How did you celebrate Halloween?

[Thoughtful Thug]

Isn't Christianity itself mostly a paganized Judaism?

It did started out as a reformist cult that eventually evolved to where it did accepted many people (gentiles) from many various backgrounds without strict adherence for a lot of Jewish laws.

I know it isn't exactly accurate...

 

[NovaKart]

If those are your criteria, then you're dealing with tropes too ubiquitous to really say that the Gospel was derivative of anything. That being said, if you investigate the pagan texts discussing figures claimed to be the basis of Jesus Christ (Mithras and Horus being the most popular candidates), you'll find that the similarities are often drawn out intentionally or fabricated altogether. Additionally, there's no reason to think that the Gospel writers would have had any association with the Horic or Mithraic cults, especially since the Mithraic cult postdates Christianity.


Some people talk out of their asses and ignore the fact that wine was used sacramentally in Judaism as well.

Sure, some connections exist, but the ones you're drawing don't.

I'm not suggesting the Gospels are derivative. I'm suggesting the idea of Christ as the son of God born of a virgin mother and born again after death is and this is a belief that is central to Christianity so it's pretty important and not just a minor detail.

Some people do talk out of their asses and claim they're the biological father of Anna Nicole Smith's baby as well but that's neither here nor there. Sorry I just had to get a pop culture reference in there somehow. Anyway there's some interesting ideas about the origin of the eucharist but I'm not going to hold that up as necessarily relevant.

 

[_random_]

I'm not suggesting the Gospels are derivative. I'm suggesting the idea of Christ as the son of God born of a virgin mother and born again after death is and this is a belief that is central to Christianity so it's pretty important and not just a minor detail.

Resurrected, not born again. Can you point to some figure in paganism who hits all those points then?

Some people do talk out of their asses and claim they're the biological father of Anna Nicole Smith's baby as well but that's neither here nor there. Sorry I just had to get a pop culture reference in there somehow. Anyway there's some interesting ideas about the origin of the eucharist but I'm not going to hold that up as necessarily relevant.

I've never heard any serious scholar suggest that the Rite is pagan in origin.

 

[NovaKart]

Dionysus, Attis, Horus. Yes, I mean resurrected and not born again precisely. Bear in mind I'm not saying they are precisely the same as Christ like I mentioned before, just the idea is in some ways similar. And I'm not suggesting the rite is pagan in origin either but perhaps influenced. Personally I think it's likely that Jesus was a reformer of the Jewish faith and that he got mixed up with ideas of pagan cults and was transformed into a messiah figure.

 

[_random_]

Dionysus, Attis, Horus. Yes, I mean resurrected and not born again precisely. Bear in mind I'm not saying they are precisely the same as Christ like I mentioned before, just the idea is in some ways similar. And I'm not suggesting the rite is pagan in origin either but perhaps influenced. Personally I think it's likely that Jesus was a reformer of the Jewish faith and that he got mixed up with ideas of pagan cults and was transformed into a messiah figure.

Attis is the only one of those born of a virgin, so I find it more likely that the idea of the Virgin Birth originated in the book of Isaiah (and in the fact that it actually happened, but I'll try to put my own beliefs aside for the moment). The similarities are all vague enough that coincidence is much more likely than influence. Messiah claimants were quite common in Jesus' time, and He fits the ideal of an Aaronic Messiah much more closely than any pagan ideal.

 

[NovaKart]

The idea that a virgin birth actually happened is really impossible to measure of course and is replicated in many divine individuals such as Buddha.

 

[_random_]

The idea that a virgin birth actually happened is really impossible to measure of course and is replicated in many divine individuals such as Buddha.

Certainly. But the Gospel writers were trying to establish Jesus as a Jewish Messiah, so it really only makes sense that Jewish prophecy was the source of the idea. Isaiah was writing around the 8th century BC, so it's very unlikely that he was inspired by any of the sources you've mentioned.

 

[NovaKart]

How is that? The idea that they weren't strongly influenced by Pagan belief is very unlikely. Especially considering some of the strange ideas that arose.

 

[_random_]

I'm not claiming that the influence is non-existence, but it is pretty marginal. Hellenic philosophy was a lot more influential than mythology anyway.

 

[Jehoshua]

You're thinking of Catholicism. Zing.

Ahem indeed.

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As to Randoms remarks regarding the Catholic theology and the eucharist, the actual substance of the theology is hardly pagan, but the terminology is construed in aristotelian language. So you have the reality that the bread and wine become absent and are replacedby the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ under the appearances of bread and wine, something the Eastern Orthodox would agree with, discussed in theology in terms of transubstantiation and accidents. However ultimately beyond the terminology there is nothing pagan I would say about the eucharistic doctrine.

 

[classical_hero]

http://www.ohio.edu/orgs/stars/Home.html

Personally I think they are being kill joys. Even though I would not allow my children to do this, if an adult wants to have fun at a party, then they can make the decision for themselves, but dressing up in costume is not racist. Again I say that seeing it as an issue is racist in itself.