How Many College Athletes Can't Read Beyond A Grade School Level?

Are you sure it isn't accurate that Craig James killed five hookers while at SMU? Because I heard that Craig James killed five hookers at SMU, but if it's not true that Craig James killed five hookers while at SMU, I will stop bringing up the possibility that Craig James killed five hookers while at SMU.
 
Downtown - It was SUNY Binghamton. More schools, including several of the NY state universities, have jumped from III to I. It is a shame - they aren't making money on it, they aren't getting more qualified students (they don't need more applicants as it is). I am not sure why it is being done, either because they see a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, or egos overwhelm sanity.
 
Sadly, collegiate athletics does bring a lot of undeserved prestige to some universities.

SUNY Binghampton is an excellent example of a quite decent university which has little recognition outside the immediate area except in a few fields.
 
Are you sure it isn't accurate that Craig James killed five hookers while at SMU? Because I heard that Craig James killed five hookers at SMU, but if it's not true that Craig James killed five hookers while at SMU, I will stop bringing up the possibility that Craig James killed five hookers while at SMU.
I'm not sure if the investigation ever conclusively proved that Craig James didn't kill five hookers while at SMU. It's still worth mentioning there is the strong possibility that Craig James did kill five hookers while at SMU
Downtown - It was SUNY Binghamton. More schools, including several of the NY state universities, have jumped from III to I. It is a shame - they aren't making money on it, they aren't getting more qualified students (they don't need more applicants as it is). I am not sure why it is being done, either because they see a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, or egos overwhelm sanity.

So that's an interesting case study, since Binghamton actually DID cut a lot of academic corners (among other things) in the name of basketball glory. It was one of the more famous basketball scandals from a few years ago:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binghamton_University_basketball_scandal

Sounded like Binghamton hired a very crappy AD and a pretty shady basketball coach. The risks that were taken far outweighed the potential benefits, and even though the school had one great basketball season (an NCAA tourney berth that I'm sure created a bigger marketing boon than anything else the uni could have done), the APR sanctions have crippled the team, and the negative publicity after player violence easily undid the good the team did in 2008-2009.

Even a crooked coach/AD should understand the risks/rewards of the APR. That's another very sad example.

The relationship, btw, between athletic success in football/basketball and quality of freshman applications has been proved in multiple studies though. I bet the freshman class after the 2008-2009 season was more accomplished and geographically diverse than their previous several. That's why lots of colleges try to make the jump. Forget the money, you can't buy that kind of pub.

FWIW, the only reason I've ever heard of the school is bc I write about college sports for a living.
 
The relationship, btw, between athletic success in football/basketball and quality of freshman applications has been proved in multiple studies though. I bet the freshman class after the 2008-2009 season was more accomplished and geographically diverse than their previous several. That's why lots of colleges try to make the jump. Forget the money, you can't buy that kind of pub.

Applicant quality is a zero-sum game though.
 
Then non-D1 schools stand to potentially lose on some smart kids. They better find ways to innovate to overcome that marketing advantage.
 
While the speculation remains on whether Craig James killed five hookers while at SMU, I can attest that a decade or so later, the hooker population in the SMU vicinity had been restored to adequate quantities. Some could even role play beyond the 4th grade level.
 
Some could even role play beyond the 4th grade level.

As a lawyer I bet you hope no one ever discovers these kind of personal testimonies :lol:
 
If they weren't almost all "A" students how could they have gotten in?
 
may actually perform at a HIGHER academic level than their general student population peers, given the relative higher income status of those athletes

This is a shocking notion that athletes are outperforming non athletes in academics.
Or is this something in Republican states where everyone is reading and writing below 4th grade standards ? (i.e G.W.Bush would be a prime example)
 
This is a shocking notion that athletes are outperforming non athletes in academics.
Or is this something in Republican states where everyone is reading and writing below 4th grade standards ? (i.e G.W.Bush would be a prime example)
Or maybe being athletic doesn't automatically make you an idiot?
 
This is a shocking notion that athletes are outperforming non athletes in academics.
Or is this something in Republican states where everyone is reading and writing below 4th grade standards ? (i.e G.W.Bush would be a prime example)

No, it's about demographics.

