History Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread VIII

That's pretty hard to believe. They had the many soldiers not even being used to fight against the Nazis? Even in spite of the territory gains the Nazis were making and how much damage they were inflicting?
 
the Japanese were "enabled" by the massive and fast downfall of European Democracies . France knocked out , England kicked out . Vietnam fell to some signed papers , it wouldn't if France was still in the fight , backed by the Royal Navy and as a matter of fact , USA . Going South was a massive event of luck , with simultaneous operations against the British , the Dutch and Americans . Without Vietnam and Dunquerke before that , it wouldn't have been possible . Despite being far ahead of Italians , the Japanese were feeble industrially and they could not . Either against prepared Soviets or a prepared America . And Pearl Harbour in itself is a primary reason why the Japanese eventually lost . Round eyed Whites should have their parades and 10 battleships and 3 carriers and slowly and slovenly arrived off Philipinnes and roundly thrashed by the IJN , which could have happened , despite their battleship gunners were never as good as the Japanese claimed ... This way , some "Right Wing" coup could have happened in Washington and America occupied for a while , because they wouldn't want to fight their Nazi Brothers . 1944 : 2000 hp American fighters against 2000 hp Japanese fighters , but with the Japanese pilots still trained well . Maybe , just maybe the Japanese could then fight the Americans to a standstill , protected by the Nazi A-Bomb and Ju-290/390/490 delivery platforms ...
 
Japan had little in the way to fight any arctic or tundra war. Even fighting in Manchuria and Inner Mongolia was hell for them in the inter-war period. The Japanese wanted to fight on nice plains and nice seas, not jungles or wastes. The Japanese forces themselves were never anywhere near equipped to fight in Siberia, or transport anything across Siberia, or had any real desire to expand in that direction.
Don't they at least have a training ground in Hokkaido?
 
Yes, but it would have forced the Soviets to fight on two fronts. Japan did not have what it took to single-handedly beat the Soviet Union, but they didn't have to. My point is they'd be fighting the Nazis the same time. If the Soviets were spread thin like that, rather being able to put 100% of their effort just to the Nazis, taking them out would have much more likely.


But why would they? Japan gains none of its war aims by an all out commitment to a war against the USSR. There's just nothing in it for them. Defeating the USSR, in and of itself, has no significance to them. They were in a war for empire and resources. Things the far eastern part of the USSR did not offer them.


Seems to me like Japan was doomed to lose, unless mayyybe they didn't hit Pearl Harbor.

They couldn't realistically hope to beat the US once that happened. They were hopelessly outmatched in land wars with the USSR, worse so in winter or in the vast and empty stretches of the Russian Far East. And they were firmly stuck in China--too weak to win, too stubborn to leave.

Did Japan stand any chance of keeping America out of the war had they not hit Pearl Harbor and instead restricted the fight to the Philippines, or even had they not attacked America at all?


The Japanese thought so. The Japanese leadership, most of them at any rate, had a very low opinion of American war fighting ability, and political and military courage. They just expected the Americans to not have the intestinal fortitude for a major war fought to conclusions. They thought themselves so obviously the superior warriors that Americans just couldn't go head to head against them.

Now Admiral Yamamoto knew better. And I'm sure there were some others as well. But they were given their marching orders, and they marched.
 
But why would they? Japan gains none of its war aims by an all out commitment to a war against the USSR. There's just nothing in it for them. Defeating the USSR, in and of itself, has no significance to them. They were in a war for empire and resources. Things the far eastern part of the USSR did not offer them.

The significance is the long term gains. In the short term, you fight a costly war with not much strategical value. In the long term, it puts your other ally (other Axis powers) in a MUCH better position, so then Japan could then focus on expanding their colonial empire to the places they wanted in the first place (outside of attacking America). Supposing the Soviets really did get knocked out America entering the war would been inevitable, but by that point an allied victory might have been too late. The Japs would have been able to keep their newly acquired territory (the ones that matter to them, not just Soviet lands) and due to a stalemate with the allies, a peace treaty would have been inevitable. Which is not near as great (from their point of view)the the USA and Britain being properly defeated, but still MUCH better for them than the outcome that resulted.

