How certain are you of an afterlife?

[Perfection]

i agree with you, and to make it even worse we can only precieve the world trough our senses but have no way of verifying those readings.

That doesn't mean that anything goes though, or that the assumption of a phenomenal reality at least partially independant of ourselves is useless.

 

[C~G]

Objective reality is something beyond all comperehension for us but we strive for it by comparing the subjective reality of ourselves to the subjective reality of others about things that have been either empirically proven or logically acclaimed creating our distinguished reality thus far.

EDIT: And with logic I mean the fuzzy one, since we're humans after all.

 

[puglover]

Every religion claims that its holy texts are "the word of God". Saying that I received an offer from the Christian God due to the mere existence of the Bible is like saying that I received an offer from every single God discussed in a religious text in existence.

I've found that the Christian Bible has evidence to support its claims that no other religious text has. That's what sets it apart.

I'm not going to go through every single religious text and attempt to appease every single God found within simply because religious adherents are going to tell me that their religious text is "the one". If God is truly offering something to me he should do more than just insert a couple quotes into one religious text out of thousands.

A truthseeker does not try to appease every immitation god man can create. He merely looks for the truth, and dedicates himself to act accordingly. My goal is to set myself to serving the Truth I found, namely Christ.

How would he expect me to find the "true" religious text out of the thousands, when all of the religious texts I come across claim to be "the truth" ?

But you have found the true religious text. The Bible is out there. I urge you to investigate it. He expects you to, because he counts on you to follow your own human desire to seek the reality of this world, and its true meaning.

 

[Sidhe]

I've found that the Christian Bible has evidence to support its claims that no other religious text has. That's what sets it apart.

Unfortunately your talking about faith not evidence, although I admire your faith, I don't see anything you have said as being self evident or having proof.

A truthseeker does not try to appease every immitation god man can create. He merely looks for the truth, and dedicates himself to act accordingly. My goal is to set myself to serving the Truth I found, namely Christ.

But you have found the true religious text. The Bible is out there. I urge you to investigate it. He expects you to, because he counts on you to follow your own human desire to seek the reality of this world, and its true meaning.

This I agree with, religion should be about finding a meaning, not accepting blindly and refusing to search within yourself. Thus my biggest worry with fundementalism is that an unquestioning belief is uncondusive to finding meaning in anything, to really find meaning you have to question and seek insight and fundementalism all too often doesn't. In any fundementalist faith you lose sight of context if you simply pick and chose your quotes to justify modern behaviour. In both the Koran and the Bible it is possible to rationalise any argument with text. Which is why I fail to see meaning in a single passage from any book without acknowledging the whole and in it's historical context.

By the way I don't have a problem with anything you said and I'm not trying to pin anything on you specifically with these comments it's more of a referral to the original post and fundementalism in general.

 

[Bluemofia]

I voted 0% because I am 100% sure that religion is a human construct designed to justify actions, explain nature, and/or to reinforce their beliefs. (Egyptian, Norse, and Greek Mythology are good examples.)

 

[puglover]

Unfortunately your talking about faith not evidence, although I admire your faith, I don't see anything you have said as being self evident or having proof.

Thanks, but I'm trying for something more than faith. What I've noted is that mankind has a sense of self-worth and morality that aren't composed of material we see in nature. The complexity of the world around us, and how it all seems to flow with purpose also says something about the nature of the supernatural. These truths and more point to the existence of something divine, and the prophecies that Christ fufilled four hundred years after their original writing tell me who exactly that divine entity really is. The Bible is more than faith to me, and while I appreciate your compliment, I'd like to clarify that I put my reason as well as my faith behind Scripture.

This I agree with, religion should be about finding a meaning, not accepting blindly and refusing to search within yourself. Thus my biggest worry with fundementalism is that an unquestioning belief is uncondusive to finding meaning in anything, to really find meaning you have to question and seek insight and fundementalism all too often doesn't. In any fundementalist faith you lose sight of context if you simply pick and chose your quotes to justify modern behaviour. In both the Koran and the Bible it is possible to rationalise any argument with text. Which is why I fail to see meaning in a single passage from any book without acknowledging the whole and in it's historical context.

