How important is it for Firaxis to admit mistakes or acknowledge failure?

[aelf]

I see this come up again and again. Some people (not just here) seem to place some importance on Firaxis admitting that they made a mistake or acknowledging their failure with Civ7.

How effective do you think something like that would be in creating goodwill or boosting future sales (these might not necessarily go hand-in-hand)? And what, specifically, do you think Firaxis needs to do in terms of sending such a message? Some possible options (not mutually exclusive):

1. Admit the game was launched in a suboptimal state
2. Admit the launch was rushed
3. Acknowledge sales have been below expectations
4. Acknowledge that player reaction has been more negative than they expected
5. Admit they underestimated how negatively players would react to civ-switching/age transitions
6. Admit they made a mistake putting in civ-switching/age transitions

PS: This does not mean I personally believe any of the above that Firaxis is supposed to admit/acknowledge is true.

 

[CliffCo]

I feel that they should make an announcement based on all all the negative feedback they are receiving and the poor sales, but while i feel it might create some temporary goodwill, unless they follow up with some major changes then that goodwill will only be temporary and wont have any affect on future sales. I feel like as things stand currently they need to start developing a plan for Civ8 if they're not doing so already.

 

[Gorbles]

I thought they already did by delaying the second half of the paid DLC, and by emphasising in multiple roadmap demonstrations that the UI hadn't hit the mark and they were making a lot of plans to bring it up to scratch.

I'd be surprised if they were allowed to admit the release date was too early.

Would be interested to see if anything else would move the needle on public sentiment though.

 

[0urBall]

Well 1 and 2 are surely more for the publisher to admit to, rather than Firaxis surely? The others I don't know if they can as the ages/civ switching are too fundamental to admit were bad moves

 

[Gori the Grey]

They won't make an explicit apology, and it's not important that they do.

The things they fix will constitute an implicit apology. Hiring sukritact was a tacit admission that the UI was lousy.

I suspect that behind the scenes they might be scrambling to devise a way for players to play the same civ through the whole game; if they do come out with some such "feature," it will be a tacit admission that they hadn't properly assessed how unpopular civ switching would be.

If they develop DLCs that represent a good bargain for the money, that will be a tacit admission that they charged too much for too little in the early ones.

I doubt they'd ever address its being released early/unfinished; there's no way to go back and correct that.

 

[MutilationWave]

I thought they already did by delaying the second half of the paid DLC, and by emphasising in multiple roadmap demonstrations that the UI hadn't hit the mark and they were making a lot of plans to bring it up to scratch.

I'd be surprised if they were allowed to admit the release date was too early.

Would be interested to see if anything else would move the needle on public sentiment though.

I think they just need to be more open and communicative. I understand not wanting to talk crap about your own game, but here's what I think would help people stick around-

Make one big apology for the rushed launch and a promise to make it better. Demonstrate appreciation for the players that have stuck with them. No finger pointing or excuses necessary. Then-

Weekly updates. What we're working on right now. Rough patch schedule. Perhaps a vote on what issues are most important to the players, which would need to be advertised heavily including on the start screen of the game.

I really feel like the auto explore thing was kind of a slap in the face. I'm sure there are like ten people out there who are fuming about lack of auto explore.
Meanwhile, at the most basic of easy fixes.

-We have the shipbuilding mastery bug.

-We have civs that can't figure out how to create their unique quarter.

-We have civs willing to give away their second best city to end a war they started and there was limited or even no fighting in.

-There is no wait command! We lost so many hotkeys in this version but come on. This makes managing a large military a huge pain in the ass.

-Broken options! The option to not auto select the next unit does not work at all.

-Patch 1.2, as great as it is, broke treasure resources.

I can go on and on, that's just what I've been talking about recently.

More communication. Weekly update. Stop wasting resources on a discord about auto explore of all stupid things.

Hell have @sukritact write it! It's like he's under embargo. He could even do a little thing like here's a sneak peak on what I worked on this week. Everybody loves sukritact.

