History Quiz III (with rules)

[Porphyrogenitos]

Scholarship does not favour the 'b' over the 'v' as the dominant pronounciation key. Yet another example: I was priviliged to attend a performance of the Bachae in ancient Greek done by a fellow eductaor in an American campus and he insisted on the 'v' usage for Vakhos (Bacchus/Bakhos/Dionysus etc).

As far as pronounciation goes however it cannot be assertained exactly what was the correct form. Most lexicographers utilize modern day patterns and this is generally considered the 'correct form'. Notice I didn't say absolutely true form.

In any event the word 'labe' is pronounced as 'lave' so there is no need to disagree with me based on contentious linguistic points. Most people (all the ones I know) use the 'v' form and it is the most widely accepted form for this particular word. I would like to see you prove me otherwise with regard to this word.

 

[Porphyrogenitos]

What happened to the questions?

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by Porphyrogenitos
Had a student by that name who asked me a while back about this sort of thing.

And scholarship doesnot favour the 'b' over the 'v' as the dominant pronounciation key. Yet another example: I was priveliged to attend a performance of the Bachae in ancient Greek done by a fellow eductaor in an American campus and he insisted on the 'v' usage for Vakhos (Bacchus/Bakhos/Dionysus etc).

Also the Roman use of 'b' rather than 'v' is a common attribute of Latin. The word for Italy used by the Greeks was Vitelium/Vitelia from which the word Italia/Italy emerges. The Romans dropped the unpronouncable 'v' and used Italia instead. The 'b' in the word alphabetum could not be dropped because then it would be A (alpha) and I (eta/ita) in Greek (as opposed to A and B) which wouldn't do, hence the use of the 'b'. For more on this you can look at the work done by Dr Stone (who I believe is teaching in Australia now though don't quote me on this).

As far as pronounciation goes however it cannot be assertained exactly what was the correct form. Most lexicographers utilize modern day patterns and this is generally considered the 'correct form'. Notice I didn't say absolutely true form.

In any event the word 'labe' is pronounced as 'lave' so there is no need to disagree with me based on contentious linguistic points. Most people (all the ones I know) use the 'v' form and it is the most widely accepted form for this particular word. I would like to see you prove me otherwise with regard to this word.

There is nothing more that I can do. I have given you many arguments against the ancient "v" pronunciation, and you haven't dealt with them. The ancient Greek word lambanw was pronounced LAHM-BAH-NOH. All the ancient evidence points to that, all reference books I have access to agree on that, all my university lecturers stated that, all authoritative texts say that. There is simply no evidence for a pre-Roman "V" pronuciation for Beta.

Unless you have anything new to say, we might as well end it there.

BTW, where do/did you teach?

 

[polymath]

OK, I'll ask a question:
In ancient greek, how was the letter 'b' pronounced.
Only joking

A proper question to get the ball rolling again, and since we are lucky enough to have been treated to a discussion of pronunciation:

What language helped Jean Francois Champollion to discover the pronunciation of the hieroglyphs on the Rosetta Stone?

 

[Ukas]

The answer I was looking for is:

Sten submachinegun was British standard issue weapon to all "native" underground operatives in Europe during the WWII.

But since it was that because of all the reasons Porphy listed with extra background info, I'll give him a point

 

[jack merchant]

Originally posted by polymath


What language helped Jean Francois Champollion to discover the pronunciation of the hieroglyphs on the Rosetta Stone?

Linear B, IIRC

 

[jack merchant]

double post

 

[polymath]

Nope, Linear B is Greek...the Rosetta Stone is Egyptian.

 

[jack merchant]

Well, there were inscriptions in 3 languages on the Rosetta stone, which is what enabled Champollion to eventually translate it in the first place (all of this IIRC).
But I may have misread the question - you mean 'pronunciation' as opposed to 'translation' ?

 

[polymath]

Absolutely, the language which enabled him to determine the pronunciation is what I'm after....

 

[Renata]

Wasn't the third language Demotic? (not sure of spelling) - a phonetic representation of Egyptian, IIRC.

(By the way, if I'm right, someone else ask the next question - I won't be aruond.)

Renata

 

[polymath]

nope....since I don't think I'll be around to post on the weekend, someone else can ask.
BTW, the answer I wanted was Coptic.

 

[puglover]

Originally posted by polymath
What language helped Jean Francois Champollion to discover the pronunciation of the hieroglyphs on the Rosetta Stone?

Greek

 

[jack merchant]

It was Coptic, as Polymath posted above

 

[Finmaster]

Can I ask? Oh well, I'll ask anyway

in 1965, the gateway arch was build in St.Louis, Missouri, USA. Now we all know who was the designer of the monument (who died in brain tumor a few years before the building was set up) so I won't ask you that.

Instead I will ask you, who was the father of the designer - who was also quite a famous architecht, at least in Finland?

 

[Finmaster]

Nobody knows this? C'mon, it's not harder than those questions about ancient leaders who I've never even heard of

 

[Kennelly]

I do NOT know who designed the Arch,the only Finnish architect I know was Aalvar Aalto.Was he probably either the father or son in this family?

 

[Finmaster]

Nope, the good ole' Alvar, even though he is perhaps the most famous Nordic architecht, never designed anything in the USA. And neither did anyone in his family, for what I know...

If nobody knows this, I'll give the answer tomorrow. I've known this for years and I'm not very old so I kinda figured this would be easy question in this thread, but I quess not...

 

[Finmaster]

Fine, fine, I'll tell you. Eero Saarinen was the man who designed the Gateway Arch, and his father, Eliel Saarinen, is one of the most legendary architechts in history of all Nordic nations. Eero Saarinen was, however, an American, while his father Eliel was a Finn.

 

[naervod]

Will you ask a new question now?