The hate for Civ7 will end the series, if not soon then eventually

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

I would even argue Fallout 2 isn't a real Fallout. Series have gone such a steep downhill...

It is. How civilization can return. But Postapocalyptic genre doesn't like Old World civilization to returns.

 

[ThunderLizard2]

I'm not in a position to say that. I'm just saying I don't believe we'll see huge game-changing overhaul mods for Civ6 like we did for Civ5 (and I think Civ4) unless access to source code is given.

Biggest disapointment with Civ VI was mods could not fix Firaxis' mess like they did with Civ V vox populi mod. Civ VII going the same direction.

 

[Sherlock]

The gaming industry in general seems eager to find new ways to alienate their customer base. The Switch 2 debacle comes to mind. There's a new RTS on steam I was going to buy.... until I read their crazy EULA.

So many examples... I'm glad I've got old games like CiV to play.

 

[Yzman]

The gaming industry in general seems eager to find new ways to alienate their customer base. The Switch 2 debacle comes to mind. There's a new RTS on steam I was going to buy.... until I read their crazy EULA.

So many examples... I'm glad I've got old games like CiV to play.

Switch 2 debacle?

 

[Civinator]

The gaming industry in general seems eager to find new ways to alienate their customer base. There's a new RTS on steam I was going to buy.... until I read their crazy EULA.

I gave back Millennia after reading their EULA.

 

[tman2000]

Switch 2 debacle?

$90 games etc

 

[Yzman]

$90 games etc

I will not trust anything about pricing until I see prices. I watched the directs, those prices weren't mentioned.

 

[thecrazyscot]

$90 games etc

Debacle? That's a funny way of describing pre-orders selling out.

 

[GeneralZift]

Debacle? That's a funny way of describing pre-orders selling out.

He's referring specifically to Mario Kart World, not the console itself, as I understand.

Gamers by the way, they must be addicts or something. The media which they consume every day gets lousier every year and they just suck it up and gaslight themselves into thinking it's good. Bugs, unfinished games, live service, predatory monetisation and more -- but they will buy anyway because it's an addiction.
Sorry if that's an unpopular opinion but if the consumers don't start resisting the negative change then they shouldn't be surprised when it comes back in their face.

 

[Kimurae]

Its because games are becoming more expensive to make; more complex to debug/QA; and lower margins when adjusting for inflation.

I remember buying Civ 2 for around $60 in 1995 at CompUSA. It came with an amazing manual and tech tree poster. In today's dollars that's around $125. Phantasy Star 2 was $80 I think.

Development teams were small. Civ 2 was a major hit and sold around 600K copies that year (wikipedia). Civ V sold around 8 million.

Hence the risk/numbers are different. The market is bigger, but games cost more, people expect more, and expect 1999 prices in 2025.

Also add investment firms that buy up these companies and expect ROI in 5 years.

That's why the gaming landscape is so mucked up.

It's solvable, but I feel that the short-term quarter focused industry leaders will devour everything like locusts and leave things in shambles. Though I doubt it will impact 4x gaming too much, it's already niche. But you might see Sony having one generation to themselves (PS6) before they completely screw it up, and gaming shrinks to niche titles on PC, and some classic emulated games on mobile (think Board games in the 80s, when it was... Clue/Monopoly and... niche games with cardboard chits)

 

[tman2000]

Its because games are becoming more expensive to make;

They’re more expensive than 1992 but the market is so much bigger.

It’s that these greedy Wall Street firms want games a liquidity sinks in a larger paradigm within MMT.

It’s easy to make money. But to make $1 billion to suck liquidity from the market? Only a couple games do that but they are all trying. Every executive suite wants to be the next ones to do it.

 

[Core Imposter]

I can't buy that it takes all that dough to discover that the gameplay is not good. I don't buy that everyone in the development chain was surprised. Things had to go off the rails at some point and it wasn't corrected. That's my opinion. And I don't know who deserves the most responsibility for it. Then the other problems on top of that are equally mysterious.

 

[civlateintothenights]

Debacle? That's a funny way of describing pre-orders selling out.

I've started to think that they knew the game was going to be poorly received, but despite that, that hardcore fans would initially shell out any amounts of money - so they took advantage of that, priced it ludicrously, and made bank before the negative word of mouth tanked sales.

 

[tman2000]

I've started to think that they knew the game was going to be poorly received, but despite that, that hardcore fans would initially shell out any amounts of money - so they took advantage of that, priced it ludicrously, and made bank before the negative word of mouth tanked sales.

Remember how coy they were about details concerning later ages? At the time I thought it was just drip feeding info to fuel hype.

Yeah but then they played modern and a score victory triggered which surprised the devs.

 

[itix]

I've started to think that they knew the game was going to be poorly received, but despite that, that hardcore fans would initially shell out any amounts of money - so they took advantage of that, priced it ludicrously, and made bank before the negative word of mouth tanked sales.

