Heretic_Cata's All in One Mod - Expansion

[Blue Monkey]

mag-Lev Bullet Train?

 

[Heretic_Cata]

mag-Lev Bullet Train?

"Magnetic Levitation Transport" - sounds good. The only thing is it has to be a Small Wonder, but that's not that big a deal.
So unless there are any other suggestions i'll go with this.

Thanks Blue Monkey.

 

[Snakelover]

Hey, I just thought of something!
What about that important event in U.S. history where the railroad joined the east with the wild west?
It involved the Union Pacific, but I can't remember the name of the other one.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

The first transcontinential railway, one of the seven wonders of the industrial age according to the BBC. The other company was Central Pacific.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

That does sound important but Mass Transit System apears in the Modern Age (in the game). Like Chukchi said, it's a wonder of the Industrial Age.

 

[bd41094]

Looks like it will be a great mod and I sincerely thank you for realizing that not all people have awesome internet connections because mine stinks. You rock . I'm gonna tell you what I think once it gets done...I have to wait 14 minutes just to download CURSE YOU 3DDOWNLOADS!!!! CURSE YOU!!!
Ok....im done

 

[Heretic_Cata]

Looks like it will be a great mod and I sincerely thank you for realizing that not all people have awesome internet connections because mine stinks. You rock . I'm gonna tell you what I think once it gets done...I have to wait 14 minutes just to download CURSE YOU 3DDOWNLOADS!!!! CURSE YOU!!!
Ok....im done

Thanx Can't wait for your feedback.
3DDownloads are quite busy toward the evenings of the American timezone ...

 

[Mirc]

Yes, having as much space as 3DDownloads has has some disadvantages, like you have to wait in that queue...

 

[Heretic_Cata]

I'm not sure if i should ask this in the history forums again, but i'll say it out here, maybe smthing comes up.

I need another "wonder" for Protestantism.
And another one for Christian Orthodoxism.

Any ideas would be nice.
Also, note that (as seen in the game) they don't have to necesarely be buildings.

 

[Blue Monkey]

What Era wonders are you looking for?

 

[Mxzs]

@Mxzs: It was your idea so i'll ask away.

You wanted a wonder that builds Mass Transit Sys. everywhere. Done - so what should it be ?

I could only come up with the "Autobahn" if you, or anybody else has any better ideas fire away. The Autobahn doesn't seem quite right ... but if there aren't any other ideas ...

Sorry, I've been away from these forums for a while.

The problem with naming a small wonder with this property after something in the real world is that ... well, there really isn't anything in the real world like it. Most mass transit systems or pollution-reducers are the work of local governments, of evolving technology, or legislation. I think you're going to have to think outside the box for a name.

For instance, you might give it the name of some legislative act: The National Railways Act, for instance. The the shield investment would reflect the cost of building a unified mass transit system. If you want to name it after the system rather than the enabling legislation, you'd probably want to go with a more generic name than "Union Pacific" or "Transcontinental Railroad." "Consolidated Railways" (the longer form of the US's former "ConRail" government railroad might work.

Or you might concentrate on the fact that it reduces population pollution. Calling this small wonder the "Hydrogen Works" is an option: the small wonder would represent an investment in powerplants that produce hydrogen for fuel-cell-powered autos.

Either way, have you thought about adding a potential downside to this powerful wonder (like the way Leonardo's Workshop occasionally blows up)? If the small wonder represents government-mandated mass transit, then the wonder might cause unhappiness; people might not like being forced to give up their cars for the bus. If it's the Hydrogen Works or some equivalent, then perhaps you might (if the editor allows) require the building city to have uranium or coal in its radius: hydrogen (IIRC) has to be manufactured, and nuclear or coal energy would be the likely source for its making.

 

[Mxzs]

I'm not sure if i should ask this in the history forums again, but i'll say it out here, maybe smthing comes up.

I need another "wonder" for Protestantism.
And another one for Christian Orthodoxism.

Any ideas would be nice.
Also, note that (as seen in the game) they don't have to necesarely be buildings.

Since this is a separate question, I'll risk a double post. Just some ideas off the top of my head:

Protestantism
Medieval: Edict of Nantes. Increases productivity and/or happiness by extending toleration to religious minorities.

Medieval: JS Bach's Cathedral. Just use that wonder for the "Protestant" wonder and replace the existing JS Bach's Cathedral with something else.

Industrial: Church/State Separation. Works like Edict of Nantes, but takes place in the Industrial era.

Industrial: Northern Enlightenment. Technically, this should be "Scottish Enlightenment," but that's too nation-specific. But it stands for the same thing, the Protestant-based Enlightenment (as against the French Enlightenment of the philosophes) that gives some kind of knowledge advantage, new advances or increased research.

