks can be viewed as sub-optimal plays, even if someone did that already 10 years ago.
     
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  3. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Kossin sometimes built two workers :hide:

    Yeah, I'll be honest, I lost all interest in helping OP after the what is the 4th or 5th thread of no listening to feedback and no responses...well, he has actually posted more than once in this thread. It is really deflating for those that are trying to help when the helpee does not collaborate, listen or ask why....

    I still have no clue why he plays with wonky settings or prefers vanilla civ iv
     
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  4. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Worker stuff
    Spoiler :

    Well my 2nd worker feedback wasn't related to anything ;)
    But it's an interesting topic, and imo sometimes the best play.

    Would be my first thought here too (without knowing details while playing..).
    China can go BW first, and there will be plenty work. Can see some decent city spots, but nothing that screams settler first,
    i had some good experiences with 2 workers. Usually i micro that thou, like starting him until first food was improved.
     
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  5. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Wonky settings? I thought that was how I was supposed to set up my next game.

    I knew about no villages and no events and thought no espionage was also standard.
     
  6. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    I'm very eager to learn if two workers really can be competitive. Krikav's points are noted, worker chopping an infinite forest generates 5:hammers:pt, but the thing is that there is no infinite forest. A connected 2nd city generates +1:commerce: if it's close enough, make it +2:commerce: when working a tile with +1:commerce:. (Source: Mao NC). I still don't know if the river connects 2nd city here, as the person who started this thread never replies to me. Anyway, assuming the river doesn't connect, 2nd city on say ph to the SE working a crappy 2:food:1:hammers: will generate 2:food:3:hammers:pt (i.e. slightly better than chopping an infinite forest). With the sheep improved, that's 4:food:3:hammers:1:commerce:pt, beating infinite chopping by a big margin. Loses 1:commerce: before connection I think (on this level, on deity would lose 2:commerce:), but connecting takes only 2 worker turns when wheel is available.

    So I think the only way worker-worker is competitive is when it allows you to found a 2nd city that is of much higher quality than say ph city center, plains sheep on this map. Not sure if there are such sites visible here.

    Let me know if I'm missing something. :)
     
  7. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @sampsa

    5H/turn for a worker chopping non-stop is just a rough benchmark, ofcourse it's much more complicated... When a worker has spent 5 turns imroving a irrigated corn the city that is working that tile now gained a boost of 3F per turn "forever". No extra workerturns invested required.

    I don't really know specifics and have no clue if it's better or not here on this current map.
    *Glancing at some of the screenshots again*
    No, likely not I would say.

    Key ingredients for me to consider lies in the capital area. Second and third city spots add to the consideration later.

    Things I think capital has to have for it to look nice to go worker->worker is:
    * Enough good tiles to improve early on. Say... you have 4-5 resources and/or some riverside grassland hill.
    * Good quaility food, so that capital has no troubles at all growing fast enough to start working all tiles in aproximatly the same pace the worker improves them.
    * Loads of forest to chop.

    In such a situation, a lone worker would have to make tough choices between chopping and improving tiles. Where as with a two worker approach, one worker can run down the chain of improvements while the other chops!
     
  8. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    I didn’t count the forests and assumed it was 10. I also assumed that 20 hammers every fourth turn is equal to 5 hammers per turn. I also assumed food and hammers are equal. So

    60 hammers invested
    5 hammers per turn for 40 turns
    7.94% yield

    (I know how to solve some of the formulas. I just don’t know how to optimize them in a game of CIV.)

    This is interesting! Where are the resident mathematicians and economists on this forum?
     
  9. gavenkoa

    gavenkoa Warlord

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    11/12/13/14/15/...F = 30H with granary and Bronze Working (depending on city size).
    Or 22/24/26/...F = 30H with BW but without granary.

    So F is more "efficient" than H most of the time.

    I believe that at max city capacity green mine has better conversion rate (1:3 as tile is 1F3H, while whip varies from almost 1:3 to 1:2). But it is important to quickly regrow to work more tiles.

    I'd build Wonder or costly army units with green mines if I'm at max city cap and have enough mines to convert food surplus to hammers. If you are in a scarce mine territory - whipping is the only answer.
     

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