There are very few poor kids who are golfing, or playing tennis, or swimming at a high enough level to earn a D1 scholarship. Training for those sports is expensive. It wouldn't be a shock that that population may perform better at certain schools, since they are drawing from a different population than the rest of the student body.
 
Downtown - that's my point exactly. It was, and is, a great academic school. It already had more than enough qualfied applicants. Frankly, when I was there is the '80s, it had a great Div III athletic environment. Then some joke decided - "Hey, what we need is Division I basketball". It did not help the school as far as money, or (as you pointed out) reputation-wise.

For the most part, Division I athletics are a farce. They used to talk about Bobby Knight, and how great it was that a decent number of his scholarship students got a degree. Pardon me, but why is it big news when someone going to college gets a degree? That's like congratulating someone for finishing their dinner - I mean, not everyone does it, but it is the general idea of why you start.
 
Then non-D1 schools stand to potentially lose on some smart kids. They better find ways to innovate to overcome that marketing advantage.
Out of the top 10 colleges in the US according to this particular review, only two even participate in Division 1. And one of them had a very marginal football team until this year.

Downtown - that's my point exactly. It was, and is, a great academic school. It already had more than enough qualfied applicants. Frankly, when I was there is the '80s, it had a great Div III athletic environment. Then some joke decided - "Hey, what we need is Division I basketball". It did not help the school as far as money, or (as you pointed out) reputation-wise.

For the most part, Division I athletics are a farce. They used to talk about Bobby Knight, and how great it was that a decent number of his scholarship students got a degree. Pardon me, but why is it big news when someone going to college gets a degree? That's like congratulating someone for finishing their dinner - I mean, not everyone does it, but it is the general idea of why you start.
You aren't going to convince a college sports writer who graduated from OSU that SUNY Binghhampton is in any way a quite similar college to his own, and is likely even better academically in some fields. After all, he didn't even know about it until they tried Division I basketball.

And I completely agree that big time college athletics is a farce which does a great disservice to the institution it is ostensibly aiding. The supporters invariably trot out athletes who deserve to be in college in the first place as a rationalization for those who clearly do not belong there, particularly those who are on the football and basketball teams.

It used to be quite obvious in post-game football interviews when the talking heads tried to interview the top athletes, and many of them couldn't form complete sentences. But now there seems to be a tacit agreement that the articulate ones are picked to speak on TV for the most part. I guess that communications major that so many of them pick for some odd reason is doing some good after all.
 
Out of the top 10 colleges in the US according to this particular review, only two even participate in Division 1. And one of them had a very marginal football team until this year.
No, you're wrong. The only ones who don't participate in D1 are Chicago, MIT and Cal Tech. The Ivy League is a D1 athletic conference, they just aren't FBS.

You aren't going to convince a college sports writer who graduated from OSU that SUNY Binghhampton is in any way a quite similar college to his own, and is likely even better academically in some fields. After all, he didn't even know about it until they tried Division I basketball.
Wait, when did I say that I didn't think Binghampton wasn't a good school? I never said that. Only that I hadn't heard of it.
 
My point is not that the schools are similar in terms of scope. My point is that once colleges make athletics a priority, it is to the detriment of academics.

College tradition is great - college sports are great (I played soccer for the school for two years). But the point of college is to educate. Color me naive, but that is my opinion. If college sports never saw the light of TV again, I would not be disappointed, and probably would be more interested in watching/following it, both in terms of my alma mater and local schools where I now live.
 
Out of the top 10 colleges in the US according to this particular review, only two even participate in Division 1. And one of them had a very marginal football team until this year.
You're kidding yourself if you think Duke's basketball tradition doesn't attract any applicants. The Ivy League essentially started college football. Stanford has been a top-5 college football team the last few years. And besides, top-tier private schools like the ones you listed don't have to rely on football teams to drive donations and applicants, because they are already so academically well-respected that they get way more applicants than they could possibly accept (and plenty of money, to boot). I'd bet a lot of the students applying to MIT or Cal Tech don't really care about sports, and Ivy League schools have been around for so long and have been so well-funded that, again, they don't need a boost from athletics for money or applicants.

On the other hand, look at the top public universities in the nation, and notice how many of them have strong athletic traditions (a good amount). For example, UT Austin has arguably the strongest athletic program in the country, and they're top 5 or top 10 among all universities, private or public, in plenty of categories, beating the ten schools you listed in a number of categories. UNC Chapel Hill and UCLA have a long history of basketball excellence, and they're excellent academic institutions. Recent scandal aside, how long was Penn State a football power under Joe Paterno? And so on.

