Hotels and Privacy

[Commodore]

Before I get into the meat of what this thread is going to be about I just want the following to be known: This is not a discussion about gun control despite the inspiration for this thread being the mass shooting that took place in Las Vegas.

Okay, so I just saw the video that was released that showed the Vegas shooter "smuggling" the weapons he used into his hotel room. That got me thinking: Should hotels be given the legal authority to search guests, their luggage, and maybe even their vehicles for dangerous or illegal items before allowing them to check into their rooms? If hotels were allowed to do that, maybe the Vegas shooting would have been prevented since hotel staff would have seen he was carrying an unusual number of firearms and ammunition and could have had police show up and question him about it. Not only that, but hotels could also prevent their establishments from being used for other criminal activity as well.

Personally, I think it would be a reasonable idea to let hotels conduct searches of their guests and their property. My only question would be how far do we let them go with these searches? Do we allow hotels to confiscate items? Would the right to search guests only apply to traditional hotels or would we allow people who rent their homes on Airbnb to search their guests too? And do we allow hotels to create "prohibited item" lists that allow them to confiscate items that may not be illegal, but that the hotel itself doesn't want their guests to have in their rooms?

For example: A hotel has a minibar in their rooms that has alcohol that you have to pay for. Should we allow that hotel to then search for and confiscate any outside alcohol guests attempt to bring into their rooms?

 

[Zkribbler]

I think it would then be only fair if we could search the hotel offices for illegal drugs and to go through their books to look for signs of money laundering.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Taken to extremes, some hotels have boutiques on the premises, so they should be able to prohibit guests from bringing clothing with them.

I understand your point, @Commodore, but I don't agree with it. Far too many innocent people would have hassles and yes, it would be intrusive.

I'm thinking about some of the science fiction conventions I've been to, in which some costumers and SCA people are apt to carry "ray guns" (any sort of SF type of firearm), daggers, or swords. Mundane law already has regulations about weapons in public, and Con security had extremely strict rules regarding weapons. They had to remain sheathed at all times, and tied down so they couldn't be easily removed. If the person wanted to use them as a prop in the Costume Bacchanal, special permission was required (a policy enacted after one year when a woman drew a sword on stage - without warning - and almost sliced into the announcer). One of my roommates was warned - once - to keep her sword either sheathed and tied down or in her room, or it would be confiscated.

This was in the '80s and '90s. I would think the rules are probably even more strict now.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

"Allow" is a funny word. Just like purchasing an airline ticket is an agreement to the search and confiscation process that is run by the TSA, a rental agreement could be written to include whatever you want to include in it, as long as you could get customers to agree to the terms.

 

[Commodore]

"Allow" is a funny word. Just like purchasing an airline ticket is an agreement to the search and confiscation process that is run by the TSA, a rental agreement could be written to include whatever you want to include in it, as long as you could get customers to agree to the terms.

Yes, but there would be some question as to whether or not it would be legal for hotels to do it if it happened. TSA searches are legal because they were made legal by the Transportation Security Act of 2001. As of right now, I don't think there are any laws saying it would be legal for hotels (or any other private business for that matter) to conduct similar searches on their customers. Then again, I don't think there are any laws saying they can't either.

 

[Cutlass]

Yes, but there would be some question as to whether or not it would be legal for hotels to do it if it happened. TSA searches are legal because they were made legal by the Transportation Security Act of 2001. As of right now, I don't think there are any laws saying it would be legal for hotels (or any other private business for that matter) to conduct similar searches on their customers. Then again, I don't think there are any laws saying they can't either.

In the absence of a law that says they can't, they can. The question being at what point can they do it and still maximize profits?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yes, but there would be some question as to whether or not it would be legal for hotels to do it if it happened. TSA searches are legal because they were made legal by the Transportation Security Act of 2001. As of right now, I don't think there are any laws saying it would be legal for hotels (or any other private business for that matter) to conduct similar searches on their customers. Then again, I don't think there are any laws saying they can't either.

Concert venues and sports arenas do it all the time. The scope may be more limited, but it is legal enough. The ticket purchase is a contract, and terms of use apply.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Before I get into the meat of what this thread is going to be about I just want the following to be known: This is not a discussion about gun control despite the inspiration for this thread being the mass shooting that took place in Las Vegas.

Okay, so I just saw the video that was released that showed the Vegas shooter "smuggling" the weapons he used into his hotel room. That got me thinking: Should hotels be given the legal authority to search guests, their luggage, and maybe even their vehicles for dangerous or illegal items before allowing them to check into their rooms? If hotels were allowed to do that, maybe the Vegas shooting would have been prevented since hotel staff would have seen he was carrying an unusual number of firearms and ammunition and could have had police show up and question him about it. Not only that, but hotels could also prevent their establishments from being used for other criminal activity as well.

