"Hi, my name is Ahmed and I want to be a suicide bomber"

[Sh3kel]

Seems like quite a few here despise Palestinian propaganda, but have no difficulty swallowing Israeli propaganda.

Who knows, they might even assert it is truth, not propaganda.

Not all propganda is based on lies, not all publications are half-truths and not every point the Israelis make is wrong.

That is just BS. If that was the case, radical Muslims would be blowing themselves in Costa Rica, Monaco and San Marino. They aren't. Guess why? because they have NO POLICAL PROBLEM with Costa Rica, Monaco or San Marino.

Yeah. It's a fairly good thing that in Denmark and France the muslim minority only settles for setting cars on fire every time something rubs them the wrong way instead of blowing up buses and subway stations like they did in England or derailing trains like they did in Spain, right?

Where is the political problem with those countries that justifies THAT?

Oh come on. We all know there's virtually no terrorists supporters on this forum. Quit the crap...
What we have seen, is that the Palestinian suicidebombers have increased. Meanwhile we have seen the Palestinian situation become more desperate. Close your eyes if you want to, but your "It's all the Muslims fault" mindset is not going to bring peace.
...

Here's a thought - why not, instead of blaming the horrible horrible west for being miserable, don't the Arab nations look into their own governments for corruption and gross misuse of national funds and wealth? Oh, right. I forgot. Those nations aren't democratic and they tend to execute people for daring to defy the will of their despot.

 

[Rambuchan]

That is BS again. Muslims engaged in terrorism with some of the countries they have political problems with either internally or externally, those countries being muslims countries very often. The fact that they are a significant minority, a small minority, a majority or completly inexistant does not plays a significant role.
There is sizable muslims minority in South Africa, actually in almsot every country in the southern part of Africa, in the Caraibeean (sp?), in Canada, in Sweden, in Switzerland, in Austria, etc none of those countries have been the victim of islamic terrorism. Guess why? Islamists don't have any political problem with those countries.

This is quite true.

What Winner is ignoring here in this particular individual's story is the first part of what the Bomber has said regarding his motivation...

WND: Why do you want to become a suicide bomber?

BOMBER: I originally decided to become a martyr after I saw what the Israeli army did in the refugee camp of Jenin in the big military campaign of April, 2002.

Instead our thread starter chooses to focus on the second part below, which fails to take note of the political context...

But this idea became stronger when I understood what status I will have in heaven if I scarify myself for Allah. Every time somebody else dies as a martyr in a suicide bomb attack, I pray for him but I feel jealous. I want to be where he is now and I pray that Allah will one day offer me this occasion and this honor.

As a side note, the interviewer is being somewhat aggressive with his technique and sounds like he has both an axe to grind and stereotype to delvier to his readership with his repetitious questioning on the issue of killing Jews vs. fighting Zionism and the religious nature of the Bomber's motivation.

His questions are mostly of a leading nature, trying to push the Bomber into giving a soundbyte to the effect of "all Jews should be killed" (he is quite ardent in trying to get this in the middle of the interview and the Bomber is nitwit enough to play ball).

WND leads the Bomber into religiously inspired spins on his motivation, such as with "WND: Is your main motivation for becoming a bomber is to serve Allah?" He asked that question directly before and got an answer that didn't involve Islam as his main / primary motivaton, but it seems WND has a readership to please and a notion of evil to deliver.

 

[Rambuchan]

Yeah. It's a fairly good thing that in Denmark and France the muslim minority only settles for setting cars on fire every time something rubs them the wrong way instead of blowing up buses and subway stations like they did in England or derailing trains like they did in Spain, right?

Another one who totally misunderstands what the Parisian riots were about, which seems to be convenient for your image of Muslims in Europe.

Hint: The riots were over poverty and alienation, not being Muslim.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Islam is hypocrisy. Muslims say their faith is peaceful, but they violently attack those who say it is not. Their holy book says "live in peace, tolerate the unbelievers" on one page, and on another it calls for all Muslims to slain them and make war on them. It says men should respect women, but then it command to beat them if they're not obedient. It denounces idolatry, but Muslims worship a black stone in Kaaba.
That religion isn't even logically coherent, so its violent parts can easily overshadow the more reasonable parts (which is happening right now).

OK. You also are a hyppocrite, you play the card of humanism, when you don't mind deporting people, nuking countries and are openly racist againt Gypsies

 

[thetrooper]

If what Ram said in post #42 is true - please, Winner, clean up your OPs in the future and post the whole story.

Edit: shame on me. Apologies to Winner. See below.

 

[Rambuchan]

If what Ram said in post #42 is true - please, Winner, clean up your OPs in the future and post the whole story.

He posted it all. I've simply found it in the OP that was posted. But I'm saying that his following discussion simply ignores the would-be bombers primary motivation, in favour of what the WNDs and Winners of this world would like to hear. ie. It's Islam alone and not Israeli and Western foreign policy that inspires suicide bombing.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Phobia - fear of something. Sometimes irrational, but in my case, the fear is based on facts. I think I know Islam sufficiently enough to be afraid of the ideology it spawns in its followers.
I am well aware that the term "islamophobic" is used mostly as a pejorative, but in this case, I don't mind it, because it in fact best describes my attitude.