Yeah, but werent they taking preorders like 6 months in advance?

 

[Askia Muhammad]

I've started to think that they knew the game was going to be poorly received, but despite that, that hardcore fans would initially shell out any amounts of money - so they took advantage of that, priced it ludicrously, and made bank before the negative word of mouth tanked sales.

From what we know from YT/streamers who were invited prior to the announcement - the developers believed players would recieve all of the radical changes well once they got a chance to play it.

The price of the most expensive pre-order is also standard for the super deluxe edition of other AAA games. So I don’t really believe any conspiracy regarding inflating prices to prey on blind customer loyalty or even a belief the devs thought the game wouldn’t land well.

I personally think the devs are still in a state of disbelief regarding the reception of the game and continuing decline of concurrent player numbers. The patches that have come out have certainly been excellent polishing jobs, both smoothing out and buffering blemishes and rough points of the periphery of the game but we’ve yet to see any legitimately systemic change or even statement to the many complaints regarding core systems (of which over 60% of negative reviews mention).

I also hope they didn’t pin their hopes on the VR launch to make a big splash. It’s received even more of a negative reception and many reviews downright claim it’s barely playable.

 

[Xur]

From what we know from YT/streamers who were invited prior to the announcement - the developers believed players would recieve all of the radical changes well once they got a chance to play it.

The price of the most expensive pre-order is also standard for the super deluxe edition of other AAA games. So I don’t really believe any conspiracy regarding inflating prices to prey on blind customer loyalty or even a belief the devs thought the game wouldn’t land well.

I personally think the devs are still in a state of disbelief regarding the reception of the game and continuing decline of concurrent player numbers. The patches that have come out have certainly been excellent polishing jobs, both smoothing out and buffering blemishes and rough points of the periphery of the game but we’ve yet to see any legitimately systemic change or even statement to the many complaints regarding core systems (of which over 60% of negative reviews mention).

I also hope they didn’t pin their hopes on the VR launch to make a big splash. It’s received even more of a negative reception and many reviews downright claim it’s barely playable.

I agree with you to some extent, but I can't ignore all the feedback and lessons from Humankind. That's 5 years of clear community input they completely ignored. I genuinely believe they could have reworked the civ-swapping and era change mechanics in that time. Some people claim they couldn't, but even if we assume that's true, they should have at least acknowledged the issue and prepared for a potentially bad reception or a fix in the form of a classic mode (keep the same civ). They did nothing.

What worries me is the lack of internal pushback or awareness. It feels like they keep making the games smaller and simpler. Maybe it's 2K, maybe it's Sid Meier or maybe it's Ed Beach. For me personally I can say that 2K and Sid Meier has previously made civ games I like - and Ed has not. There's certainly talent at Firaxis, but they have a hard time listening to feedback or looking at other games.

At least they should have known that it would be a problem.

 

[Krikkit1]

I agree with you to some extent, but I can't ignore all the feedback and lessons from Humankind. That's 5 years of clear community input they completely ignored. I genuinely believe they could have reworked the civ-swapping and era change mechanics in that time. Some people claim they couldn't, but even if we assume that's true, they should have at least acknowledged the issue and prepared for a potentially bad reception or a fix in the form of a classic mode (keep the same civ). They did nothing.

What worries me is the lack of internal pushback or awareness. It feels like they keep making the games smaller and simpler. Maybe it's 2K, maybe it's Sid Meier or maybe it's Ed Beach. For me personally I can say that 2K and Sid Meier has previously made civ games I like - and Ed has not. There's certainly talent at Firaxis, but they have a hard time listening to feedback or looking at other games.

At least they should have known that it would be a problem.

I don't think they could have had a true "classic mode", but they could have done a lot of things to smooth the transitions and allow the player to have a more continuous identity as a civ, even if the game mechanics were the same. Extra narrative/UI elements could have helped a lot.

 

[Skojardu]

What worries me is the lack of internal pushback or awareness.

I haven't bought the game (yet) since I am between serious jobs and money is worth more than a gamble on a 50% rated game. I want things to trend up before I consider buying.

What I want from 2K is CONTRITION. I'm not sure, but the mismatch between the chipper Puddington ad and the ferment here and on Reddit and the downvotes on Steam likely drew ire from people who want to see Ed and co proverbially with their tails between their legs.

 

[Core Imposter]

I haven't bought the game (yet) since I am between serious jobs and money is worth more than a gamble on a 50% rated game. I want things to trend up before I consider buying.

What I want from 2K is CONTRITION. I'm not sure, but the mismatch between the chipper Puddington ad and the ferment here and on Reddit and the downvotes on Steam likely drew ire from people who want to see Ed and co proverbially with their tails between theiIf you r legs.

If you have seen the Puddington trailer you should know that they are actively trolling us.