And I completely agree that big time college athletics is a farce which does a great disservice to the institution it is ostensibly aiding.
Why, exactly? Why is it an inherently bad thing for those with athletic ability to gain an opportunity to receive an education, when they otherwise would likely not have that opportunity? Big time college athletics drive alumni donations, increase the number of applicants to the school, provide funding for other athletic sports, provide better education opportunities for some who would otherwise have settle for something much less, increase student happiness and contentment, and so on, and that's not even mentioning the fact that some schools make a profit from athletics, which can be used to improve the institution in other ways.

Why is it "a farce which does a great disservice to the institution"? Because it annoys you that instead of being smart and not-so-athletic, some people are not-so-smart and athletic? Because you think they aren't as deserving of an education as you are?

And even if a lot of athletes don't fully utilize the academic opportunity they're being given, some do! There are football players in my engineering and computer science classes, and they seem to be doing just fine.

So you're going to need to do more for your argument. And despite the unfortunately low reading levels of UNC athletes, it's still a very well-respected school academically. It still has a smart and qualified student base. It's still a great value for in-state students. It's still a great school. And as downtown already pointed out, there are plenty of schools with respectable football and basketball teams that still graduate their players and maintain strong academics. Hell, two of the schools in your list are perennial top-5 teams in football (Stanford) or basketball (Duke).

So you need to do more to back your assertion that "big time college athletics is a farce which does a great disservice to the institution it is ostensibly aiding." The poor academic performance of athletes at one school does not implicate all of college athletics as a disservice.

Cheating to keep athletes academically eligible is deplorable, no doubt. We should be focusing on legitimately getting those struggling athletes up to par academically, rather than casually dismissing college athletics and athletes as trash.
 
No, you're wrong. The only ones who don't participate in D1 are Chicago, MIT and Cal Tech. The Ivy League is a D1 athletic conference, they just aren't FBS.
Well, they certainly don't belong there since they only play other similar colleges with sports programs that aren't in any way comparable to the leading schools.

Wait, when did I say that I didn't think Binghampton wasn't a good school? I never said that. Only that I hadn't heard of it.
You certainly implied it by them supposedly not being able to attract as many "smart students". That other colleges are at a "marketing advantage" merely because they spend millions more in football and basketball.

This may come as a shock to you, but many students simply do not care much at all about big time college sports. There are 2,774 four year colleges in the US and only a tiny fraction of them have semi-pro football and basketball teams.

You're kidding yourself if you think Duke's basketball tradition doesn't attract any applicants.
You are "kidding yourself" if you actually think I stated or implied anything of the sort. :crazyeye:

Why, exactly? Why is it an inherently bad thing for those with athletic ability to gain an opportunity to receive an education, when they otherwise would likely not have that opportunity?
There are far better ways of getting worthy applicants who are financially disadvantaged a proper college education than ruthlessly exploiting them for 4 or 5 years under the pretense of possibly getting degrees, and which many of them apparently do not deserve. Those who are marginal academically, due largely to receiving inadequate public school educations, should be using their time to learn, instead of spending endless hours playing a sport for the entertainment of others.
 
downtown - I don't think non D1 schools lose out on getting the smarter applicants. While I am sure some pick schools based upon who they might want to root for, I would think just about all the top students pick their college based upon:

1. Does it offer a program/education I want;
2. Can I get in;
3. Can I afford it.

For the most part, students become fans of the school where they attend. When I went there, Binghamton was DIII. The students packed the gym for our basketball games. When students to go UCONN, for example, they go to their games, because it is their school.

I fail to see how a big athletic program helps bring in more of top students. In some cases, it does bring in substantial money, but in some it does not.

Moreover:

1. Assets that would go to help the student body instead go to the atheletes, few of whom care about an education.
2. The vast minority of great high school players ever get to play college sports. A vast minority of those who get D1 scholarships ever make any money in pro ball, and very few get diplomas - they spend their youth not getting an education, and then get spit out into the real world with no job skills. In the name of college sports, we are taking advantage of people who might otherwise have a chance to get a real education.
 
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