That's sensible of you, and I hope to never be a fundamentalist by that definition.

I voted 0% because I am 100% sure that religion is a human construct designed to justify actions, explain nature, and/or to reinforce their beliefs. (Egyptian, Norse, and Greek Mythology are good examples.)

And what about religious beliefs that are very uncomfortable? Why do martyrs rot in prison for faith if it is only a human construct designed to make you feel good.

 

[Bluemofia]

And what about religious beliefs that are very uncomfortable? Why do martyrs rot in prison for faith if it is only a human construct designed to make you feel good.

Well, the world isn't perfect. Thus religious beliefs also won't be perfect. And from my point of view, martyrs simply are doing what they believe is right, and are paying for it. It might be a good thing (Joan of Arc rallying the French to victory.), and it might be a bad thing. (diablodelmar yelling at mods because he was flaming too much.)

 

[angeleyes]

.....And what about religious beliefs that are very uncomfortable? Why do martyrs rot in prison for faith if it is only a human construct designed to make you feel good.

Why does all christian children believe in the christian God; why does all the islamic children believe in the islamic God; why does all the jewish children believe in the jewish God; why does all the buddhistic children believe in the buddhistic God etc. etc. etc.????

 

[Mathilda]

And what about religious beliefs that are very uncomfortable? Why do martyrs rot in prison for faith if it is only a human construct designed to make you feel good.

It's not only Christians who rot in prisons for their faith. Is that what qualifies a religion as a true one? Does dying for it qualify as well?

 

[warpus]

I've found that the Christian Bible has evidence to support its claims that no other religious text has. That's what sets it apart.

When I talk to a Muslim he says that the Koran has such evidence, when I talk to a Hindu he says that the Śruti has such evidence, when I talk to a
member of the Baha'i faith he tells me that the Kitáb-i-Aqdas has such evidence, when I talk to a Sikh he tells me that the Guru Granth Sahib has such evidence, etc. As an outside observer, none of the religious texts stand out. They all make claims of being "the truth" without any evidence.

A truthseeker does not try to appease every immitation god man can create. He merely looks for the truth, and dedicates himself to act accordingly. My goal is to set myself to serving the Truth I found, namely Christ.

So please don't say that the Christian God has made all of humanity an offer. You feel that he has made an offer to you, based on your particular interpretation. Based on my particular interpretation there is no offer. You are no more right than I am, or than the Buddhist is.

But you have found the true religious text. The Bible is out there. I urge you to investigate it. He expects you to, because he counts on you to follow your own human desire to seek the reality of this world, and its true meaning.

Do you have any idea how many religious texts are out there? Here's a short list

I am not going to investigate each and every one to find "the truth". If the truth is really that obvious then it should stand out.

 

[angeleyes]

....I am not going to investigate each and every one to find "the truth". If the truth is really that obvious then it should stand out.

If about one subject there are thousand opinions, then i don't think one of them is true, i think no one of them is true.

 

[puglover]

If about one subject there are thousand opinions, then i don't think one of them is true, i think no one of them is true.

Self-enforced ignorance? I'll leave you to it then.

When I talk to a Muslim he says that the Koran has such evidence, when I talk to a Hindu he says that the Śruti has such evidence, when I talk to a
member of the Baha'i faith he tells me that the Kitáb-i-Aqdas has such evidence, when I talk to a Sikh he tells me that the Guru Granth Sahib has such evidence, etc. As an outside observer, none of the religious texts stand out. They all make claims of being "the truth" without any evidence.

Do you really believe there is no evidence for what they believe? Because judging by the rest of the post it seems you don't want to find the truth because the truth is work. One of us is right. And we must be ready to work to find out who it is. It is man's duty.

 

[angeleyes]

Self-enforced ignorance? I'll leave you to it then.

Do you think, out of more than a thousand possibility's, you have the ONE that's TRUE??
What a selfinflated ego you must have (but you share this with the majority of mankind).

 

[puglover]

Do you think, out of more than a thousand possibility's, you have the ONE that's TRUE??
What a selfinflated ego you must have (but you share this with the majority of mankind).

Ego? Does it take ego to think of yourself as a sinful being who's only hope is the mercy of a perfect God?