The USA would have had a significantly harder time taking on the Axis-controlled Europe if the Axis powers weren't fighting on two fronts (meaning the Soviet Union knocked out). Then if America retaliated by only going after Japan but not the Axis in Europe (which is highly unlikely, to begin with), Hitler would have his hands free to invade the UK and by that point there's no way in hell America would be able to afford to focus on Japan.

Japan would have been able to have their colonial territories to themselves, unmolested by the Americans as the Americans would have already had their hands tied WAYYYY to much in Europe to possibly give them the time of day.

My point is if they did it the way I'm describing then I'm willing to bet the result would have been what I am saying.
 
The significance is the long term gains. In the short term, you fight a costly war with not much strategical value. In the long term, it puts your other ally (other Axis powers) in a MUCH better position, so then Japan could then focus on expanding their colonial empire to the places they wanted in the first place (outside of attacking America). Supposing the Soviets really did get knocked out America entering the war would been inevitable, but by that point an allied victory might have been too late. The Japs would have been able to keep their newly acquired territory (the ones that matter to them, not just Soviet lands) and due to a stalemate with the allies, a peace treaty would have been inevitable. Which is not near as great (from their point of view)the the USA and Britain being properly defeated, but still MUCH better for them than the outcome that resulted.

The USA would have had a significantly harder time taking on the Axis-controlled Europe if the Axis powers weren't fighting on two fronts (meaning the Soviet Union knocked out). Then if America retaliated by only going after Japan but not the Axis in Europe (which is highly unlikely, to begin with), Hitler would have his hands free to invade the UK and by that point there's no way in hell America would be able to afford to focus on Japan.

Japan would have been able to have their colonial territories to themselves, unmolested by the Americans as the Americans would have already had their hands tied WAYYYY to much in Europe to possibly give them the time of day.

My point is if they did it the way I'm describing then I'm willing to bet the result would have been what I am saying.



This entirely ignores the point that Japan had no way in hell of defeating the US in a Pacific War.
 
It doesn't. The point I'm making is they wouldn't have had to.

Yes if America put their efforts on Japan then they wouldn't have stood a chance, but the Americans would not have afforded that luxury to begin with. Even as it actually occurred, America had the "Europe first" attitude (especially for the purpose of keeping England safe from the Germans).

If Russia was knocked out (thus allowing all the Axis in Europe to focus invading Britain) the odds of it really happening would have grown exponentially. The United States would not appreciate what the Japs were doing, at that point, with their colonial expansion, but it wouldn't have mattered.

America would have had to make a choice between fighting the Japs and saving Britain (and hopefully, then, the rest of Europe) from the Nazis.

Japan vs the USA means Japan losses 99 times out of 100 but the matchup wouldn't have occurred in the first place for the reasons I'm explaining.

Knocking Russia out would have done them far more favors in the long run (including a war with America) then sucker punching America while leaving the Soviets in the war to wreak havoc for their allies, thus allowing the Americans to be able to afford to split more of their forces to the Japanese. Because of the resistance the Soviets were still fighting as a result of them still being in the war.

The point is, I'm thinking in the long term and looking at the big picture.
 
I've done some more research and it appears to me that the biggest mistake that cost the axis powers the war was Japan spreading herself too thin (even BEFORE Pearl Harbor). If Japan properly collaborated with Germany and they did a two-pronged attack on Russia (with Japan almost entirely focusing on Russia, ignoring China and all these other places) they'd have knocked Russia out before America even got involved. That would have made for a very different war.
Maybe. The Army, however, was not exactly a free agent.

The decision-making timeline is relevant for our purposes here. In April 1941, the Matsuoka mission visited Germany and the USSR on a mission to try to expand the Nazi-Soviet commercial pact to include Japan. When Matsuoka visited Berlin, the Nazis basically ignored his proposal and instead encouraged Japan to attack Singapore (!). The Soviets signed a neutrality pact with no commercial agreement. However, the pact was of very limited utility because of the Army's propensity to just fight regardless.

