History Rewritten (Original Thread)

[Xyth]

I'm playing with the Incans at Nobleman difficulty at normal speed and I'm now in the classical era.
Especially in the middle to late antique era I had this problem.

Thanks, I'll look into it. 0.9.2 is all about completing the techtree structure and cost, but for the next version I'll be focused on providing many more things to build.

Incidentally 0.9.2 is nearly done, I just need to assign all the AI flavours to the techs. Unfortunately this is a very slow and boring process, easily my least favourite part of working with technologies.

 

[Howard Mahler]

Version 9.0.1

 

[Xyth]

The techtree is finally finished (and has changed a fair bit from the last preview). 135 techs in total. As mentioned previously, 0.9.2 will probably feel like there is not enough to build at times and that some techs are noticeably less valuable than others. This will be addressed in 0.9.3 and constantly monitored in subsequent versions too.

I'm going to spend a few days trying to fix a couple of reported bugs that I haven't had time to address yet (techtree creation is insanely time consuming). Expect 0.9.2 this weekend.

 

[Xyth]

0.9.2 is now available. Let me know how you get on


Version 0.9.2

Civilizations

• Aztecs: Calemcac (UW) properly starts a Golden Age
• Korea: Hwacha (UU) is now a Bombard replacement
• Poland: Husarski (UU) now has the same tech requirements as the Cuirassier
• Some Monument-replacing UBs now obsolete with Education as intended (affected Egypt, Ethiopia, Hatti, Sioux)

Buildings

• Colossus now requires a Harbour instead of a Forge

Units

• Knight renamed Heavy Horseman
• Several changes to unit upgrade paths to better suit the new techtree

Technologies

• All eras of the techtree have been now been redesigned
• Added Medieval techs: Fealty, Free Artistry
• Added Renaissance techs: Civil Liberties, Firearms, Formation, Investment, Nationalism, Sanitation, Welfare
• Added Industrial techs: Entrenchment, Explosives, Feminism, Film, Metallurgy, Pharmaceuticals, Photography, Pneumatics, Rifling, Total War
• Added Modern techs: Automation, Aviation, Civil Rights, Electronics, Globalization, Jet Propulsion, Networks, Nuclear Power, Nuclear Weapons, Nutrition, Radar, Space Flight, Surveillance, Sustainability
• Added Future techs: Artificial Intelligence, Astrophysics, Bionics, Nanotechnology, Particle Physics
• Able to build wealth much earlier (with Property)
• Tech costs should now progress appropriately across all eras
• Many changes to AI tech preferences

Terrain

• Lumbermills generate +1 commerce once Printing is discovered

Miscellaneous

• (Hopefully) fixed out of sync error in multiplayer when religions are founded
• Fixed some undesirable Missionary behaviour
• A few fixes for Windows compatibility

 

[Simon_Jester]

Hi; long-time Civ player but I just joined.

I very much appreciate Xyth's work in creating such an excellent Mac-compatible mod, and would like to volunteer to write some of the new Civilopedia entries needed for the new mod now that the tech tree has been so comprehensively redone.

What still needs doing, and where could I send draft copies of entries for Xyth to review?

EDIT: I'd also like to chime in one on thing- I think the tech tree needs more cross-links. As it is, it breaks down into seven progression "lines" where all the dependencies are linked to the adjacent lines; this creates the problems people cite with being able to discover the stealth bomber without having discovered the refrigerator, or building SDI missile defenses without being able to build railroads.

I could probably come up with suggestions for this too, once I've had more time to review the tech tree. Again, where should I list my ideas, if they are of interest?

 

[Xyth]

Hi; long-time Civ player but I just joined.

Welcome!

I very much appreciate Xyth's work in creating such an excellent Mac-compatible mod, and would like to volunteer to write some of the new Civilopedia entries needed for the new mod now that the tech tree has been so comprehensively redone.

What still needs doing, and where could I send draft copies of entries for Xyth to review?