Modern: Evangelical Church. Produces happiness.

Christian Orthodoxism
Hmmm. Tough. You've already got the Hagia Sofia, right? You might look to the "Third Rome," Russia, for ideas.

Medieval: Cathedral of the Assumption. Moscow's answer to the Hagia Sofia. Produces happiness.

Medieval: Reconquista. Okay, the real-world Reconquista had Catholic Spain kicking out the Muslims. But if there's a good Greek or Slavic word for "reconquest," maybe you could use that for the Balkan people's doing the same to the Turks. Might produce military units.

Industrial: Kremlin. Marriage of state and church power. (I mean, my goodness but the real Kremlin contains a lot of churches and palaces.) Perhaps it reduces corruption.

Modern: Ethno-Nationalism. Historically, this was not limited to the (Orthodox) Balkan region of Europe, but that's where it was most explosive. This could probably fit in either the Industrial or Modern eras; in either one, probably best as a unit producer.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

What Era wonders are you looking for?

Ancient (if any) ,Medieval or Industrial ... not too modern.
For example, the statue of Christ the Redeemer is in the game and it was built in 1931. It requires 10 catholic missions IIRC which are cheap to build, so the wonder is built way before the "technological times" of 1931.

Sorry, I've been away from these forums for a while.

Glad to see you're back.

The problem with naming a small wonder with this property after something in the real world is that ... well, there really isn't anything in the real world like it. Most mass transit systems or pollution-reducers are the work of local governments, of evolving technology, or legislation. I think you're going to have to think outside the box for a name.

For instance, you might give it the name of some legislative act: The National Railways Act, for instance. The the shield investment would reflect the cost of building a unified mass transit system. If you want to name it after the system rather than the enabling legislation, you'd probably want to go with a more generic name than "Union Pacific" or "Transcontinental Railroad." "Consolidated Railways" (the longer form of the US's former "ConRail" government railroad might work.

Or you might concentrate on the fact that it reduces population pollution. Calling this small wonder the "Hydrogen Works" is an option: the small wonder would represent an investment in powerplants that produce hydrogen for fuel-cell-powered autos.

Either way, have you thought about adding a potential downside to this powerful wonder (like the way Leonardo's Workshop occasionally blows up)? If the small wonder represents government-mandated mass transit, then the wonder might cause unhappiness; people might not like being forced to give up their cars for the bus. If it's the Hydrogen Works or some equivalent, then perhaps you might (if the editor allows) require the building city to have uranium or coal in its radius: hydrogen (IIRC) has to be manufactured, and nuclear or coal energy would be the likely source for its making.

I think i'll stick with Magnetic Levitation Transport, even tho it "sounds" like a tech and doesn't exactly "apply" to all cities at once.
As for the downside of it, it will cost A LOT and i mean a LOT. Mainly because it's way to powerfull.
It will come quite late in the game tho. I'll probably make it require 10-15 Mass Transit Systems.

Protestantism
Medieval: Edict of Nantes. Increases productivity and/or happiness by extending toleration to religious minorities.

This sounds good even tho it seems a bit specific; i think i'll stick to this ... - noted and it will be researched soon.

Medieval: JS Bach's Cathedral. Just use that wonder for the "Protestant" wonder and replace the existing JS Bach's Cathedral with something else.

Too many happines wonders.

Industrial: Church/State Separation. Works like Edict of Nantes, but takes place in the Industrial era.

This could apply to other religions too ...

Industrial: Northern Enlightenment. Technically, this should be "Scottish Enlightenment," but that's too nation-specific. But it stands for the same thing, the Protestant-based Enlightenment (as against the French Enlightenment of the philosophes) that gives some kind of knowledge advantage, new advances or increased research.

To specific ...

Modern: Evangelical Church. Produces happiness.

Too modern and too happy.

Christian Orthodoxism
Hmmm. Tough. You've already got the Hagia Sofia, right? You might look to the "Third Rome," Russia, for ideas.

Yup, it's the civ-specific wonder of the byzantines.

Medieval: Cathedral of the Assumption. Moscow's answer to the Hagia Sofia. Produces happiness.

Too many happiness producing wonders for Orth.

Medieval: Reconquista. Okay, the real-world Reconquista had Catholic Spain kicking out the Muslims. But if there's a good Greek or Slavic word for "reconquest," maybe you could use that for the Balkan people's doing the same to the Turks. Might produce military units.

