How to change a conservative's mind?

[Phlegmak]

In response to the OP, I guess the question is why do you want to change a conservative's mind, anyway?

Because reading stuff like "Bush stopped terrorism" is enough to drive a sane man crazy. It's better if my countrymen live in reality, rather than fantasy land.

 

[Phlegmak]

Hmm, a link to my thread, but you won't mention names. I wonder who you could be talking about

So seriously, how do you change a conservatives mind? Show some facts without a vast liberal spin, and you'll find that conservatives will very willingly listen to your argument and maybe accept your position.

I'm sure many of us have gone through the stage where we learn that a whale is not a fsh. Well, how do we learn that? Through facts that don't have liberal spin to it.

BTW, this thread will probably be closed if the sexual comments continue

Hold on, if you consider facts that have "liberal spin" (whatever that is), not worth your time, then what facts are worth your time? Facts that support your viewpoint? Are facts that don't support your viewpoint just liberal spin? What on Earth does that mean? Tell me, of these facts, which ones have a liberal spin:
1. Bush's policies have lead to an increase in terrorism.
2. Local, state, and federal governments failed miserably during the Katrina disaster.
3. Iraq is in worse shape now than before the war.
4. Bush's appointee, Michael Brown, is incompetent, and has no qualifications to be head of FEMA.
5. The federal spending during the Bush administration is the highest of all time, in any US presidency.

All of the above are true, so which ones can safely be disregarded because they're just liberal spin?

You do realize that if you disregard facts just because you think they're "liberal spin", it means ... it means you're amazingly close minded.

I'm trying hard to not speak for you. I'd rather hear what you have to say. But it looks like you're just saying that your viewpoint is impregnable because anything you don't like can just be labeled "liberal spin."

 

[Phlegmak]

First, find the mind.
Then, change it.

That reminds me of some instructions I saw on Microsoft's "knowledge" base. The solution to some problem was to repartition your hard drive then reformat it. The steps to accomplish that were:

1. Repartition your hard drive.
2. Reformat your hard drive.

 

[El Justo]

Originally Posted by Red Stranger
...how do you change a conservatives mind? Show some facts without a vast liberal spin, and you'll find that conservatives will very willingly listen to your argument and maybe accept your position.

precisely...well put Red Stranger.

i have corresponded privately w/ a forum member here who is a straight forward liberal (and someone who i'd consider an online friend to boot - you know who you are ). i won't mention names b/c that doesn't matter. what does matter is that he and i exchanged a few rounds of very friendly and cordial arguments. and when all was said and done, we agreed on 2 things:
1.) that we respected one another's opinions and
2.) we agree to disagree

now, he and i are fundamentally opposed as far as our political beliefs are concerned. however, we have been able to overlook these things and engage in meaningful discussions w/out resorting to childinsh antics.

many, many people on these forums fail to adhere to these very basic principles and instead seem to hide behind the facade of the internet and lob one grenade after another. it's pathetic really...

my point is that it is all in the delivery and tone of one's message that is most improtant (at least imo). considering this, as a Republican, i would be 'all ears' if a 'liberal' broached a particular political hot-button issue to me so long as they did so in a manner which is cordial and not some bombastic rant like is so often seen here in the OT forums. it's a shame actually...

 

[The Yankee]

People are treated equally under the law. Do you want a class based solely upon sexual preference to have the same specific protections as we give race/creed/color/gender in this country? And under equal protection do you truly think the buck will stop there? I dont.

Yes, we know, they both have the right to go into an unhappy, heterosexual marriage, so on, whatever argument that comes up in that vein.

But how are the treated equally if you just said they don't have the same protections as others?

Anyway, this is another topic for another thread.

As for Red Stranger, I wonder what might be something you'd accept without a "liberal spin." Especially if the facts might point to a more centrist or liberal answer. I'm rather curious, since it seems you often have the same exact words that top conservatives say.

 

[The Yankee]

my point is that it is all in the delivery and tone of one's message that is most improtant (at least imo). considering this, as a Republican, i would be 'all ears' if a 'liberal' broached a particular political hot-button issue to me so long as they did so in a manner which is cordial and not some bombastic rant like is so often seen here in the OT forums. it's a shame actually...

It might be the result of the whole "talking points" phenomanon that is currently in place. Where you get your arguments from the top precooked and microwavable without having to do the preparation yourself.

 

[BasketCase]

If we wish to avoid becoming the kind of world described in George Orwell's 1984, we need to avoid trying to control other peoples' thoughts. Freedom of thought means people must be free to form their own opinions--and to have the "wrong" opinions.