What the Matsuoka mission did help to do was create confusion. By June, there were several different groups arguing for different plans in the Army alone (to say nothing of the government). War Guidance wanted to invade southern Indochina. Operations failed to make up its mind but recommended flexibility. Military Affairs wanted some sort of vague attack on the British and/or Americans. Meanwhile, the Navy strongly disagreed with an attack on the USSR because it would conflict with the southern strategy, and Matsuoka (!!) demanded an invasion of the USSR. Finally, Anami Korechika wanted more troops in China to facilitate an attack on Changsha.

After the outbreak of the war, the general staff submitted an estimate that suggested war in Siberia was only feasible if the USSR withdrew half of its infantry (15 divisions) and two-thirds of its air force from the Far East. If the Kwantung Army were built up to General Staff recommendations (eventually 22 divisions, with 16 in the first wave), the General Staff believed it would have a two-to-one advantage due to the smaller size of Soviet divisions. The operation would also require full use of all Manchurian railways and the reassignment of something like a third of Japan's rolling stock: a massive logistical effort even for the famously logistically averse IJA. And if this massive set of preparations were to swing into motion before the end of 1941, then the Japanese would have to decide almost immediately: before the end of August, or the attack would have to be postponed.

The numbers are clear: the Red Army did not reduce its Far Eastern forces quickly enough to meet the IJA's timetable. Instead, mobilization continued, but at a slower pace, until the first echelon of 16 divisions was massed (early autumn). They were to remain in readiness for an invasion in the spring of 1942. Meanwhile, the General Staff's prized flexibility would ensure commitments against the Western powers and against the Chinese could also continue. Only after the American oil embargo, imposed largely because of the invasion of southern Indochina but also to forestall the Japanese mobilization of the Kwantung Army, did war against the West become virtually inevitable. The same embargo also vastly reduced the likelihood of a war with the USSR, because while the Army possessed the straight-leg infantry for a march to the Urals it lacked the fuel to run its mechanized, motorized, and air units for two years (to say nothing of the Navy's deficiency).

From the Army's point of view, war against the USSR was the primary mission. (And, as several people upthread have pointed out, it was ironically monstrously inadequate to fulfill that mission.) But the side conflicts that prevented the Army from massing its full strength against the Soviets weren't just distractions. They were in large part byproducts of the Army's own methods for achieving the goal of defeating the USSR. And many of them, like the oil embargo, were not really the sorts of things that they could ignore.

This is where Khalkhin Gol really mattered. Before 1938-39, the IJA was institutionally confident of victory over the Red Army. After Changkufeng and Nomonhan, that was no longer the case. The IJA's demand of two-to-one operational superiority in the Far East is astonishing when compared to the sorts of ratios it regularly massed against even, say, the Americans, to say nothing of the ratio of 1904-05. Had they not been defeated so soundly, perhaps the estimate would have changed to one that IGHQ could have supported. Whether that estimate would have been realistic is another matter. Despite literal decades of preparation, the IJA was woefully unprepared to fight in Siberia from a logistical and operational point of view and had little means of inflicting a decisive defeat on the Red Army. There was not much, if any, prospect of cooperation with Nazi Germany. I think that the general verdict is that Japanese involvement would not have helped Hitler that much and that the Japanese were primarily there to pick up the pieces of a defeated Soviet Union.
On a related noted, how central was Tojo to the Japanese regime? Western propaganda portrays him as the equivalent to Hitler and Mussolini, but it seems like the way Anglo-American propaganda had developed since the First World War assumed that the enemy was by definition some sort of despot, and that the propagandists were quire happy to appoint one if the enemy power had rudely neglected to do so.
He wasn't equivalent to Hitler and Mussolini. He was very visible, but was mostly brought in as prime minister to try to get everyone working in the same direction (which Konoe had failed to do and for which he was removed after the chaos of the Indochina debate). He failed in that goal, as well, although he was arguably better than any other Showa prime minister at getting the Army and Navy to kinda sorta not really cooperate.