This seems intresting, but IIRC the ottomans were driven away at the fall of the Empire in 1918 (?). But i might still look into this ...
Also this gave me another idea, the evangelisation of Syberia to Alaska. IIRC the russian colonists and missionaries' civilizing of Syberia was similar to the American civilizing of the Wild West in terms of epic tales and stories. - i'll look into this also.

Industrial: Kremlin. Marriage of state and church power. (I mean, my goodness but the real Kremlin contains a lot of churches and palaces.) Perhaps it reduces corruption.

That's the civ-specific of Russia.

Modern: Ethno-Nationalism. Historically, this was not limited to the (Orthodox) Balkan region of Europe, but that's where it was most explosive. This could probably fit in either the Industrial or Modern eras; in either one, probably best as a unit producer.

Too general.


Thank you for the quick feedback.



The way i see it, from my notes, i still need another wonder for Ch. Orthodoxism. I'll probably be able to scope smthing from either russia's journey into the east or the balkan "reconquista". But i'll still need another.

And also i'd like something else for Buddhism.
So far we have:
Lamaism
Jainism
Pillars of Ashoka

and i was thinking of adding the Shambhala as a utopic society (i love nazi mysticism btw ), but acording to some, it predates even the Bon religion.
So, i'd like 1 or 2 ideas for another wonder please.

 

[Mxzs]

Jumping catfish, you are going to make the MagLev wonder hard to build!

On the Protestant/Orthodox wonders: I didn’t know what effects you were looking for, and happiness is the usual effect people give religious-themed wonders. And your objection to Church/State Separation also applies to the Edict of Nantes. (I wasn’t happy with either of these suggestions.) In fact, the Edict was issued in Catholic France. So maybe that’s not a good idea.

Off the top of my head, I recall that, except for happiness, most wonders/small wonders produce extra shields; more trade arrows; more govt income (like Wall Street); or free military units. They also reduce corruption, but you’ve tied that power to government forms (like the Forum), right?

So, how about:

Protestantism
Calvinism: increases shield production by boosting the work ethic. Side effect: increased unhappiness due to tensions between religious minorities. Alternately, it might increase trade arrows (and unhappiness) for the same reason. (Medieval)

Dissolution of the Monasteries: boosts government income (like Wall Street) by seizing church lands. Might also produce unhappiness(“Dissolution of the Monasteries,” though, is an awkward name. Maybe “State Church” instead?) (Medieval)

Artillery School of Gustavus Adolphus: auto-produces cannon with higher bombardment values. (Medieval)


Orthodoxism
The Golden Horn: increases trade arrows by acting as a central trade depot. (Ancient/Medieval)

The Patriarchate: boosts government income by making the church (and its income) a department of the state. (Ancient/Medieval)

The Arsenal: auto-produces ships of some kind. (Ancient/Medieval) [What kind of ships? That’s up to you. But how about adding (even if not as the Arsenal-produced unit) a fire ship, which would act like a slow, sea-going cruise missile? If the editor allows such a thing, that would be kind of neat: movement of 2, no attack or defense, destroyed after it’s used, costs only 25 or 30 shields.]

 

[Blue Monkey]

Protestant Wonder: Rosicrucian/Masonic Brotherhood = something related to rise of science, diplomacy, internationalism, etc.

Buddhist Wonder = University of Nalanda - one of the formost centers of learning in it's day, and a major center of medical research, including reconstructive plastic surgery, 5th -12th cent CE.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

Off the top of my head, I recall that, except for happiness, most wonders/small wonders produce extra shields; more trade arrows; more govt income (like Wall Street); or free military units. They also reduce corruption, but you’ve tied that power to government forms (like the Forum), right?

Yes, but i can put corruption reducing wonders to some religions too.
The Sunnite Alhambra palace/fortress will be one of them.
The Catholic Vatican is one too.
(and so might the Patriarchy ... see below)

Protestantism
Calvinism: increases shield production by boosting the work ethic. Side effect: increased unhappiness due to tensions between religious minorities. Alternately, it might increase trade arrows (and unhappiness) for the same reason. (Medieval)

I couldn't find anything related to work ethics in the wiki article (but it's quite usual for religion-related articles to be incomplete). So i'll start reading about it in Mircea Eliade's book.

Dissolution of the Monasteries: boosts government income (like Wall Street) by seizing church lands. Might also produce unhappiness(“Dissolution of the Monasteries,” though, is an awkward name. Maybe “State Church” instead?) (Medieval)

"Dissolution of Monasteries" would be against the improvement "Monastery". "State church" applies to others too.
I see where you're going with this. It's a good idea, but i feel as tho it wouldn't quite fit in the game.

