HOF Questions and Answers Thread

[Pangaea]

Not found any BFC horses yet, from 5-6 starts, and typically get boxed in at 1 or max 2 cities. Frustrating. Maybe Immortal is simply more my level. The way Deity AIs spam units, it will be tough to take one down even if I do get BFC horse, with only one city (or max two) to produce units.

 

[Seraiel]

Maybe Immortal is simply more my level.

Maybe you should simply go home and cry ^^ .

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Not found any BFC horses yet, from 5-6 starts, and typically get boxed in at 1 or max 2 cities. Frustrating. Maybe Immortal is simply more my level.

The jump from Immortal to Deity is huge, good luck!

 

[WastinTime]

Not found any BFC horses yet, from 5-6 starts, and typically get boxed in at 1 or max 2 cities. Frustrating. Maybe Immortal is simply more my level. The way Deity AIs spam units, it will be tough to take one down even if I do get BFC horse, with only one city (or max two) to produce units.

Are you committed to Ancient starts? If you go Classical, you get to see horses before you settle.

 

[Pangaea]

Maybe you should simply go home and cry ^^ .

I am home

The jump from Immortal to Deity is huge, good luck!

I know, it's massive, truly massive. I have one 'real' non-reloading win and another with ever so many failed attempts that finally resulted in a win, but other than that it's been bleak today and yesterday. Finally got a horse BFC start now, but when I'm finally getting close to ready to attack in 1500BC, the closest neighbour (Freddy) has 6 units including a spearman in the closest city. To which my initial thought was basically "Oh ffs".

The step from Immortal to Deity is probably something similar to Noble (or even below) to Immortal. The AI bonuses are off the chart.

Are you committed to Ancient starts? If you go Classical, you get to see horses before you settle.

Have only played Ancient so far, but it's a good idea. At least I'll know where the horses are without wasting X amount of turns on each start. Got some 200 saved maps from running MapFinder last night, though, so should at least try some of them I suppose. Deity is just so darn difficult, that is the problem. Of course, it doesn't help that I've packed the map with 14 AIs.

 

[Seraiel]

Once you're in the flow, playing until AH maybe takes 5 minutes, if at all, so you can test 12 starts / h. Getting a decent HoF entry sometimes is work.

 

[Pangaea]

Finally got a map with BFC horse, and manage to declare on Louis before he got metal units. Even so, it was such a drag, and it took forever before I took a city with impenetrable hill archers. Then just as I take it and he only has one city left, Saladin declares and I'm probably boned.

Deity is tough, no two ways about it. Don't get how you guys do it, and win so early.

 

[Seraiel]

Finally got a map with BFC horse, and manage to declare on Louis before he got metal units. Even so, it was such a drag, and it took forever before I took a city with impenetrable hill archers. Then just as I take it and he only has one city left, Saladin declares and I'm probably boned.

Deity is tough, no two ways about it. Don't get how you guys do it, and win so early.

I sometimes play 15 or more games before I get one, that deserves being played 'til the end.

 

[Pangaea]

Must have played some 20 maps today, and only two had BFC horses. In both I eventually got my arse handed to me, once by impenetrable hill archers, and just now by the RNG really, but I wouldn't have gotten through anyway, as archers were popping up everywhere. Two cities simply can't keep up with the Deity AI producing 13-14 archers.

Maybe I can try a 'normal' Deity map/settings instead and see if I can win that, because these settings clearly aren't working for me.

 

[WastinTime]

Must have played some 20 maps today, and only two had BFC horses. In both I eventually got my arse handed to me, once by impenetrable hill archers, and just now by the RNG really, but I wouldn't have gotten through anyway, as archers were popping up everywhere. Two cities simply can't keep up with the Deity AI producing 13-14 archers.

Maybe I can try a 'normal' Deity map/settings instead and see if I can win that, because these settings clearly aren't working for me.

Sounds like you need some tactics. For example, you can't slowly add reinforcements to the AI's BFC. He will just add archers. You need to stay 3 tiles away and get a stack large enough to take the city with the current # of defenders +1. If there are already more than 2 defenders, you can find another target and wait for him to build a settler. Once you see the settler move out with an escort, pounce!

Also, look for non-hills cities. If you have to do hills, you can sometimes catch a hills city with only 1 defender. The AI will do that.

 

[WastinTime]

Oh, Cease Fires are nice too. Even if they only last 1 turn

 

[Pangaea]

Thanks for that advice, my tactics was a bit off in the previous game. Gone a bit better now with use of short cease fires, but it's still been a pain. But have taken 3 cities off Frederick including his capital. Still, he has 3 left, and the one I can't see yet must have copper as suddenly another spearman popped up. So much tougher than Immortal though. Could perhaps have killed two AIs by now, yet here I'm only half-way through one, and it was a soft one.

War Chariots are so much better than Immortals, though. Against archers it's more or less equal, but other than that, WCs are superior. I'd also argue Egypt starts with the best techs. Only downside is a crappy UB.

