How do you REX without going broke?

[madscientist]

To clear the air and make my view clear. REXing is getting as many cities as possible and then paying for them in the future. Early on this can be done a number of ways until Currency and CoL at which point all game plans work

1) Military expansion relying on acquired gold.

2) Massive shrine income.

3) Cottage abuse.

4) ALOT of scientists for the needed beakers.

5) Trade route abusing the GLH and coastal starts.

I have used all 5 approaches and combos of them for REXing, and all work well enough. Alot depends on tratis and starting techs. Creative and Philosophical leaders tend to favor the Library approach. Financial the cottage. Ind on teh coast, the GLH. Agressive, the sword. Spir with an early religion, the shrine. Imperialistic helps get faster workers, while EXP helps pumping out workers and graneries.

So REXing is a CE/SE/TE/RE thing (apologies to DaveM who is an "_E" phobe).

 

[Crusher1]

Unconquered Sun, Dave, and Future said it best - of course, that's not very surprising now is it =D. Imo the best tech path is something that eventually gets you to Pottery and Writing at which point you switch the slider to 0% and accumulate

You should fund your early empire by luxury resources and/or cottaging your Capital - just don't work the cottages until you have built enough settlers, escorts, workers, and built a Library - at which point every tile you work is a cottage.

New cities focus on Farms and Luxury resources followed by 4-2 Whipping. Settler at 4, build workers at 2, then 4-2 (chop) or 5-2 Library whips and assign scientist. Do this in all cities until you research techs like Alphabet and Currency then decide what kind of economy you wanna run. The #1 priority is get your economy back on track. The #2 priority is addressing happiness. This means Asthetics and Drama or Monarchy come after Currency.

Unless your ORG (2 pop whips for CH) COL won't be much help early because if your running a SE/FE you won't have the necessary happiness to run enough specialist and for everyone else, you won't have enough happiness or population (or production) to give you 4 pop whips needed for CH's.

So although some people tend to think a SE/FE makes a REX slow, it's the other way around. The more Farms and production tiles you have the more you can whip. The more you can whip the more settlers, workers, and escorts you can build. More cottages mean workers turns put into making a cottage instead of a Farm or a production tile which both do a better job at creating production than a cottage A LOT better. I guess it all depends on what people even think a REX is. When I REX the slider is at 0% and I'll be breaking even or losing a few gpt until I can build research and wealth. I aim for 6-8 cities by 800 BC and 10-15 cities by 1 AD. If you aren't aggressively settling then you aren't REXing imo - which is why the ORG trait wins. If you prefer a higher slider % with a slower expansion rate then everything I just wrote will have bad results, or at least, it wont work as well.

 

[Gorey]

For prince I'd check the leader reference chart.

where is this chart?

it's not in the refernece area of civfanatics.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You can get to 10-15 cities by 1 AD just by working special tiles, you don't need non-resource farms. FE/SE isn't going to look different at all during expo phase other than city spacing possibly, and they'll be working similar tiles too (best available). Using cottages does not preclude early specialists or building wealth/research, and the food difference for whips should be relatively trivial since the vast majority of the production for horizontal expansion so early is from either food specials or in some cases good converter tiles like grass hills.

 

[Gooblah]

The first time I really REX'd was a current game as Louis. I was on a peninsula and blocked in by Charlemagne and Joao II, so I whipped/chopped two settlers. The cities were settled just in time to block off my peninsula, which could hold 4 cities, and a small island with Horses that could hold one. After teching to Iron Working, I built up a Swordsman/Axeman stack and took all the Portuguese cities, except one that was razed by barbarians. At that moment, I had a gold deficit at 0% research. Thankfully, I had built the Great Wall, so I settled my Great Spy in Aachen, then proceeded to tech to Alphabet (slowly....). I killed a few units and forced the cities to focus on commerce, instead of production. My power rating remained relatively high due to the prewar buildup, and the continent was a happy HolyRoman Buddhist bloc, so I stayed out of war. After grabbing Alphabet, I ran an EE, grabbing Code of Laws (and chopping Courthouses everywhere), and Currency. I also built the GLH, with raised my GPT by 20!