There are INFINITE solutions to "1+1=x" but only one works.

 

[angeleyes]

Ego? Does it take ego to think of yourself as a sinful being who's only hope is the mercy of a perfect God?

Yes, i do. Because you think you worship the right God, you think you have choosen the right God out of a countless possibilities. And you think that that God is also paying attention to you.

 

[stratos_v2]

Ego? Does it take ego to think of yourself as a sinful being who's only hope is the mercy of a perfect God?

There are INFINITE solutions to "1+1=x" but only one works.

I guess in this thread where dying to find out.

*hihat sound*
thank you, thank you. I'll be here all night.

 

[puglover]

Yes, i do. Because you think you worship the right God, you think you have choosen the right God out of a countless possibilities. And you think that that God is also paying attention to you.

I seek truth, not comfort. It is not arrogance to see something factual in the world around you.

 

[Adamb0mb]

Screw fantasy! I've seen the charge of a single electron!

let me know if you find any half-charges lying around.

 

[El_Machinae]

Question: are there people who believe in an afterlife that isn't split up in a good and a bad part ????

When I answered 50%, I was including this possibility.

Not all psychological illnesses can be cured by medicine.
Sure most forms of psychological illnesses can be explained as a chemical inbalance but a large portion of these illnesses can also be treated by therapy like regresion therapy and the likes. These hardly change any thing 'physical' yet can cure the illness. You could say that in some cases a physical abnormality is the effect and not the cause.

Many mental illnesses are merely outlier varients of normal behaviour. I guess they could be corrected, but you'd need to correct them vs. a standard. What would the standard be?

As well, talk-therapy represents a massive effect on the brain. The brain is not only plastic, but rather sensitive. While we think of drugs as more powerful than therapy (and they are), the effects of therapy are not minor. Merely with words, we can activate many regions of the brain, and these then respond to the stimulus. There's a reason why I can teach myself about quantum mechanics by listening to a lecturer - the brain responds. Teaching yourself to not be depressed or scared anymore is tougher, but only because our methods are imprecise; it's still the same neuronal activation and rewiring.

Why I believe that the 'meatware' is so important with regards to religion is due to the fact that the 'meatware' is vastly subject to changes, even with effects that religion lays the claim to. Religion lays heavy claims to things like 'self-control' and 'willpower' and 'faith'. A person will claim a spiritual reason for their moral behaviour, and the like. Sadly, these 'benefits' or 'effects' of spiritual living can be removed with a well-placed nail strike. A 'moral' person can be turned 'immoral' with selective brain damage. A person can become very faithful after brain injury (and not through introspective, but through damage). A person can start to hear God's voice on a regular basis after being in a car accident. Etc.

 

[stratos_v2]

As well, talk-therapy represents a massive effect on the brain. The brain is not only plastic, but rather sensitive. While we think of drugs as more powerful than therapy (and they are), the effects of therapy are not minor. Merely with words, we can activate many regions of the brain, and these then respond to the stimulus. There's a reason why I can teach myself about quantum mechanics by listening to a lecturer - the brain responds. Teaching yourself to not be depressed or scared anymore is tougher, but only because our methods are imprecise; it's still the same neuronal activation and rewiring.

well as i said before

This basiclly tells us that you can view the body as a machine to experience.
Now if we borrow from religion and say that a soul is needed to live this experience. (either created by the body, or inhibits the body externally)

So i never said (or intended to say) a soul would have to be metaphysical, the neuronal action initself can be seen as the soul of a body.

Why I believe that the 'meatware' is so important with regards to religion is due to the fact that the 'meatware' is vastly subject to changes, even with effects that religion lays the claim to. Religion lays heavy claims to things like 'self-control' and 'willpower' and 'faith'. A person will claim a spiritual reason for their moral behaviour, and the like. Sadly, these 'benefits' or 'effects' of spiritual living can be removed with a well-placed nail strike. A 'moral' person can be turned 'immoral' with selective brain damage. A person can become very faithful after brain injury (and not through introspective, but through damage). A person can start to hear God's voice on a regular basis after being in a car accident. Etc.

sorry for the confusion, when i say soul i actually just lend the word from christianity. I'm no where near religious.