Help with the Civilopedia entries would be most welcome. There's an awful lot that need writing still, although I have some unfinished stuff lying around in my hard drive pretty much anything that says "Needs to be written." needs doing. The best place to start would be anywhere that interests you or you are knowledgable on; particular civs or leaders, era of technology, etc. Let me know.

The easiest way of sending me drafts would be via the private message service on these forums.

I'd also like to chime in one on thing- I think the tech tree needs more cross-links. As it is, it breaks down into seven progression "lines" where all the dependencies are linked to the adjacent lines; this creates the problems people cite with being able to discover the stealth bomber without having discovered the refrigerator, or building SDI missile defenses without being able to build railroads.

I've avoided crosslinks so far, preferring the units/buildings/etc themselves to have multiple tech requirements where appropriate. The primary reason for this is that it's been considerably more practical to plan and balance the tree this way, especially when defining costs and AI preference. As this is the first version with the full tree it will no doubt need some tweaks and adjustments in these areas and others. Unless anything goes wrong I intend to add some crosslinks in 0.9.3.

The SDI is a definite problem. Projects don't allow multiple tech requirements like buildings do and I didn't realize this until recently. I'll be addressing this somehow in a future version. Refrigeration I would like to crosslink to Plastics and I think this would solve most of the issues with this particular tech. Let me know if you notice any other inconsistencies or opportunities for improvement in the tree.

I could probably come up with suggestions for this too, once I've had more time to review the tech tree. Again, where should I list my ideas, if they are of interest?

I'm always interested in player's ideas and this thread is the best place for them.

 

[Xyth]

Here's the crosslinks I already have on my list for 0.9.3:

• Philosophy ---> Aesthetics
• Navigation ---> Compass
• Machinery ---> Printing
• Hydraulics ---> Sanitation
• Nationalism ---> Military Science
• Refrigeration ---> Plastics
• Plastics ---> Explosives

Crosslinks will not show as arrows on the tech advisor screen but instead as an icon in the top right corner of the relevant tech.

 

[Howard Mahler]

It lists every single possible religion as having been founded in 1740 BC.
However, Hinduism is the only one that has any %, at 1%.

In 150 BC, I got a great prophet and no religion was founded.
(This could happen.)

So far neither I nor anybody I have met has a religion.
That's 6 out of 13 civilizations with no religions.

Seems like there may be an error.

 

[Xyth]

Seems I neglected to close a loop in the religion founding code which meant that the first AI civ to generate a Great Prophet would found all as yet unfounded religions. A fix is attached. It needs to be unzipped and the resulting CvEventManager.py file needs to replace the one located at:

/History Rewritten/Assets/Python/CvEventManager.py

Apologies.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Seems I neglected to close a loop in the religion founding code which meant that the first AI civ to generate a Great Prophet would found all as yet unfounded religions...

Ah, thank you kindly. I was going to mention that.

You may imagine my alarm when the Israelite city of Jericho became the seventeen-times-over-holiest city on the planet and started cranking out enough culture to eat my border regions alive...

Oh, another point on the founding of religions.

The way you've got 9.2 set up, it is trivially easy to found religions if you build cemeteries in your cities, because of the free priest turning out Great Prophets on a regular basis; rather more difficult to do the same without them since temples and so on are farther down the tech tree than Ceremonial Burial.

I'm still a long way from finishing a playthrough, obviously, but I wanted to mention that. The free priest creates a huge incentive to build Cemeteries, which is all to the good, but I'm not sure the AI realizes that... which greatly delayed the moment at which the Israelites founded every religion in the world.

EDIT: I may also have some suggestions about switching around the order of some of the techs in the tree. Not so much for rebalancing, though that's a factor, as because of the historical oddness of some of the naming and ordering. Steam Engine, for example, struck me as appearing ahistorically late compared to the other stuff that's in the same tier and costs the same amount of research.

 

[Howard Mahler]

Thanks.

It will be a while before I try the fix and let you know whether it works.

I am currently enjoying the game I am playing; it is a good change of pace to try a religion free game (at least so far I have not met the civilization who founded a relgion.)