All phobic people will tell you the same thing: "I hate X because I have very good reason to do so". Antisemite and anti-black said that.
And I am sure as hell you are racist against Gypsies for a very good and valid reasons

 

[Bast]

The point I am trying to make here is, that the motivation of suicide bomber isn't heroic, they're just twisted fanatical fools.

You know what I find scarier? There are people in the western world who finds suicide bomber courageous and heroic. Like they're some of sort of freedom fighters. I will never understand this. And you're right.

But you know I find these westerners to be scarier and a bigger problem because they're supposed to be on our side.

 

[Sh3kel]

Another one who totally misunderstands what the Parisian riots were about, which seems to be convenient for your image of Muslims in Europe.

Hint: The riots were over poverty and alienation, not being Muslim.

Actually if the Parisian riots were in fact over poverty and alienation, there's even more parallels between the Parisian riots and the Palestinian situation than you're willing to admit - after all, if what the Paris riots were all about is protesting against the active discrimination of a sovereign government against them for decades leading them to be poor and hopeless, where's the difference between that and the Palestinian claim of active discrimination against them by a different government which has led them to be poor and hopeless?

The Parisian riots had as much to do with ethnical differences as they did with internal affairs. There are plenty of immigrants from non-muslim countries in France who bust their ass off trying to make ends meet and proceed to become fully productive citizens of society in France and miraculously, despite suffering hardships along the way, they do this without setting public property on fire and venting their anger violently on random passers-by. This is also true in Germany, the US and in Israel. Stop trying to make yourself look right by removing the wrongdoings of the opposite side.

 

[Dann]

Re: this fool Ahmed

Useful idiot. That's all I have to say.

 

[Atlas14]

If Israelis are allowed to kill civilians with pitiless regularity without consiquences, Palestinian are allowed to kill civilians as well. The difference is that Israel does it regularly, while Palestinian resistence fighters only occasionally bomb Israeli civilians. While Palestinians bomb only limited areas, Israel imposes collective punishment on most of the Palestine.

Israel kills innocent Palestinian civilians, or those that are about to kill a bunch of Israelis? Ever hear of cause and effect? Israel is defending their land because the Palestinis keep sending suicide bombers.

Here it is in simple equation form:

(No Palestini suicide bombers) + (No Palestini attacks on civilians) = No need for Israel to fight back

Your argument is flawed greatly. The whole reason Israel is fighting back is to defend themselves against the wacko Palestini terrorists. If the terrorists would cease, the Israeli defenders would cease.

Also provide evidence that Israelis are targeting innocent civilians like the Palestini terrorists are.

 

[Rambuchan]

Actually if the Parisian riots were in fact over poverty and alienation, there's even more parallels between the Parisian riots and the Palestinian situation than you're willing to admit - after all, if what the Paris riots were all about is protesting against the active discrimination of a sovereign government against them for decades leading them to be poor and hopeless, where's the difference between that and the Palestinian claim of active discrimination against them by a different government which has led them to be poor and hopeless?

The Parisian riots had as much to do with ethnical differences as they did with internal affairs. There are plenty of immigrants from non-muslim countries in France who bust their ass off trying to make ends meet and proceed to become fully productive citizens of society in France and miraculously, despite suffering hardships along the way, they do this without setting public property on fire and venting their anger violently on random passers-by. This is also true in Germany, the US and in Israel. Stop trying to make yourself look right by removing the wrongdoings of the opposite side.

This is quite a different portrayal of the Parisian riots than your first post on the matter, which said this (and maybe I'm missing your humour or something here)...

Yeah. It's a fairly good thing that in Denmark and France the muslim minority only settles for setting cars on fire every time something rubs them the wrong way instead of blowing up buses and subway stations like they did in England or derailing trains like they did in Spain, right?

Where is the political problem with those countries that justifies THAT?

Anyway, I agree with your most recent rendering on the minority problems, both in France and Palestine, although the two do of course contain some significant differences.

Finally, to answer your question in this second quote box in this post: See Western foreign policy, which both the London and Madrid terrorist groups referred to as motivations for their attacks and which Palestinians refer to also.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Actually if the Parisian riots were in fact over poverty and alienation, there's even more parallels between the Parisian riots and the Palestinian situation than you're willing to admit - after all, if what the Paris riots were all about is protesting against the active discrimination of a sovereign government against them for decades leading them to be poor and hopeless, where's the difference between that and the Palestinian claim of active discrimination against them by a different government which has led them to be poor and hopeless?

Sure poverty is among the causes of the Palestinians Intifada, but not the only one...They would revolt less if they were "rich". Actually French and American Revoltutions, though have deeper causes, started because of poverty or over "money"

The Parisian riots had as much to do with ethnical differences as they did with internal affairs. There are plenty of immigrants from non-muslim countries in France who bust their ass off trying to make ends meet and proceed to become fully productive citizens of society in France and miraculously, despite suffering hardships along the way, they do this without setting public property on fire and venting their anger violently on random passers-by.

