How do you REX without going broke?

[TheMeInTeam]

That's very interesting. Which of the AI leader statistics are you talking about? "Aggression level" maybe? How are the "high", "very high" ratings linked to power ratio percentages? Is there a place where this info is condensed in a strategy guide?

It's defined in the XMLs. Ori and DanF both have references in excel that show who needs what power rating to DoW too. Look for the "maxwarpower" and limited war etc etc stuff.

I think there's a guide in creation/customization that explains the XML values too.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I had a game the other day that went much like your Mao game, but I didn't get to unit massing. I had maybe three units in a border city when Fredrick declared, and they held off the first wave (pre-construction). I was a little unprepared, but I immediately whipped some garrison units in the city and a few close cities to send to the border one. They all arrived in time and held off the second wave. I continued to produce a mix of units and ship them to the border. Eventually Fredrick lost enough units and I had enough built up to counter attack and take a couple of his close cities, then sue for peace. Peace for me usually means secure what you took, build up for the 10 turns, and launch the next offensive until the AI that DoW you is eliminated.

Early game a good unit mix in a garrison city can hold off huge stacks while re-reinforcements are built and arrive. Keep tabs on enemy tech as siege drastically affects your ability to defend. Once the enemy starts bringing siege you better be able to counter with something (more siege, mounted units, diplomacy, etc).

Worry about your power when you are ready for war so you will actually make use of your units. You need some units to defend, but don't need a SoD that keeps up with the enemy's power. If you do that you sink a lot of hammers into units that may never see battle. Diplomacy is easier and more efficient to manage the chance of war.

Thnx for the tips. This was definitely part of my problem. I've just recently made the move to prince. On noble, I would generally establish a unit pump early on (1st or 2nd settler) and do nothing but pump units out. This was (generally speaking) because I would be warring with a neighbor soon.

I also waited too long for REX. I thought I did a good job with it, but when my settler finally reached what would have been the outer borders of my civ, I saw that Willem van Oranje with his CRE trait had already settled. I plopped down on the best plot of land I could find just outside his borders and sent my other 2 settlers to seal the rest of the landmass in. It was too late, though. All the good land was taken.

Next game, I'll remember this stuff. It's funny. I remember having similar issues with the map when I first made the move to Noble. I kept getting these crappy food-poor, hammer-poor, resource-poor maps. At the end of my Noble run, I was crushing the AI on random everything. Now, I'm back to crappy maps! I guess once I learn to deal with crappy land, I'll start getting better starts! LoL

 

[itsnotme]

You can build libraries in high-food cities and run scientists while waiting for cottages to grow.

Cottages don't grow if you don't work them unless you're talking about working them in one city and running scientists in another.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I think he's perhaps saying to use any low food/production tiles for your scientists until you can re-adjust your science slider. But keep working the hamlets/villages/towns

 

[popejubal]

Step 1: Build Cottages
Step 2:
Step 3: Profit!

...in all seriousness, though, you will need to raze at least some of the cities that you capture even if they're good cities just because you won't be able to afford them until Code of Laws or Currency (or both).

That assumes you're getting cities through conquest. If you're building Settlers fast enough to crash your economy, then you need to just build more Cottages since you will have a very hard time building Settlers fast enough to crash your economy while still building enough workers to keep up with the new cities and enough military units to keep your cities from becoming AI cities.

Obtaining a holy city with a Shrine also helps a great deal, but my opinion is that founding your own religion is rarely worthwhile. Take your neighbor's religion instead. Take it with fire and axe and sword.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

If you're building Settlers fast enough to crash your economy, then you need to just build more Cottages since you will have a very hard time building Settlers fast enough to crash your economy while still building enough workers to keep up with the new cities and enough military units to keep your cities from becoming AI cities.

Not true. If you are chop/whipping settlers you can get them out there very fast. Which is especially necessary if you have an IMP, ORG, or CRE leader to compete with for land grabs. Second or capital city should be some sort of unit pump (whip or production based) to defend your outer cities. Remember, you don't need to have hefty defenses in your interior cities.

Also assuming they aren't close enough initially for a rush (or perhaps you have too little production tiles). I've been able to completely tank my economy before Judaism was founded in a Noble game. I was pumping workers/settlers out of a couple food heavy/granary cities with HerRule and had settled far away to peacefully claim a lot of land before my very distant neighbor was able to settle in.

 

[futurehermit]

DaveMcW is right here. Cottages to pay the maintenance, scientists off libraries for the beakers. As the cottages mature, you can crank up your slider.

 

[pfo]

You need to make money to offset the maintenance cost of your empire.

If you found an early religion and build the shrine, this will make some money to afford expansion.

Settle in areas where their are gems, gold or silver, those make decent money to afford some expansion (maybe enough to afford 1-2 early cities without dipping slider).

Settle an early commerce city and just cottage it up. Watch as the cottages grow, time your expansion so that you don't find your research slider going down to pay for your empire (this is a kinda slow approach).

Go for a specialist economy so that the science slider is less or completely irrelevant.

Research alphabet so you can build research, making the science slider less or completely irrelevant.

In the long run, falling behind in science, but settling more land, will give you the edge. You will lose the short term edge as your research falls behind, but as cities grow and mature you will have more total production. Some cities could be building research, making up for the lost research in maintenance costs.

 

[pi-r8]

protective, stone wall chops lol.