Seems I neglected to close a loop in the religion founding code which meant that the first AI civ to generate a Great Prophet would found all as yet unfounded religions. A fix is attached. It needs to be unzipped and the resulting CvEventManager.py file needs to replace the one located at:

/History Rewritten/Assets/Python/CvEventManager.py

Apologies.

 

[Simon_Jester]

I know this isn't exactly topical, but I'm having trouble navigating the forum controls.

How do I send you a PM, Xyth?

 

[s.bernbaum]

I know this isn't exactly topical, but I'm having trouble navigating the forum controls.

How do I send you a PM, Xyth?

Just click on his name to the left of his last post. You will get a drop down menu, including options to send him email and PM.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Not working for me, or not yet anyway; maybe it's a function of post count?

Pursuant to which...

I found another bug looking through the Civilopedia. While the Observatory's prerequisite has been moved to Physics now that Astronomy is an ancient tech, the French Salon wasn't moved, thus making it available in ancient times. This would have interesting effects on French research, since they would now get that 25% science bonus way earlier than anyone else...

 

[Xyth]

The way you've got 9.2 set up, it is trivially easy to found religions if you build cemeteries in your cities, because of the free priest turning out Great Prophets on a regular basis; rather more difficult to do the same without them since temples and so on are farther down the tech tree than Ceremonial Burial.

I'm still a long way from finishing a playthrough, obviously, but I wanted to mention that. The free priest creates a huge incentive to build Cemeteries, which is all to the good, but I'm not sure the AI realizes that... which greatly delayed the moment at which the Israelites founded every religion in the world.

There's definitely room for improvement in this area. I'll see what I can do.

I may also have some suggestions about switching around the order of some of the techs in the tree. Not so much for rebalancing, though that's a factor, as because of the historical oddness of some of the naming and ordering. Steam Engine, for example, struck me as appearing ahistorically late compared to the other stuff that's in the same tier and costs the same amount of research.

Steam Power did end up a little later than I originally had it, but I needed to push it back a little so that the Age of Sail wasn't so compressed.

I haven't tried to make each 'tier' of the tree correspond directly to an actual period of history so there will be some ebb and flow either way. So while in actual history Flight was discovered prior to, say, Mass Media (in the same tier), in game terms (i.e alternate history) it means that a civ chose to aim for one before the other and could have done so the other way around if it suited their goals better. There's no logical dependance of one on the other as opposed to Flight and Radar, for example.

Always room for improvement though, so suggestion are most welcome. Just be aware that I deliberately don't want the route that actual history took to be the only way to define things. It's History Rewritten after all, not History Repeated

Not working for me, or not yet anyway; maybe it's a function of post count?

It might be post count related. Feel free to spam this thread a little to get your post count up.

I found another bug looking through the Civilopedia. While the Observatory's prerequisite has been moved to Physics now that Astronomy is an ancient tech, the French Salon wasn't moved, thus making it available in ancient times. This would have interesting effects on French research, since they would now get that 25% science bonus way earlier than anyone else...

Good spotting. I always seem to miss at least one such thing each release ><

 

[s.bernbaum]

Not working for me, or not yet anyway; maybe it's a function of post count?

Yep, that's the problem. Quoting from the Forum Rules:
"Newly registered members may not use signatures, e-mail forum members, post visitor messages, use the private messaging system or join or create social groups, until they have been members for 5 days AND have at least 5 posts."

You're almost there! Don't forget that you have to logout and then login before new posts are counted.

 

[Simon_Jester]

There's definitely room for improvement in this area. I'll see what I can do.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, mind- you want it to be easy for civs to found their own religions in the early game, and Cemeteries are a good way to accomplish that goal.

Steam Power did end up a little later than I originally had it, but I needed to push it back a little so that the Age of Sail wasn't so compressed.

What if you make Ironclads (like railroads) depend on a tech that comes immediately after Steam Power? Heck, you could make a case for using Railroad as the prerequisite tech for ironclads too, though that might make that one technology too important.