Tojo was responsible for monstrous orders and war crimes but never came close to appropriating the sort of national demigod language or imagery as the other two Axis leaders did.
If Japan was to attack the U.S.S.R, in co-ordination with the Nazis, it would had been better to get them to go through Shanxi, get the Mongols and Uigurs on their side and whatever Cliques are on that side of the border, and attack to Kazakhstan and the Plains; not Siberia. The Japanese Air Force might had bombed the railroad out of commission, but the Soviets would had sabotaged it for thousands of miles anyway if the Japanese even thought of using it. Vladivostok and some pacific towns might had been occupied, but other than that I imagine the Imperial forces would had continued to move like the Tang did.
If anything, crossing the Gobi Desert, Altai Mountains, and Central Asia would have been even more of a logistical nightmare than a more northerly route. The Tang dynasty didn't have mechanized armies, and didn't try to sustain a million-man army in Central Asia. The Qing dynasty didn't have a million-man army either, but it still took the Qianlong Emperor and his predecessors literal decades to build up the logistical infrastructure to fight the Zunghar Wars. Fighting through the Tarim Basin wasn't a serious consideration for the IJA. Nor was it a serious consideration for the USSR when the time came for the Manchurian Strategic Offensive Operation in August 1945.

Neither option was incredibly feasible, but the slightly-less-ridiculous one for Japan was the one that attempted to use existing rail infrastructure.
Did Japan stand any chance of keeping America out of the war had they not hit Pearl Harbor and instead restricted the fight to the Philippines, or even had they not attacked America at all?
Yes. Operationally, Japan did not have to attack the Philippines to invade the South Seas and the IJN's institutional failure to notice this was a massive strategic error.

US Navy assets in Manila Bay were vanishingly small. Any one of the invasion convoys dispatched south could have made short work of them with its organic naval assets, to say nothing of the massive combat fleet waiting in the wings. The only other strike force available was the set of B-17s at Clark Field, which the Americans erroneously believed could interdict ships maneuvering at sea and create a vast "no-go" zone around Luzon that would prevent the Japanese from moving south. This was a comically exaggerated view of the effectiveness and accuracy of high-altitude level bombing and there's not even any evidence to indicate that the Japanese shared this view. Simply put, there was no reason to preemptively strike even the Philippines, let alone freaking Hawaii.

Attacking Britain was probably inevitable, because of the importance of Singapore, but fighting the Americans could wait (if it ever happened). Some American starred officers commented after the war that this might have been Japan's best option, and it's hard to disagree.
Please don't.
It doesn't. The point I'm making is they wouldn't have had to.

Yes if America put their efforts on Japan then they wouldn't have stood a chance, but the Americans would not have afforded that luxury to begin with. Even as it actually occurred, America had the "Europe first" attitude (especially for the purpose of keeping England safe from the Germans).

If Russia was knocked out (thus allowing all the Axis in Europe to focus invading Britain) the odds of it really happening would have grown exponentially. The United States would not appreciate what the Japs were doing, at that point, with their colonial expansion, but it wouldn't have mattered.

America would have had to make a choice between fighting the Japs and saving Britain (and hopefully, then, the rest of Europe) from the Nazis.

Japan vs the USA means Japan losses 99 times out of 100 but the matchup wouldn't have occurred in the first place for the reasons I'm explaining.

Knocking Russia out would have done them far more favors in the long run (including a war with America) then sucker punching America while leaving the Soviets in the war to wreak havoc for their allies, thus allowing the Americans to be able to afford to split more of their forces to the Japanese. Because of the resistance the Soviets were still fighting as a result of them still being in the war.

The point is, I'm thinking in the long term and looking at the big picture.
The sticking point for me is the oil embargo, which was fundamentally about Japan's China policy and its preparation to invade the USSR. (And the China policy itself constituted a leg of the preparations to invade the USSR.) There was no consensus for a southern invasion until after the oil embargo, with good reason. The oil embargo made it necessary.
 
I heard somewhere that the Japanese could have done far more damage the day of Pearl Harbor, but chose not to because they greatly overestimated how prepared the Americans were, while equally underestimating how many strategic targets they had left. And were it not for that, things would have been very different. Is this true?

One thing I've noticed is that the allies were very good at breaking the axis countries code (so they could spy on them and learn of their operations and plans) but the Axis were virtually ineffective at doing the same to the allies.