Yeah so?
There are plenty of immigrants from muslim countries in France who bust their ass off trying to make ends meet (like me ) and
There are some of immigrants from non-muslim countries in France who set public property on fire
Your point?

This is also true in Germany, the US and in Israel. Stop trying to make yourself look right by removing the wrongdoings of the opposite side.

He wasn't. He however did not make groundless generalization like you.
He will be doing so if he stated that Israeli are all rapists because your President is or Israeli are all murderers because Yigal Amir or Dr Goldsetin were murderes and Israelis

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Israel kills innocent Palestinian civilians, or those that are about to kill a bunch of Israelis? Ever hear of cause and effect? Israel is defending their land because the Palestinis keep sending suicide bombers.

Yup, with this kind of reasoning nothing will ever change.
Palestine keeps sending suicide bombers because Israel kills innocent Palestinians because they have to defend themselves from Palestinian bombers who bomb themselves becasue Israel kills .....

Copy/paste and say hello to mr. Viscious cycle.

All it boils down to is: "They started!".

And we call ourselves civilised

 

[Atlas14]

Yup, with this kind of reasoning nothing will ever change.
Palestine keeps sending suicide bombers because Israel kills innocent Palestinians because they have to defend themselves from Palestinian bombers who bomb themselves becasue Israel kills .....

Copy/paste and say hello to mr. Viscious cycle.

All it boils down to is: "They started!".

And we call ourselves civilised

Well if you knew anything about my views, they are anything but circular and similar to the poor reasoning you are describing. I support Palestine in the ultimate goal of its claim over Israel, however Palestini suicide bombers are not the answer to the problem. There are other ways.

If you are going to blatantly say Israel kills innocent Palestini civilians then:
1. Show me some proof
2. And if you do find proof, show me that the government of Israel sponsored the killing as opposed to a few mental Israelis gone wild

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well if you knew anything about my views, they are anything but circular and similar to the poor reasoning you are describing. I support Palestine in the ultimate goal of its claim over Israel, however Palestini suicide bombers are not the answer to the problem. There are other ways.

Indeed. But both sides are screwing up or have screwed up.

If you are going to blatantly say Israel kills innocent Palestini civilians then:
1. Show me some proof
2. And if you do find proof, show me that the government of Israel sponsored the killing as opposed to a few mental Israelis gone wild

Why would I bother? Or should I have called it collateral damage?

 

[skadistic]

Why would I bother? Or should I have called it collateral damage?

Because you made it sound as if Israel deliberatly targets civilians when then don't, unlike the pallies who explicitly target and kill as many as possible.

 

[aneeshm]

You hide behind your polar view of the world quite well. I always laugh a little when I read the word "evil" in other than fantasy books.

The word "evil" has meaning only to those who realise that in this world, it exists.

When the Beslan school shooters shot those children, they were smiling. That is evil. When a terrorist slits a journalist's throat and airs the footage of him doing so, that is evil. When an imperialist ideology masquerading as religion seeks to subjugate the world, that is evil.

And you laugh at it now, but if the world was made of only people like you, it is evil which will have the last laugh.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Because you made it sound as if Israel deliberatly targets civilians when then don't, unlike the pallies who explicitly target and kill as many as possible.

"because Israel kills innocent Palestinians because they have to defend themselves from Palestinian bombers". I stated their motivation right there

If the roles were reversed, the Palestinians with shiny tanks and planes with guided missiles and ****, and the Israelis without them, we'd be seeing exploding Israeli's. The quest for moral highground is the reason this violence will never cease to exists.

The Israeli's not retaliating against the missiles fired during the ceasefire was something I respect them greatly for. When they didn't bomb that building because of the human shield I cheered for them. These occasions make me hope for a solution.

I'm not laying the blame at the Israeli's. Laying the blame is just what's wrong with this picture.

 

[storealex]

Yeah. It's a fairly good thing that in Denmark and France the muslim minority only settles for setting cars on fire every time something rubs them the wrong way instead of blowing up buses and subway stations like they did in England or derailing trains like they did in Spain, right?

While I do agree that we have problems with Muslims/Arabs doing crime, they actually only burned cars here once, and it was very limited. Three cars or so.

Here's a thought - why not, instead of blaming the horrible horrible west for being miserable, don't the Arab nations look into their own governments for corruption and gross misuse of national funds and wealth? Oh, right. I forgot. Those nations aren't democratic and they tend to execute people for daring to defy the will of their despot.

True, but I don't see why the Palestinians should blame the Arab governments, for the landgrab and security wall. I don't see why the Palestinians should blame the Arab governmens, for cruise missiles in buildingblocks. I don't see why Palestinians should blame the Arab governments for the blockade, creating lack of food, clean water and gasoline in Gaza.
It's not all black and white. It's not all the Palestinians fault, and the reason there isn't peace, is because both sides are unable to look critically at themselves, but blame everything on the other side.