I haven't tried to make each 'tier' of the tree correspond directly to an actual period of history so there will be some ebb and flow either way. So while in actual history Flight was discovered prior to, say, Mass Media (in the same tier), in game terms (i.e alternate history) it means that a civ chose to aim for one before the other and could have done so the other way around if it suited their goals better. There's no logical dependance of one on the other as opposed to Flight and Radar, for example.

True. I'm on the lookout for any particularly striking anachronisms, is all.

And I think it's desirable to require people to maintain some kind of balance between 'military/industrial' and 'social' techs. The vanilla Civ IV tech tree suffers a bit from this: the main cultural techs in the game are "off to the side" to the point where there's less incentive to research them at all. And you don't want civilizations going for a cultural victory to be utterly defenseless.

Yep, that's the problem. Quoting from the Forum Rules:
"Newly registered members may not use signatures, e-mail forum members, post visitor messages, use the private messaging system or join or create social groups, until they have been members for 5 days AND have at least 5 posts."

You're almost there! Don't forget that you have to logout and then login before new posts are counted.

Heh. Well, guess I'll get back to you with some Civilopedia entries in a few days then, Xyth...

 

[Xyth]

Currently working on adding new buildings. So far there's a Well, Sewer, News Press, Cinema and Solar Plant. More to come. If you have any suggestions for a new building (not Wonder) to add, let me know. Whether it's possible would primarily depend on available art and whether there's a suitable niche for it.

 

[Howard Mahler]

Trading Post:
Requires the Wheel and Property.
Cost comparable to the Granary.
1 Free Merchant
+1 happiness with Mercantilism

Dock:
Requires Sailing
Cost about half of Granary
+1 food and +1 commerce from any special seafood being worked by this city.
Required for Harbor.

Move Walls to Masonry.
Give Walls 60% of their current cost and half of their current effect.
Towers:
Requires Construction
Requires Walls
80% of the current cost and half of the current effect of Walls.
Required to build Castle

Smithy:
Requires Copper Working
Cost comparable to the Granary.
+1 hammer
-1 health
an additional +1 hammer with Bronze Working
an additional +1 hammer with Iron Working
Required to build Forge.

Inn:
Requires Record Keeping
Cost comparable to the Granary.
+1 culture
+1 commerce
an additional +1 commerce with Riding
an additional +1 commerce with Politics
an additional +1 commerce with Railroad
an additional +1 commerce with Aviation

Fermentation:
New technology
Requires Agriculture
Leads to Medicine
Allows building of winery rather than Calendar
Tavern:
Requires Fermentation and Pottery
Cost comparable to the Granary.
+1 Happiness
-1 Health
an additional +1 happiness with Redistribution.

It might be better to combine some of the features of Inn and Tavern and have just one building.

Suggest you move Stonehenge to Astronomy.

While I do not like Smokehouse as is, perhaps you can improve it.
Smokehouse:
Requires Pastoralism.
Cost a little less than Granary.
+1 Health from cows, pigs, sheep, deer.
(would have to revise the Supermarket which has these same health bonues.)


Sanitation should increase health; I assume that is where Sewers will come in.
You will need to go through the whole thing and at some point rebalance health.

P.S. On pages 40 and 44 of this thread I gave some other ideas which I hope you will look at again to see if there is anything worthwhile.

Currently working on adding new buildings. So far there's a Well, Sewer, News Press, Cinema and Solar Plant. More to come. If you have any suggestions for a new building (not Wonder) to add, let me know. Whether it's possible would primarily depend on available art and whether there's a suitable niche for it.

 

[davidtylr]

It really bugs me how the only way to get a hit musical, Hit movie or a hit song is to build hollywood, Broadway or rock and roll. I think it is silly. especially with great artist. Is there a way to get that through high culture.

A building Ideas

shopping strip. it can increase culture and money and the more luxury resources the stronger the improvement

Casino. Increase money and culture but maybe decrease health

City Hall. Increase culture. Increase production

Zoo or theme Park. Increase happiness. Increase culture.

Railway depot. Requires coal. Increase growth and production. Reduce health.

I think it would be good if there is an ability to open an embassy in other nations.