If this is true, why? Were the axis behind in technology to be able to do it? Is it because they underestimated how important it was?

I know the Battle of Midway, in particular, was a decisive turning point against Japan and that it wouldn't have been possible without the United States breaking their code to figure out their plans (without them realizing it).
 
I heard somewhere that the Japanese could have done far more damage the day of Pearl Harbor, but chose not to because they greatly overestimated how prepared the Americans were, while equally underestimating how many strategic targets they had left. And were it not for that, things would have been very different. Is this true?
The actual Pearl Harbor plan was a bizarre combination of audacity and timidity.

Japan massed all of its fleet carriers in a single high-risk strike against the main US naval base, which was audacious. Putting six carriers in a single formation was highly intelligent; it obeyed the principle of concentration of force, which actually had multiplicative effects. The carriers were also under orders to focus on destroying the American battle line and carrier fleet, both of which were excellent and valid targets by the naval thought of the day. However, the Japanese strike was also bizarrely timid. Having placed all the carriers in a single vulnerable spot, the plan was for them to launch two attacks over the course of the morning with an option for a third, and then leave. Yet after the first two strikes, it was or should have been clear that there was no possible force the Americans could muster to counter six fleet carriers. That timidity prevented the Japanese from destroying the American fleet carriers or from destroying the vast fuel bunkers on Oahu, either of which might have set the American advance back a year or more.
One thing I've noticed is that the allies were very good at breaking the axis countries code (so they could spy on them and learn of their operations and plans) but the Axis were virtually ineffective at doing the same to the allies.

If this is true, why? Were the axis behind in technology to be able to do it? Is it because they underestimated how important it was?

I know the Battle of Midway, in particular, was a decisive turning point against Japan and that it wouldn't have been possible without the United States breaking their code to figure out their plans (without them realizing it).
The Allies did have a technological advantage over the Axis in decryption. More importantly, however, they had well-developed institutional frameworks for generating and disseminating signals intelligence. The Germans, Japanese, and Italians were able, from time to time, to break some of the Allied codes. Determined people can sometimes make cryptological breakthroughs. The Allies had more determined people, more money to fund them, and better institutions for making sense of their information - so they had more consistent and sustained breakthroughs.

It would probably be going too far to say that the Allies valued signals intelligence more. They did, however, bureaucratize it better. German signals intelligence collection and analysis was generally quite poor, as was the state of German intelligence in general.

And yes, the Americans fought the Battle of Midway with a key advantage gained through cryptology: their fleet was positioned in a place that would allow it to surprise the Japanese attack force. That advantage, on its own, did not win the battle, although it did condition the rest of it. The Japanese also made serious mistakes in choosing Midway as a target, organizing the operation, and planning it - mistakes that were arguably far more serious. However, for the most part, the Americans did not gain the sorts of advantages from signals intelligence in the Pacific that they and the British gleaned in the European theater. ULTRA was valuable at every level for basically the entire war, with information only starting to dry up after the fall of 1944 when the Germans fell back behind their frontiers and reduced (but did not eliminate) their use of radios transmissions.
 
Was there any chance of the japanese conquering Hawaii, if they had tried an even more ambitious plan and added troop carriers?
 
Was there any chance of the japanese conquering Hawaii, if they had tried an even more ambitious plan and added troop carriers?


The question there becomes one of whether Japan had the logistical capability to do so. This means tankers, troop transports, and supply ships. The answer is probably yes, but, it would have been a stretch. Japan is a very long distance from Hawaii, and Hawaii wasn't really that strongly defended. But the amount of logistics needed to do it would have made it something of a shoe-string operation. And they would have had to put all of their actions in other places on hold while they did so. No dividing it up to attack Hawaii and the Philippians at the same time.

What would that have accomplished? Most likely it would have taken the US a couple of more years to win the war. Pearl Harbor played an immense role in American activity in the war. And the US was also a very great distance from Hawaii, so would face the same problem in taking it back.
 