 

[stealth_nsk]

There are some PR rules to follow if you don't want to ruin your product, so I'd say:

1. After the majority of problems will be fixed, so they could show the path of redemption, similar to Cyberpunk 2077
2. I don't think that's something to admit
3. Acknowledging sales below expectations (if they are) is something, which is usually done in financial reports. Works well if paired with point 1
4. Same as point 1, it doesn't work without it
5. That's pain point, because Firaxis is not going to change it in Civ7. Those things are often discussed much later, usually when next game is announced
6. Same as point 5

But I agree here, for most of the points we don't have enough information yet. Only with points 4 and 5 we could be quite sure.

 

[sixty4half]

I think it's a pretty bad idea for them to "admit" (I use quotes because that's your word) that civ switching and ages were a "mistake." (Again, your words)

What's that going to do? Make the people upset about it feel a little bit better? Explain how that helps the situation?

What it would definitely do is alienate the people that find it enjoyable! So you've got them in a catch 22.

Seems like that would do more harm than good. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[AD1730]

They should admit to 1-2, 4-5 (if Take Two wants to make a statement on sales, they can, I don't see much point in Firaxis discussing this). From this admission/apology should come a commitment to communicate on a weekly basis, outlining patch notes/update plans, much in the way Paradox does with some of their titles.

Why do they need to admit that they underestimated how negatively players would react to civ-switching/age transitions? Well, right now, it appears that they're just concerned with the more technical aspects, nipping around the edges at issues. While this is understandable and satiates some, it doesn't move the needle for those who aren't on board with the major mechanics of the game and makes those people feel ignored. Acknowledging that they failed to understand those players' concerns might help reconnect with that group. Civ does not have a big enough fanbase to alienate so many people.

I wouldn't admit to 6 unless you are going to remove or radically alter civ-switching/age transitions, and I don't see such an admission coming without extensive personnel changes.

 

[misesfan]

This will never happen, as it would take a very strong capability for intellectual honesty to admit to any mistakes. I dont see that from the current staff ay Firaxis or 2K.

 

[NickTheGreek!]

What they say, or write, is not important to me. What they do is very important. The best way to deal with mistakes is to correct them (if they truly are mistakes). I bought the game on relase and did not regret it, but i think it released half baked and is very expensive (would not buy any other game at this price other than CIV). As for "civ-switching/age transitions", i thought it would be awful before playing but it is not that bad really. CIV on release has always been messy(maybe a bit more with CIV7) but i trust that in the end we will get a good game.

 

[itix]

I don't think their corporate culture allows admitting mistakes. It always goes something like "thank you for your patience, thank you," etc.

But it does not matter. I don't see it as meaningful at this point. The game is what it is. Good game to some, bad game to some others. Unfortunately, there is no savescum option to go back in history and fix past mistakes.

 

[sixty4half]

Yeah in the corporate world you don't apologize.

Say you're running late for a board meeting and several other millionaires are waiting on you. When you arrive you thank them for their patience, you don't apologize for wasting their time.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

I think they just need to be more open and communicative.

More communication. Weekly update. Stop wasting resources on a discord about auto explore of all stupid things.

Hell have @sukritact write it! It's like he's under embargo. He could even do a little thing like here's a sneak peak on what I worked on this week. Everybody loves sukritact.

I would advise not to. Let me explain why.

First: The anticipation of the launch of a Civilization where one can identify, plays a big role in the WOW factor, being patience and calm bring big rewards.
Second: If I'd be a dev, that has being given CARTE BLANCHE so to say... free experimentation... complete freedom to modify MY LOCAL copy of the game
to any possible degree... super OP unique Units, blazy fast AI that just wants your girls and gold. Custom tech, culture, police, industry, treasure spending and complex law system from the beginning of times.... (remember the Babylonians tablets has 256 laws... not 20, not 10.... 256.... in 3500BC.... and similarly the neighbour Indians probably had their own set too before Mohenjo Daro got Zhapped....)... I'd not want to disclose my work with anybody but the head-chief... and maybe a couple of random beta tester friends... no pressures of any kind... just limitless Pizzas, Mango juices, and free Cinema tickets...