Personally, I think it would be a reasonable idea to let hotels conduct searches of their guests and their property. My only question would be how far do we let them go with these searches? Do we allow hotels to confiscate items? Would the right to search guests only apply to traditional hotels or would we allow people who rent their homes on Airbnb to search their guests too? And do we allow hotels to create "prohibited item" lists that allow them to confiscate items that may not be illegal, but that the hotel itself doesn't want their guests to have in their rooms?

For example: A hotel has a minibar in their rooms that has alcohol that you have to pay for. Should we allow that hotel to then search for and confiscate any outside alcohol guests attempt to bring into their rooms?

I think the whole hotel industry has a vested interest in protecting people's privacy. It's a big part of what they are selling. Any given hotel near any given airport or city in America is filled with people having affairs, doing shady business deal and committing crimes, be it prostitution, drugs etc... It's such a big chunk of their business that I don't know that any major hotel chain would be willing to give that up in the interest of "stopping terror" or whatever other national security'ish goal you can identify.

That being said... they're a private business so I don't see why they can't search everyone who comes in the door. You can always go across the street to the other hotel if you don't want to be searched... or stay with your cousins, or not go to that city... which brings us back to the above point... its unlikely that Vegas hotels are going to do things that discourage guests... be they compulsive gamblers, soccer moms, or hookers... from renting their rooms.

 

[dutchfire]

If a hotel suspects that shady business is going on in their rooms, they can notify the police who can then actually do something about it, instead of acting like a private police force.

 

[warpus]

Personally, I think it would be a reasonable idea to let hotels conduct searches of their guests and their property. My only question would be how far do we let them go with these searches?

It seems to me that one of the main benefits of hotels is the convenience. If a TSA level of security was required before checking into a hotel, I bet a lot more people would be tempted to look at alternate options.

 

[Berzerker]

I think it would then be only fair if we could search the hotel offices for illegal drugs and to go through their books to look for signs of money laundering.

I dont know who you mean by 'we' but we're on their property. If you mean the Feds, they need probable cause. A business doesn't need that much suspicion to investigate and deny entry to armed people. But the gun lobby will scream bloody hell if a hotel does that and if the trend continued politicians will pass a law requiring businesses to let armed people in. The only places they dont want armed people are in government buildings.

 

[Sommerswerd]

If a hotel suspects that shady business is going on in their rooms, they can notify the police who can then actually do something about it, instead of acting like a private police force.

I don't think its a matter of "suspecting"... Hotels are well aware that tons of illegal and/or illicit activity is going on in their rooms... but they have very little incentive to do anything to stop it unless it is disrupting business for them. When a guest is ruining their service to other guests, they don't hesitate to contact the police.

 

[rah]

Sommerswerd summed up my thoughts on this better than I probably would have so I'll just say "ditto"

 

[stinkubus]

I, for one, look forward to the day where you won't be able to enter any public spaces without first consenting to a strip search.

 

[rah]

Full employment would result. A lot of probing/groping hands would be required.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Until they hand the jobs over to robots...

 

[Hygro]

"Hey, is that Sommerswerd in a robot suit?"

 

[Sommerswerd]

Beep boop beep beep boop

 

[Commodore]

but they have very little incentive to do anything to stop it unless it is disrupting business for them.

Then let's give them that incentive. You believe gun manufacturers should be held liable for what people do with their products right? (Again, this thread isn't about gun control, just using this to make a point) Well then it shouldn't be a huge logical jump to say we should hold property owners liable for illegal activities that take place on their property, whether they are aware of it or not.

For example: if a drug deal takes place on hotel property and goes bad and I get shot in the crossfire, I should be allowed to sue the hotel for allowing that illegal activity to take place on their property. The hotel owner should also be open to being charged as an accessory or accomplice in any crime that takes place on their property, even if they have no knowledge of it.

That would provide plenty of incentive for them to start searching people for illegal items before allowing them to check in.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That would provide plenty of incentive for them to start searching people for illegal items before allowing them to check in.

Is the benefit derived worth the incentive program? I think not, myself.

By the way, there is zero desirability in 'searching for illegal items.' No one does that. The TSA doesn't even do that. They aren't rooting through your bag looking for stolen property. They aren't scanning your laptop for unlicensed intellectual property. They are conducting a search that is at least nominally within the terms of service agreed to when you purchased a ticket, a search that ticket purchasers by and large agree is done for the mutual safety of all involved. Same thing at a concert venue.

Should places designated by owners as "gun free" be allowed to conduct searches commensurate with ensuring that their 'terms of use' are being followed? Sure, why not? Nothing illegal about that. But that doesn't create your authoritarian utopia where every business becomes an agent of law enforcement.