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Help Wanted: Leaderhead Art Required

Discussion in 'Civ4 - CIV Gold' started by Wyz_sub10, Dec 23, 2007.

  1. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Mmm, looking fine already. Though indeed I don't think Imhotep was a Nubian; he was the father of Egyptian medicine and in the afterlife aquired a status comparable to Asklepios to the ancient Greeks. (And that was just part of his achievements...);)
     
  2. mourndraken

    mourndraken Chieftain

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    It's my opinion that he looks somewhat African here. Imhotep may have been born in Ankhtowë, a suburb of Memphis early in Egyptian history. However, other classical writers suggested that he was from the village of Gebelein, south of ancient Thebes. This area was/is very African.

    Imhotep, Doctor, Architect, High Priest, Scribe and Vizier to King Djoser
    If I pluck the feathers from Sitting Bull's headress, it's possible to use that hat on Imhotep ? I could grey out Sitting Bull's feathers, build an egyptian coat for him. Then I could Africanize Sitting Bull's face ...
     
  3. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    African for sure, Nubian never. Nubia is where Egypt got many slaves from and they certainly wouldn't treat an enemy like a demi-god (unless it was a conqueror ofcourse - as in the Late Period... Hey, things change, don't they?)

    BTW, the statues look nothing African to me. Ancient statues were mostly colourfully painted, as were the temples - they never were marble-white (unless unfinished, ofcourse). Also, Egyptians - then and now - are rather darkskinned, tanned, if you will. Curious how the first pic suggests a slightly elongated head - a sure pharaonic sign (but then, the pharao was the god-protector of the land, the living Horus) - well, in official ideology at least).
     
  4. mourndraken

    mourndraken Chieftain

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    the statue on the left looks like it was painted black. Check the arms and the protected flanks. This peice is almost 5,000 years old, so paint on more exposed surfaces has disappeared. My whole opionion that Imhotep was a black man is based on that. The statue on the right has African features as well, especially the mouth. Egyptian statues really don't usually have defined features like that. My mouth could have been cast more simply ... I think my foot can fit in there snugly ...

    The history between Kush and Egypt is long and interesting because they were friends, then rivals, and then enemies. During the time of Imhoptep, these nations were kin, allied, and Upper and Lower Egypt had not yet been thought of. There was only "this very Egypt".
     
  5. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    From the link you attached I read that one of Imhotep's titles was "Chancellor of the king of Lower Egypt", Zhoser (or Djoser), who, apart from ordering the building of the Step Pyramid of Sakkara, was fond of campaigning both in the Sinai and Nubia (quite impossible if Upper and Lower Egypt hadn't been united yet). All this places him in the 3rd dynasty (and the 1st unification of Upper and Lower Egypt may well have been pre-historic, according to the oldest sources).

    BTW, if Imhotep really was black, wouldn't the Nubians haven't made at least some sort of reference to such a high placed Nubian in the Egyptian empire?
     
  6. mourndraken

    mourndraken Chieftain

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    I think that you are supposing that race was an issue. Are you serious ? Do you think that hiroglyphs are the same as words ? Do you suppose that we can even hope that everything has been found, identified, translated correctly ? Egyptians reused statutes, temples, and even relocated entire cities. They took time to remove names from cartouches's and chisled the names off kings monuments.. There are so many reasons why the specific reference YOU require may not exist. Do you think that ancient people are a celeb concious as modern feebs ?

    I say he was black because of evidence. You say he wasn't black because you don't think it was possible. Open your eyes. OR make you own.

    >JEELEN I will not defend any of my creations from you. I'm going to continue to make my stuff. I will no longer respond to critics or I would not be able to make things. I've added you to my ignore list because when I read these theads, I don't care to get slammed after every post. If you keep after me I'll quit posting and return to being a guest. I just released a few things and I sure don't need your stamp of approval and you need to stop acting like some sort of internet stalker. This is the last time I speak about this.
     
  7. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

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    I don't want to interrupt here, but I will say only that the use of dark/light in depicting people actually had little to do with skin colour.

    Only offering that as an aside.

    Having said that.... I think this is an amazing model, but I would love to use this in replacing my Taharqa LH. Taharqa was certainly black, and as a pharaoh the dress would be bang-on appropriate!

    This is really good work!
     
  8. mourndraken

    mourndraken Chieftain

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    Hi Wyz_sub10
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8870
    I'm happy if my efforts add some enjoyment to anybody's game. It's great if you have found a home for this.
     
  9. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    1) I never criticized the Piye LH: I think he looks great.*
    2) I'm really looking forward to your Nazca LH.
    3) If you want to represent Imhotep as black, that's your prerogative. (I just don't agree. So what?)

    "And that's all I have to say about that." Forrest Gump

    *In fact I think you should start your own LH thread.
     
  10. mourndraken

    mourndraken Chieftain

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    Here is a button for the African Pharaoh:
    Yup I get moody when it comes to defending my creations. I'm not ignoring you anymore. Sorry.

    I have started only one thread and nobody replied. I'm new to modding and few people have seen anything that I've made. If some of the things I make end up included in other people's mods, then it's more likely that when I do release a modpack, people will actually download it. I have a leaderhead modpack that I'm building. There isn't enough original content in there yet. I'm building the pack up one LH at a time and creating some awareness about my efforts.
     
  11. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Cool, mourndraken! Eager to see more of your LHs!:) (And sorry for giving the wrong impression - I can be overly critical, I know...:blush:)
     
  12. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

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    mourndraken,

    I think your stuff is awesome. Like I said, if you can bang out some LHs for the Moche and Nacz and/or Mapuche, I would be thrilled!
     
  13. mourndraken

    mourndraken Chieftain

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    Thanks for the 5-star :lol:

    As far as LH choices go, why not use both ? or take Taharqua's head wrap and make it white and call him a Lybian ? on the texture, there is a single cast shadow which is fairly simple to throw across a whiteout. I dunno it's all in your hands...

    I had a good session working on Hummingbird yesterday and will continue tonight. I had a blue screen crash that wasted my last 20 or 30 minutes of effort. That crap happened just as I was completing his face. So no screenies until tomorrow at best.

    Don't sweat it. I'm flattered that you care to respond. I'm not always rational and I blame the Gaels in my ancestry ..
     
  14. mourndraken

    mourndraken Chieftain

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    this is how he looked before the blue screen of death

    I'll get this done today.
     
  15. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

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  16. mourndraken

    mourndraken Chieftain

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    any words for this lady ? Just getting ready to give her up to civfanatics.
    ver 1.0 here
     
  17. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

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  18. mourndraken

    mourndraken Chieftain

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    the XML calls her Theodora of Byzantium. She was requested by ambrox62 to be Queen Teuta of Illyria.
     
  19. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

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    I'm happy enough with our current Teuta and think she'd be a great replacement for Theodora.

    Any luck with Hummingbird yet?
     
  20. mourndraken

    mourndraken Chieftain

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    no Hummingbird yet. Sorry that's taking forever.
     

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