Artillery School of Gustavus Adolphus: auto-produces cannon with higher bombardment values. (Medieval)

Hey, that's a pretty good idea. I still need to read about Calvinism tho, because it's much "closer" to Protestantism.

Orthodoxism
The Golden Horn: increases trade arrows by acting as a central trade depot. (Ancient/Medieval)

Hey, that's a great idea; additionally it could also autoproduce some naval units kuz it was the headquarters of the byzantine navy. I might add this...

The Patriarchate: boosts government income by making the church (and its income) a department of the state. (Ancient/Medieval)

Like i said a few rows up, i thought of adding this too. (as a small wonder, because all countries have a Patriarch) But, like the State Church thingy, it doesn't seem right. Also, it could reffer to the catholic Pentarchy.

The Arsenal: auto-produces ships of some kind. (Ancient/Medieval) [What kind of ships? That’s up to you. But how about adding (even if not as the Arsenal-produced unit) a fire ship, which would act like a slow, sea-going cruise missile? If the editor allows such a thing, that would be kind of neat: movement of 2, no attack or defense, destroyed after it’s used, costs only 25 or 30 shields.]

This seems similar to the Golden Horn (in a way). I might make the golden horn auto-produce those demolition ships (as they were called in AoE 2 ). I never thought of a sea cruise "missile", it's a great idea. I'll have to test that too.


You're giving me ideas faster than i can research them.
I'm not rushing for this expansion.

Protestant Wonder: Rosicrucian/Masonic Brotherhood = something related to rise of science, diplomacy, internationalism, etc.

I am adding the Rosacrucian Order already. But not for Protestantism; it will auto-produce Occultists, among other things (research and stuff).

Buddhist Wonder = University of Nalanda - one of the formost centers of learning in it's day, and a major center of medical research, including reconstructive plastic surgery, 5th -12th cent CE.

That's perfect for the spot.

 

[Mxzs]

EDIT: If you want corruption-reducers, how about:

Protestantism: Religious Society of Friends (aka the Quakers). Their promotion of honesty and fair-dealing might be taken as a corruption-reducer. You might want to complicate this wonder, though, by introducing a new improvement (a church of some kind) and require a number of these be built before the RSF could be built.

Orthodoxism: Iconoclasm: This is a real stretch, but maybe it "reduces corruption" by preventing wealth from being locked up in expensive and unproductive religious icons.

I couldn't find anything related to work ethics in the wiki article (but it's quite usual for religion-related articles to be incomplete). So i'll start reading about it in Mircea Eliade's book.

It's usually called the "Protestant work ethic" and is often described as a consequence of Calvinism. The idea is very controversial, but you can read about it here and here.

On Gustavus Adolphus: I suggested this because GA was the Protestant king of Sweden who intervened in the Thirty Years War. (See here.) That gives it a quasi-religious dimension.

Hey, that's a great idea; additionally it could also autoproduce some naval units kuz it was the headquarters of the byzantine navy. I might add this...

That would make a pretty impressive wonder!

Glad to be of help.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

EDIT: If you want corruption-reducers, how about:

I don't necesarely need corruption reducers. I don't intend to make all religions similar.

Protestantism: Religious Society of Friends (aka the Quakers). Their promotion of honesty and fair-dealing might be taken as a corruption-reducer. You might want to complicate this wonder, though, by introducing a new improvement (a church of some kind) and require a number of these be built before the RSF could be built.

The Quakers are already in the mod.

Orthodoxism: Iconoclasm: This is a real stretch, but maybe it "reduces corruption" by preventing wealth from being locked up in expensive and unproductive religious icons.

But we are still iconodules.

It's usually called the "Protestant work ethic" and is often described as a consequence of Calvinism. The idea is very controversial, but you can read about it here and here.

Yup, i also just finished reading about it in my book. I'm adding Calvinism to ch.prot.
And that's that with Protestantism.

That would make a pretty impressive wonder!

Expensive and hard to maintain i might add ...

 

[Heretic_Cata]

With the help of Gelion i managed to find just what i was looking for:
Byline of Yermak


And that's that with the religious wonders. Now i see only 1 wonder on my paper who doesn't have a proper name yet:

Nomadic Homeland (?)

Any ideas what this thing should be named ?
It doesn't have to be the geographical name of a place like "Ulan-Bator" or "Alma-Ata". It doesn't even have to designate a certain "place".
If this was a world-map scenario i would call it "Septentrional steppes", but if there isn't anything i might call them that anyway.
"Nations of Gog and Magog" is also a good name.

 

[Blue Monkey]

If you're not using an Earth map, why would the nomads necessarily originate in the North? What effect would this wonder have (knowing that might help us come up with a suitable name)?