My notes:
1) Diplomacy! The crash will likely force you to make choices about units, so instead focus on careful diplomacy. Make friends with big guys and techers, and the guys next to you.
2) Commerce. Cottages, cottages, cottages....see: DaveMCW for more advice.
3) Diplomacy!!!!
4) Workers. Spam 'em. Cost less in upkeep IIRC and will transform your empire into a rich land waiting for the end of the recession.

 

[bhavv]

Madscientist covered just about everything, plus plenty that I didnt already know.

To me, it seems like you are picking the wrong civ and map type. Speaking from being able to comfortably settle 12 cities by 1 AD on monarch, and 9-12 based on how many commerce resources I have on Immortal, the key to succesfully playing a REX strategy is by using one of the following leaders, in my prefered order from strongest to weakest:

Darius - FIN / ORG is the best combination for cutting down expansion costs early on, plus a great early rush UU and +2 UB which basically means you have the main EXP trait bonus as well. Also consider playing as Darius of Holy Rome for the Rathaus. Darius is ideal for non coastal maps.

Willem van Orange - FIN / CRE allows for great early REXing with cottages, cheap libraries, and free border pops allow you to settle any good city site with resources two tiles away. UB is very good for Archipelago maps, and also build the GLH and keep all your cities coastal. No need unrestricted leaders unless you are not playing an Archipelago map and want to use FIN / CRE.

Hannibal - FIN / CHM another archipelago map civ like Willem, you want to use GLH rexing here too. You dont get cheaper buildings or free culture, but you do get extra which means larger cities and more tiles worked - start your cities producing Granaries as usual, and then whip monuments for 2 pop if possible for lots of spillover, or build it for one turn then whip for one pop. Your cities will be able to work 2 extra tiles. All this and we havnt even looked at the UB which adds yet another trade route to your cities! You want to pick up compass ASAP and you can use it to trade for Alphabet / Mathematics / Calender / CoL and currency while rescuing your economy with Cothons. This is a very powerful tactic, with GLH and currency you will have 5 trade routes per city. Unrestricted option with hannibal is not worth it, only use him on archipelago maps.

Pacal II - FIN / EXP as the civilopedia says, wealthy, healthy and happy make Pacal a great choice. You get bonus with ball courts, get your workers out faster, extra health per city, and faster Granaries and Harbors making him ideal for just about any map type. For unrestricted options try Pacal II of Inca or Carthage to greatly boost the advantage of EXP - Pick Inca for inland games for border popping with Granaries, or Carthage for Archipelago maps with GLH and cothons.

Elizabeth - FIN / PHI makes a great choice for inland maps and specialist economy. Try to set up a Great Merchant farm possibly using the GLH, or even just caste + merchants, and settle as many great merchants inside your best city as possible to power up your economy. The bonus of doing this is combining Philo with the Stock Exchange - lots of settled merchants plus an extra 15% Gold can create a very powerful mid game economy. You can also try playing as Korea to take advantage of PHI + Seowon, but the Stock Exchange is better.

Other ones I havnt tried yet are Hauyna Caupac of Mali, and Victoria for FIN / IMP because Elizabeth is a lot lot better anyway.

Wonder spam is not used in REXing, except for the GLH and if you marble you can try for Parthenon, Great Library, Mausoleum and Taj, but you cant be wasting your time on other ancient wonders. Collosus can be added to your GLH city for more Great Merchant points, but I never manage to build it on Immortal, but up to monarch it is very possible and gives you more Great Merchants to settle. The more GMs you settle the better, and the more cities you can afford to build.