Was there any chance of the japanese conquering Hawaii, if they had tried an even more ambitious plan and added troop carriers?
The question there becomes one of whether Japan had the logistical capability to do so. This means tankers, troop transports, and supply ships. The answer is probably yes, but, it would have been a stretch. Japan is a very long distance from Hawaii, and Hawaii wasn't really that strongly defended. But the amount of logistics needed to do it would have made it something of a shoe-string operation. And they would have had to put all of their actions in other places on hold while they did so. No dividing it up to attack Hawaii and the Philippians at the same time.

What would that have accomplished? Most likely it would have taken the US a couple of more years to win the war. Pearl Harbor played an immense role in American activity in the war. And the US was also a very great distance from Hawaii, so would face the same problem in taking it back.
Pretty much, yeah.

Logistically, it would have been an impossible ask.

The Oahu garrison wasn't small - about 40,000 - and the harbors on the southern end of the island were defended by heavy naval guns. The possible landing beaches were fortified, and reefs made amphibious landings with 1941 technology difficult. The island's relatively small size meant that the Americans had garrisons at the potential points of ingress, and that alone would have made any Japanese commander extremely nervous. Opposed amphibious assaults were thought to be anywhere from "impossible" to "so costly that they would never be worth it". The ghost of Gallipoli still scared people, and so the Japanese made a point of avoiding direct assaults on defended beaches in 1941-42. IJA doctrine was to land unopposed whenever and wherever possible, and turn the flanks of defended coastlines from the interior of the country, as at Singapore, Hong Kong, and Manila. When that was impossible, at Wake Island in December 1941, one Japanese assault was repelled and the island's tiny garrison had to be reduced by repeated bombing raids and overwhelming numbers.

If a direct assault wasn't in the cards, the Japanese would have had to occupy some of the outlying islands - say, Molokai and Kauai - to use as airbases to mount the same kind of siege that they did at Wake. And that would have been extremely dangerous. Their logistical tail would have been vulnerable and required a huge amount of available sealift. Hawaii was not even self-sufficient in food in the 1940s, to say nothing of fuel and ammunition. Finally, the opportunity cost would have been tremendous. The goal of the war was the conquest of the Malay archipelago. Diverting multiple divisions, large amounts of aircraft, and the fleet's aircraft carriers to Hawaii indefinitely would have prevented the Japanese from completing their conquests in East and Southeast Asia, which would have been a bit like having the tail wag the dog.
 
How strategically important would Hawaii have been, though?

And considering a large percentage of Hawaii being Japanese at the time. Could we safely assume they wouldn’t give the Japanese a warm welcome?
 
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How strategically important would Hawaii have been, though?


For keeping the US out of the central pacific, critical. The US had no comparable bases within 1000s of miles. Really, all the way to California. Further, many of the ships not lost at Pearl Harbor were disabled, and would not have been able to escape. So taking Oahu would have inflicted the critical damage to the US Navy that attacking Pearl Harbor didn't really accomplish. Pearl was a huge part of the war effort for the US Navy. Fuel, supply, repairs, the works. Doing all of that an additional 3000 miles away would have badly hampered what was left of the USN.


And despite a large percentage of Hawaii being Japanese at the time. Could we safely assume they wouldn’t give the Japanese a warm welcome?


Despite what people feared, Japanese living in the US and American territories weren't loyal to Japan.
 
I know one of the reasons Japan went to war with the United States when it did was due to FDRs economic warfare, but looking back (hindsight is 20/20), was there a reason they had to attack the US and instead limited their attacks to the British and Dutch holdings in South East Asia, taking on the US in the Philippines once the British and Dutch were taken care of? Even with the bulk of Japanese forces tied down in China and fighting the US, it still took the British until late in the war to mount serious operations against Japan. The Philippines could be attacked later when the Japanese were able to better concentrate their forces.

Or, was the Japanese government sufficiently aware that they were never going to be able to match a peacetime America undergoing rearmament, let alone an America at war, and they tried to take all their immediate objectives to hopefully knock their opponents off their feet?
 