 

[budweiser]

I really believe the only answer is cottages. It's the only universal. Some traits will give an advantage to libs and some will give an advantage to scientists, but the common tool availabel to all is cottages. Its too costly to spend turns making a lib early on. If you want to grab all the land, build workers, settlers, and units (pref axes, but use chariots or archers if need be). Have plenty of workers out there to make cottages.

Pottery> Alphabet> Currency is the way to go. CoL is for later, killing your own men to build a building doesnt do anything for you interms of getting out another settler or worker faster. True, it may lower your maintenance costs, but it will also lower your power.

 

[itsnotme]

I really believe the only answer is cottages.QUOTE]

Just out of curiousity, what about those heavy specialist economy players who don't rely on cottages: they would prove your theory wrong or would have said otherwise, wouldn't they?

 

[Monsterzuma]

Look for the "maxwarpower" and limited war etc etc stuff.

Ah, thanks. I don't think those values are in my reference booklet, unless they are called differently in there... Hence the confusion.

 

[popejubal]

I really believe the only answer is cottages.QUOTE]

Just out of curiousity, what about those heavy specialist economy players who don't rely on cottages: they would prove your theory wrong or would have said otherwise, wouldn't they?

Not really. If you're building your empire on specialists, you can't REX very well because you can't assign very many specialists in the beginning of the game - you just don't have too many/any specialist slots even if you had infinite population to assign to them. Specialist economies are only possible once you have either Caste System or enough buildings to create lots of specialists in your cities.

Cottages can start to work as soon as you have pottery, so the only techs you really need to REX with cottages are Pottery, Agriculture and Mining/Bronze Working.

Specialist/Farm economies tend to hit their biggest expansion period when they start consuming the territory of their neighbors with a bulb-earned short term economic advantage - and by that time, most people wouldn't call that REXing anymore.

 

[budweiser]

I really believe the only answer is cottages.QUOTE]

Just out of curiousity, what about those heavy specialist economy players who don't rely on cottages: they would prove your theory wrong or would have said otherwise, wouldn't they?

A SE economy is for later. If you are REXing, then you are going to get 3 beakers per unit of pop, after you have a library in place, which will cost you build turns. It's better to work the cottage unless you have some sort of trait advantage. I dont see the advantage of a scientist here unless you want the GP points. GP points arent helping the rex.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Specs w/o rep are a terrible choice.

UNLESS YOU FACTOR IN GPP. Then they can be the strongest, or at least a critical contributor. For cities outside an academy capitol, factoring in the pop cost in food:

Grassland:

Cottage: 1 commerce (gold or research)
Hamlet: 2 commerce (gold or research)
Village (I'll stop here for early game): 3 commerce (gold or research)

Scientist: -2f 3 beakers
Merchant: -2f 3 gold
Artist: You're not going to use this to pay for expansion or help early research.

Grass mine: -1f 3 beakers (science) or gold (wealth)
Plains mine: -2f 4 beakers or gold
Caste workshop/plains forest: -1f 2 beakers or gold

In terms of raw yield, hammers win over specialists w/o rep unless you're getting great people! Grass mines truly own the crap out of a scientist in raw yield here, as you can work TWO grass mines/2 farms, rather than 1 scientist! Even a plains mine is better (before rep/gpp)

Cottages are way more pop efficient. They don't cost food at all on grassland, so you can run more cottages than specialists given a low happy cap.

Specialists are more tile efficient. If going this route pack cities closer together, because you need less total tiles to make cities strong and it helps keep caps more reasonable.

Very frequently you can get quite far on passive commerce during expansion no matter what you do.

 

[btgwynn]

Cottages! On Rivers! Early!

There's no need to find a city site that grabs three gold hills (that you won't be able to feed until it reaches pop 6+ anyway) if you lay down a few cottages on a river (often accompanies your spawn location). Tech pottery VERY early and they will be mature that much sooner.

For me running scientists is last ditch, by the time you have libraries you should have cottages producing 3 coins already.

For the mid level player a good exercise is expanding until you are on the verge of strike, and go city to city to find where you can eke out one more commerce coin to stay solvent.

 

[budweiser]

Yeah early. Pottery should be your second or third tech, even ahead of BW unless you are surrounded by trees.

 

[itsnotme]

Not really. If you're building your empire on specialists, you can't REX very well because you can't assign very many specialists in the beginning of the game - you just don't have too many/any specialist slots even if you had infinite population to assign to them. Specialist economies are only possible once you have either Caste System or enough buildings to create lots of specialists in your cities.

Cottages can start to work as soon as you have pottery, so the only techs you really need to REX with cottages are Pottery, Agriculture and Mining/Bronze Working.

Specialist/Farm economies tend to hit their biggest expansion period when they start consuming the territory of their neighbors with a bulb-earned short term economic advantage - and by that time, most people wouldn't call that REXing anymore.

So using the term REX'ing in a SE game is irrelevant?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

For me running scientists is last ditch, by the time you have libraries you should have cottages producing 3 coins already.

You definitely want the great people points. Early.

 

[GoodGame]

Pay attention to the slider bar. Normally keep it as close to 100% research as you can, but start to end REXing when your civ starts losing money with research at 60%. Or at least slow down REXing at this point in favor of workers to build up infrastructure, and buildings and research techs that improve your cash flow.

And one cottage per city helps keep costs down.

You could also go Organized, avoid organized religion, UB courthouse (Ziggarauts are nice), focus on REXing for large river locations (chop those river forests generally for +1 commerce) & early luxuries (more happy = more worked tiles, which can equal more money). Early Currency (+1 trade routes) helps a lot as well as having at least one good trading partner for trade routes; Coastal cities + GL wonder helps also.