 

[Crusher1]

Using cottages does not preclude early specialists or building wealth/research, and the food difference for whips should be relatively trivial since the vast majority of the production for horizontal expansion so early is from either food specials or in some cases good

I disagree. While your building a cottage the SE/FE is building a Farm (this includes luxury) or a Mine. When your working the cottage the SE/FE is growing quicker or getting more production - both lead to better whipping or more production. In the early phase, while you are working that cottage and going through the slider, the SE/FE has an instant 6 beakers. Scientist get you to your target tech faster, at which point you can decide SE/FE/CE/EE/Quit!?, or whatever floats your boat.

Meinteam- I watched your utube video so the following sentence is for you ^^. Very Nice work on the video btw.

When you combine uber micro management every single turn you can really surge your REX a long. I like cottages too - just not outside the capital during the REX phase because it slows the process down. After I already have Farms (this includes Luxury resources, not just some random Farm) and mines and while teching towards Currency, after the Settler pump is done - if I decide the map is suited for cottages - then I start making cottages in the appropriate places and transition from scientist to cottages. Doing it too early is counterproductive to a REX. Yes, cottages are better the earlier you work them but I don't mind delaying the process if I am able to gain a lot more land quicker - Which you will when the focus is on production.

@ bhavv

I like:

Asoka
Ethiopia
Darius
Julius
Mehemmed

Basically anyone ORG which is Easily the best trait for a REX imo.

 

[Gorey]

anyone know anything about that leader reference chart?

 

[bhavv]

I forgot to add Mehmed. I did try him, but got off to a really poor start without FIN, I find that it is harder without FIN to keep your economy alive. I havnt tried asoka, I like the fast worker but the mausoleum is rubbish, and also I am never relying on religion when REXing so SPI seems like a waste. Im not too keen on IMP either because I find other traits more usefull, mainly FIN / ORG / CRE / EXP / CHA / PHI are all better for REXing.

Ethiopia looks like it could work, but Im a FIN plus economy boosting building noob, and a +25% culture monument is useless for REXing compared to Rathaus, Cothon, Ball Court, Apothecary or Stock Exchange, so it would have to be Zara Yaquob of something else, most likely Holy Rome.

 

[Ghpstage]

anyone know anything about that leader reference chart?

I assume he means the one in here. Its a general reference sheet which has quite a bit on the leaders.

 

[Crusher1]

Bhavv-

Sorry Mehemmed didnt work for you. For a pure Horizontal crash I think ORG is not just better, but game imbalancing better than any other trait out there.

Unconquered Sun and Iranon have some great advice on the overall value of food and production, both whom are elite players. If you get some free time I would suggest doing a search on them and do some reading

 

[Jamuka]

So take the initial hit to the tech slider and go for a booming recovery later?

More or less. Use scientist specialists when your economy crashes and to cover the gap till your cottages grow.
Code of laws, currency, and monarchy are the techs that should be prioritized to recover quickly. Your tech path should depend on your happiness recources. If you've got +3/4 from charismatic, religion, and luxury recources feel free to take the slow path and tech math -> currency -> code of laws. On the other hand, if your happiness sucks, it's beneficial to get writing, then go priesthood -> monarchy immediately.

The trick is to use just enough scientists to keep a decent tech rate. More scientists than that is unnessary and should be growing cottages or building axemen. Less than that and you'll fall too far behind.

 

[Crusher1]

I'd stick with fixing the economy first, then happiness. Use scientist to fuel quicker research through Currency. Once your economy is fixed continue REXing while fixing happiness issues with Monarchy or Asthetics/Drama and Then decide on a long term Economic Plan, I.E. CE, SE, HE, HE, EE, WE.

 

[Dirk1302]

Cottages!!

What he said, plain and simple as that, also reach alpha and currency quickly for production convertion. Never shy away from taking even more cities, if you can't get alpha/currency immed but you can reach writing just run scientists as crusher1 proposes in the post above.

 

[pangu]

I find that the best way to REX is by force... Let AIs work on the cottages, clear the jungles and work cottages while you spam troops.