I know one of the reasons Japan went to war with the United States when it did was due to FDRs economic warfare, but looking back (hindsight is 20/20), was there a reason they had to attack the US and instead limited their attacks to the British and Dutch holdings in South East Asia, taking on the US in the Philippines once the British and Dutch were taken care of? Even with the bulk of Japanese forces tied down in China and fighting the US, it still took the British until late in the war to mount serious operations against Japan. The Philippines could be attacked later when the Japanese were able to better concentrate their forces.

Or, was the Japanese government sufficiently aware that they were never going to be able to match a peacetime America undergoing rearmament, let alone an America at war, and they tried to take all their immediate objectives to hopefully knock their opponents off their feet?
The IJN spent decades training for and rehearsing naval strategy to fight America. Everybody believed that the war would begin with a Japanese attack on the Philippines, whereupon the US Navy would charge west from Pearl Harbor to rescue the islands. On its way, the IJN would lie in wait and annihilate the Americans in a multiday running battle along the lines of the Tsushima victory over the Russians. This was the core assumption of almost literally every Japanese naval exercise or war game. This assumption dominated Japanese planning to the degree that the few officers who briefly suggested that it might be possible to avoid fighting the Americans were ignored.

I don't think it'll ever be clear whether they were right or wrong.

If Japan could not avoid war with America, then attacking Pearl Harbor was the least-worst option. Striking the Pacific Fleet, destroying its carriers and battle line, wiping out its fuel storage, and wrecking its machine shops would have been the correct choice. Japan would then have had command of the Pacific Ocean and could go about assembling its defensive perimeter to wear down the Americans at will. However, if the Americans would not fight for Borneo, then ignoring the Philippines (to say nothing of Pearl Harbor) would have been much better, avoiding the massive American naval buildup and virtually-inevitable victory.
 
downside of issues of USB problems , so that ı won't be able to read it at home , so no wall of text . "But" Germany was supposed to fight Russia , kill Russia for the benefit of Capitalists and share the loot . When France was "accidentally" kicked out of the war , it broke the deal . Encouraged Hitler to think he was Grofaz , the biggest soldier/commander of all times ? Yes . It also woke up the Americans , about 3 years early , when compared to "original timeline" . Germany found itself in a world war ; disregarded the Japanese to no little end and the Japanese were also utterly wary of the Soviets . Germans and Italians tried to fly long range planes to Japan , for "closer" coordination and every single one of them was an adventure , while the Japanese diplomats could simply take the train across Siberia .

pearl Harbour should be counted as one of the biggest blunders of all time . It gave legitimacy to D.C. in a way no one could challenge , despite the campaign that started almost in 1942 , now that Tora Tora was on just last night on some DVD channel , made Americans cagey and the meat grinder took place months later in Gudalcanal , at the end of the Japanese tether , instead of using all the bases in Central Pacific , or Rabaul , depending on the American direction . And the Japanese could not avoid fighting America with only taking the Dutch possessions . Britain would love to get those after "liberating" them and we all know Americans are so "loyal" to London .
 
Logistically, it would have been an impossible ask.

The Oahu garrison wasn't small - about 40,000 - and the harbors on the southern end of the island were defended by heavy naval guns. The possible landing beaches were fortified, and reefs made amphibious landings with 1941 technology difficult. The island's relatively small size meant that the Americans had garrisons at the potential points of ingress, and that alone would have made any Japanese commander extremely nervous.

Thanks, I dond't knew Ohau was so well protected. The quick falls of the Philippines and of Singapore had given me an impression that the Allies were feeble everywhere in SE Asia during those initial months.
 
Thanks, I dond't knew Ohau was so well protected. The quick falls of the Philippines and of Singapore had given me an impression that the Allies were feeble everywhere in SE Asia during those initial months.
Both Singapore and Luzon were also well-protected, but they were much more vulnerable in important ways than Oahu. They were, of course, closer to Japanese bases, which reduced the logistical requirements for capturing them. But more importantly, the Japanese could attack both of them without risking an opposed amphibious landing. They attacked Singapore from the landward side across the muddy Johore Strait and landed at Lingayen Gulf with almost no organized opposition.

Numerically, the Oahu garrison was smaller than the Singapore garrison, but Oahu was a much harder target to crack.
 
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