 

[Pangaea]

Sorry guys, but I've given up on the HoF Deity attempt for now. Just kept getting stuck in quagmires, and it's boring to play a zillion maps to turn 30-40 only to see that you either will get your arse handed to you soon, or it will be a slow drag to Lib where you must cross your fingers for breaking out properly. Seems like you need a 'magic' combination of map, settings and nearby AI(s) without metal to truly stand a chance, and those don't crop up very often. Have gone back to Immortal and having a lot more fun, when feeling on top of the game again.

To be honest, Immortals aren't that much to write home about, because you'll quickly run into metal units and then they're just regular chariots with a cute name. Maybe I'd have more luck with HAs. Or elepults. But then I can't stuff the map with 12-14 AIs (Large), as more often than not I only got 1 city out of it, or at best 2.

 

[Seraiel]

Why don't you take over all the Immortal Conquest / Domination slots via the Peace-Vassal-Method?

 

[Noble Zarkon]

To be honest, Immortals aren't that much to write home about, because you'll quickly run into metal units and then they're just regular chariots with a cute name. Maybe I'd have more luck with HAs.

I much prefer Immortals to HAs - the defensive bonus means they can guard a city you've just conquered for instance.

 

[Pangaea]

Some of them have very good dates, but maybe I'll try some of the more beatable dates later. Right now I'm trying to improve one of my previous games, as I already have some maps laying about. Don't think I've tried any non-normal speed games either, but epic probably isn't wildly different, so I could try that later. Not many dates there look particularly easy to beat tbh, as I've so far been in the 12-1400 range.

Thinking about a space game too, as I have little experience with that, and it's hopefully more fun towards the end than culture. I suppose the normal procedure for space games is early warfare to grab more land, and then sit back and tech like crazy, plus build Oxford and Wall Street? Then the question of SP vs Corps, where I guess SP is a bit more straightforward, without all the hassle of getting the right GP (especially that pesky GE for Mining) and spam execs. Checked some games earlier, and saw they used Permanent Alliance. That's a big advantage?

 

[Pangaea]

I much prefer Immortals to HAs - the defensive bonus means they can guard a city you've just conquered for instance.

Ah, that's right, they get defensive bonus. That's decent then. But other than that they're basically just chariots unless you happen to catch an AI without metal so you get to attack archers. Spears and even Swords are pretty rough customers. HAs do a better job here, though they're obviously not as good against axes.

Anyway, I'm playing with Hatty again right now, so War Chariots it is, which is sort of a mix between chariots and HAs.

 

[Seraiel]

You judged Spaceraces quite right. I just wanted to say to you, that good Spaceraces are very difficult though, and require a lot of micro, as well as balancing warfare with research. Spaceraces can sometimes be really grindy, but mostly if one goes the Corps route, State Property should play out a lot easier because less things change.

A perfect Spacerace doesn't need PAs, as you'll sit 2% from the domination limit anyhow. On bigger maps and with weaker civs, this is not possible many times though, then a good PA can be of advantage, but mostly not, because the tech-costs also increase with having a PA. Ofc, if you're able to get Mansa or Asoka with Deity-bonuses...
PAs contradict vassals though, so you can have either vassals or a PA.

Most competetive Spaceraces are played out on Terra and use the option "No Vassal States" . Kill every AI but Mansa and maybe Darius or whoever needs to stay alive so that you don't cross the Domination threshold, and focus on tech as harsh as possible. Having another (well played) Spacerace from HoF as a guideline for techs and so is probably very helpful.

 

[elitetroops]

Thinking about a space game too, as I have little experience with that, and it's hopefully more fun towards the end than culture.

I'd recommend trying all types of games. Culture games are great exercises in city micro and specialist management, a Deity OCC diplo game is a great exercise in managing diplomatic relations and optimizing research, AP games can be great exercises in optimizing the early game and so on. Space games tie all of these together, while also adding in the war element from domination/conquest games, which makes them probably the hardest to master.

Oh, and check out the challenger series as well! Playing at lower difficulties with less familiar map types presents it's own set of challenges.

 

[Pangaea]

Playing at such low difficulties doesn't appeal to me all that much as the gameplay will be so different (warrior rushing and whatever), but maybe I'll take a peek at the new gauntlets.

Playing a new immortal game now and trying to peace vassal a few guys. Unfortunate with the start position so only two neighbours and despite being a Pangaea map it was basically yet another inland sea. But when getting out enough Cuirs Frederick finally PVed. Kublai refused though, despite having good relations, bordering him, and having more than 1.5x his power. Is there anything else than can impact it, like having a big military, despite less than 1.5x my power? He just kept saying "We're doing fine on our own", so after waiting too long I gave up and attacked him.

After taking 5 cities his stack finally showed up, which was a pretty impressive 27-unit force. Can something like that explain why he didn't want to peace vassal, despite the fact I had over 1.5x his power (demographics: I had 1.7x over the next best, which was probably Kublai).

At that point, when I saw his stack, I was so spread out from splitting the attacking stack to take many cities, so with great regret I had to withdraw to regroup and heal. That gave him lots of free war "success", but hopefully he caves soon when I take out the stack and re-capture some of those cities I tactically withdrew from.

All this stuff means the date won't be all that much to write home about, but have played too long to not finish it now.