Basically, build 3-4 cities, all focused on production with somewhat limited cottages. Build Oracle (to get CoL) and ToA in capital. Use CoL to trade for Alphabet. The GM and GP can be used to get shrines and run trade missions (or even bulb Currency if really desperate). The conquered cities should be focused on generating wealth. After CoL and Currency, grab Calender either through trading or peace deals. Sell extra resources for gold.

The difficulty is that with such kind a REX, I essentially have to forego siege (catapults). Deciding on when to add siege to your SoD seems to be the key. Hard rexxing is without siege is somewhat difficult unless you are AGG or CHA or have horses or have an uber UU like Romans.

 

[GoodGame]

The difficulty is that with such kind a REX, I essentially have to forego siege (catapults). Deciding on when to add siege to your SoD seems to be the key. Hard rexxing is without siege is somewhat difficult unless you are AGG or CHA or have horses or have an uber UU like Romans.

REXing by force will work if your neighbors have pansy traits and no early land combat UU. The flip side of the sword is if you fail to conquest (AI gets longbows, hill city placement with tons of archers, has a good UU, has better resources than you that you can't steal) you've wasted tons of time, plus have lots of unit maintenance to pay. And I agree about cats---hard to get to them unless you luck out with cottage-floodplains or other quick cash, which means your REXing will end sooner.

But REXing by force is probably the only option if you overload the map with civs.

In all-around standard games, I have to go with REXing by expansive workers, chop-chop.

 

[bhavv]

My screenshots of a successful Rex if anyone is interested

Spoiler :

This one was on noble though, I were able to support the expansion with my Great Merchant farm (GLH + Collosus + Glib capital), plus with simply placing markets in my main cities on top of the usual Courthouse + Cothon. The sciene rate quickly picks up once you have courthouses and harbors in every city, and of course it is that little extra better if you have either Rathaus or Cothon UB's.

I made a mistake of not having enough workers again, I need to work on that and have more workers ready for the rex.

 

[mrtauntaun]

Lots of great advice in here, thanks a lot guys.

My only other questions is this: Do you set your research slider to 0% immediately and save the money for deficit spending later, or do you gradually bring it down as you can't afford a high slider? I can see three things happening:

A. Set to 0% Research out of the gate and stockpile cash
B. As you go from +gold per turn to -gold per turn, manually adjust rate to +gold
C. Let the slider go down on it's own as you hit 0 gold with -gold per turn.

I don't think C is the correct answer, but if I knew for sure I wouldn't be here

 

[madscientist]

Lots of great advice in here, thanks a lot guys.

My only other questions is this: Do you set your research slider to 0% immediately and save the money for deficit spending later, or do you gradually bring it down as you can't afford a high slider? I can see three things happening:

A. Set to 0% Research out of the gate and stockpile cash
B. As you go from +gold per turn to -gold per turn, manually adjust rate to +gold
C. Let the slider go down on it's own as you hit 0 gold with -gold per turn.

I don't think C is the correct answer, but if I knew for sure I wouldn't be here

The faster you get a tech, the faster you get the benefits. I almost always play from a gold deficet unless the slider drops to 20% science. Then I will build a treasury at 0% if I have libraries to avoid rounding off (a tip I got only recently in a posted game).

 

[UncleJJ]

Cottages are a good way for Financial civs to finance REX and it gives a rapid payoff with 3 commerce for a riverside cottage and a non-riverside hamlet but other civs find that a slower method. Commerce is relatively difficult to get in the early game (which is why a gold mine is so valuable) while hammers are more available through hills, chopping and whipping using high food tiles.

A useful alternative is to part build some wonders and use the failure cash to finance deficit research. That is especially useful if they have the appropriate resource and can be supplimented by a chop or two (turning wood to gold) or hammer overflow from a whip (turning pop to gold). Then if the gold is spent when cities have libraries this gives an effective rate of 2.25 beakers for 1 hammer. Not only is this a better rate than building Wealth or Science but it can be done before Alphabet or Currency and help getting to those two techs. I always try to put a few hammers into a wonder or two (Pyramids is usually a good dummy wonder) and pick up 200 gold or so to help get to the critical techs that salvage the economy.