So my answer to the OP is that people shouldn't be screwing around with other peoples' minds. Voice your opinion, by all means, and if you think somebody is wrong, feel free to say why. And stop there.

When I was going to college, the students on the campus were evenly divided between liberal and conservative. A whole lot of smart people, who did not all have the same opinions.

Capiche?

 

[EdwardTking]

Conservatives are often turned on by money and power.

Explain to them that why if they persist in their course, they will
lose money/power. At that point, they often become more pragmatic.

 

[Abaddon]

Blind faith holds billions in rapture to a unproven God, why not a conservative?

 

[Rambuchan]

Regarding "the vast liberal spin": How exactly does this manifest itself in the alleged 'liberal domination of the mainstream media'? The vast majority of news media outlets, the organs to change someone's mind, are controlled by corporations that support a thoroughly conservative agenda. So what is this 'liberal media' that everyone keeps going on about?

First, find the mind.
Then, change it.

I remember in some Woody Allen movie, the main character was worried because his previously intelligent son had started to develop right wing tendencies.

But there was a happy ending.
They discovered pressure on an artery was restricting the blood supply to the son's brain.
Quick medical procedure..
.. and oxygen and intelligence were restored.

Gotta love Woody Allen, great gag.

 

[Whomp]

I'm a Reagan republican and have voted for a republican since 1980 and I vote my pocketbook and industry. Just being honest.
I'm marrying a Columbia educated limosine liberal so life can be interesting at my house at times. I think we're both more conscious of each other's views and mostly agree to disagree.

G.Dub has me disillusioned as a conservative. He has made many, many mistakes including spending like a democrat (1st president since Jefferson to not veto a bill), his handling of Katrina lacked leadership and catering to the cultural right bothers me. I have voted democrat on a local level since I don't have much choice living in Chicago. I like Mayor Daley since he's a no B.S. guy with character and charisma. He has stated the problems he sees with the national democrats. I also voted for Obama because Keyes was a nutjob.

I like some of Joe Biden's ideas so far (like creating one Iraq with three regions seems to make sense to curtail the sectarian violence).

I would consider him in the next election but would need to learn more about whether he will cater to my right leaning tendencies. He, along with John McCain, have my attention. I'd be interested to hear what people on both sides of the aisle have to say about this.

 

[El_Machinae]

Not true. I myself had been an strict opponent of gay marriage up until recently and it was several debates on this issue, here, that changed my mind about it.

And I changed my mind about pot criminalization, which used to be a similarly conservative viewpoint (though not libertarian, but authoritative)

 

[Perfection]

 

[El_Machinae]

Right ... now we have to worry about Thesseus's ship ....

 

[Fifty]

I used to be fairly conservative. Now I'm pretty much convinced that republicans are wrong, but I'm still not convinced that democrats are right. I don't believe in "lesser of two evils" either, so I'm a nonvoter for now.

 

[El_Machinae]

Slacker!

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Not to derail the conversation, but regarding gay marriage:

Nowhere is gay marriage actually prohibited. That is, there are absolutely no laws anywhere that prevent homosexual same-gender couples from having a wedding, be it in a church, their backyard, or anywhere, and considering themselves a married couple. Marriage is primarily a social institution, and there are no laws prohibiting a social gay marriage. The problem is that although it is not prohibited, such a marriage receives none of the official recognition from the government and few of the benefits of a different-gender marriage.

That is the real issue: not "legalizing" same-sex marriage but granting official recognition of it. The only form of marriage that is prohibited - that actually results in efforts to stop it - is polygamy.

 

[Inqvisitor]

No.

Considering that gays are prohibited from marrying in most places, it would seem painfully obvious that you are wrong.

So when a man goes to marry his girlfriend, there will be a background check to make sure there were never any homosexual relationships in their past...?
The 'gay' could even openly continue his homosexual activity after the wedding and I don't think the government is going to show up to block him from marriage.

 

[Bill3000]

Nowhere is gay marriage actually prohibited. That is, there are absolutely no laws anywhere that prevent homosexual same-gender couples from having a wedding, be it in a church, their backyard, or anywhere, and considering themselves a married couple. Marriage is primarily a social institution, and there are no laws prohibiting a social gay marriage. The problem is that although it is not prohibited, such a marriage receives none of the official recognition from the government and few of the benefits of a different-gender marriage.

Wait, didn't some states define marriage to be between a man and a woman last election?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Wait, didn't some states define marriage to be between a man and a woman last election?

Maybe, but if a homosexual couple considers their relationship to be a marriage, they won't get arrested. Here the state isn't prohibiting gay marriage, they are saying that by definition there can be no such thing. In marriage, the social definition is in my opinion as important or more so, than the government definition.