Sukritrakt will be assigned some tasks or he will be given CARTE BLANCHE???

If what you think is better for him, and us... is to just follows some guidelines, draw some new tracks so everybody can fit in... then yes...
weekly updates will announce us every time a new track is laid down a nail has been removed and by week 14 we will have a complete new game
in our hands... personally I'd vote for stay on the Big announcement policy, but also give some devs CARTE BLANCHE... that would be more
than enough good news to me... the vote is of great importance... more talk means more equality... less freedom of choice... of experimentation...
I would like Fast Crusaders on Flying Chariots that spits fire ready for the first Crusade...
Also I would like to burn down both the Great Library of Alexandria and the Temple of Solomon... or to be able to... with the consequences of this or that action...
I would love to be able to Choose Malcolm X as my president and see his past and future re-incarnation with the evolving of time... what a concept... this or Immortality?
etc
etc

A Discord server live looks to me like a public owned company, that is unable to take any decisions, because both are wrong, and do nothing as a result...
or change subject and pretend that discussion never happened...
Complete freedom of choice and speech are hard to combine in that kind of environment.

 

[Yzman]

An apology from a company is a pointless statement to me. I'd rather they continue to improve the game and give me new stuff to play. That is what I want. Not some silly PR statement.

 

[CliffCo]

I understand once the novelty starts to wear off many people will spend less time posting about a game on Reddit or in FB groups etc, but there’s been a large decline in activity on both of these over the last couple of months. Whether that’s due to a drop in interest due to the issues since release or some other reason who knows but there’s certainly a lot of players who have reverted back to playing Civ6.

 

[Askia Muhammad]

I see this come up again and again. Some people (not just here) seem to place some importance on Firaxis admitting that they made a mistake or acknowledging their failure with Civ7.

How effective do you think something like that would be in creating goodwill or boosting future sales (these might not necessarily go hand-in-hand)? And what, specifically, do you think Firaxis needs to do in terms of sending such a message? Some possible options (not mutually exclusive):

1. Admit the game was launched in a suboptimal state
2. Admit the launch was rushed
3. Acknowledge sales have been below expectations
4. Acknowledge that player reaction has been more negative than they expected
5. Admit they underestimated how negatively players would react to civ-switching/age transitions
6. Admit they made a mistake putting in civ-switching/age transitions

PS: This does not mean I personally believe any of the above that Firaxis is supposed to admit/acknowledge is true.

I don’t think it does them any good to admit that. Their time is better spent working on the patches and seeing where it gets them.

I think public admission of failure/early release/underestimation of bad features without changes coinciding with them would be a death knell for this iteration of the game.

 

[Kwami]

I understand once the novelty starts to wear off many people will spend less time posting about a game on Reddit or in FB groups etc, but there’s been a large decline in activity on both of these over the last couple of months. Whether that’s due to a drop in interest due to the issues since release or some other reason who knows but there’s certainly a lot of players who have reverted back to playing Civ6.

This happens after every new Civilization game is launched. People who like the previous one better go back to the previous one and then continuously tell the rest of us why we're wrong for liking the new one better. Then, Firaxis releases patches, DLC, and expansions and eventually the new game has more players than the old game.

 

[Askia Muhammad]

This happens after every new Civilization game is launched. People who like the previous one better go back to the previous one and then continuously tell the rest of us why we're wrong for liking the new one better. Then, Firaxis releases patches, DLC, and expansions and eventually the new game has more players than the old game.

Again, please look at the numbers. This launch is atypical. The only one it’s mirroring is Beyond Earth.

 

[Leucarum]

I don't think Civ7 was so terrible that it needs an apology. An acknowledgement that the most experimental systems have been unpopular would give me more confidence, and I'd hope to see significant work in giving players more flexibility as to what sort of game they want. Ultimately I don't think it will bounce back without a "classic" mode or some options to make it feel far more like a conventional civ game.