[BTS] How to play Stalin effectively? (Monarch level training)

[Noble Zarkon]

But what would you do, when no copper is available? At some point you need to decide and delaying the second city may be no good strategy.

Agreed, nut you are 10 turns away and don't have your Settler yet (not sure how many turns you have left for it, is that something you can switch on or is ti BUG/Buffy only) . As you have Agriculture already I would be moving the Settler towards site C whilst waiting for BW.

 

[ArchGhost]

Stalin's general strengths on high difficulty are starting with ok barb defense (AGG warriors go go) and starting with the best tech, Mining, leading to rapid productive output once you square your food away.. He also starts with the worst tech in Hunting (boo, no starting warrior to worker steal!) and IND is of dubious quality depending on your start and how conducive it is for Mids or GLH. Oh yeah, I guess his Axe rushes are a bit improved too, but that's even more situational than the wonder stuff.

For Monarch, a fast path to BW alone is more than enough. The AIs will be too slow to keep up with your production with a fast BW as your 1st/2nd tech. You can choke them easy if you find them quickly with AGG warriors, they are never gonna dislodge a C1+W1 warrior in a forest with anything any time soon if you snag a quick AGG barracks or kill a couple barbs with a guy. And any wonder gambit you choose should pretty much be yours on Monarch with IND, but you need to pick one and not try to go for all of them or also fit in early conquering, do one or the other.

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

1.3. First conflicts

I decided to choke the more dangerous enemy: Augustus.

2 rounds before settler is ready and BW too I took a worker for free.
But this is risky: A human player would kill me now, cause Augustus has 4 archers (3 at home) and I have just 1 warrior.

I decided to delay settlers production until worker is ready, maybe even whipping the settler and take the overflow for next warrior.

Because we are at war now, I decide for first going into AH before Writing.

___________________

General asking:

I will play from time to time. Please let me know when u see some possible mistakes.

 

[sampsa]

This is madness!

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

After BW the situation looks like that:

There's no copper nearby, for noone. I go for AH, thenafter Writing (Writing for trade with Vicci and for the lib (=eles).
I decided for barracks before settler.

Vicci seems to want the green land in the south, she's on her way with a settler and an archer (NE of the wheat), so in some time both could go into border conflict.

For Stalin I am now quite OK in aspect of commerce because of the floodplains:

 

[soundjata]

Is this madness

@Master_Of_Ideas if Augustus builds a settler, it could be an idea to release the pressure on Rome so as to let the settler go, with an escort of possibly a couple of archers. This will leave his cap with less defenders and you can maybe warrior rush it (4 warriors / archers or something like that).
Similarly if he builds a worker, he will escort it with at least an archer I believe.

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

Some turns later:

Overall situation:
Augustus has 3 or 4 archers, but one seem to go just scouting. I have 3 warrior, building a fourth and having barracks. I have a second city.

Next goals after AH:
(0) Of course: Writing (lib = eles)
(1) North city: Connect the cows, thenafter transform the plains-hill-wood into a mine, which will finish the barracks and gives a strong tile for producing, when the cap-people are angered
(2) Capital: Whip 2 more warriors
(3) Capital: Build hut on the third floodplain and road to the eles
(4) Whip the lib
(5) Maybe settling space in the west near rice and floodplains while waiting for Writing
(6) If horses appear: Settle there and connect 'em, going into horse archers. If no horses appear: Going into IW.

I stop for now to take feedback.

 

[sampsa]

I don't understand much of what's going on, but I wouldn't whip warriors. Is there any way of getting out of the war? I think worker stealing was totally unnecessary, you were doing fine before that, now it's hard to say (mostly because I don't know what to expect from K-mod AI though).

You should keep your -slider at 0% or 100% at all times.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I don't understand much of what's going on, but I wouldn't whip warriors. Is there any way of getting out of the war? I think worker stealing was totally unnecessary,

In the base game worker stealing is fine but given how agressive the AI is in K-Mod I'm not sure it was a great idea. What's the rationale for whipping warriors?

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

I don't understand much of what's going on, but I wouldn't whip warriors. Is there any way of getting out of the war? I think worker stealing was totally unnecessary, you were doing fine before that, now it's hard to say (mostly because I don't know what to expect from K-mod AI though).

It seems that the AI is not that aggressive, that it will come with archers to attack.
And yes, Augustus would end the war.

You should keep your -slider at 0% or 100% at all times.

Normally I do that. This time it was the only possibility to geh AH in 2 turns. When I had 0-100-100, it would be 3 turns. And AH ist too important to delay at this point.

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

In the base game worker stealing is fine but given how agressive the AI is in K-Mod I'm not sure it was a great idea. What's the rationale for whipping warriors?

Nothing to build. I have 5 pop, working 3 floodplains, 1 corn, 1 hilled wood/spices. When I whip and wait the 10 turns, I get more from it instead of losing the food. It's so plenty of food that I can whip just for fun and I do warriors then.

You have better ideas what to whip? I want to get to 5 pop again in ~10 turns to whip the lib. Maybe better a worker instead of 2 quick warriors?

General question: In the above case, would you build 100% military to finish Augustus ASAP or 50% military, 50% worker/settler?

Cause maybe 2 warriors are not that great in relation to horse archers, but they help to stay upper hand. In 10 turns I could whip 1x, regain and get in sum ~90 hammers., but without whip just maybe ~80 hammers. Would you whip even the weak mili?

 

[sampsa]

Normally I do that. This time it was the only possibility to geh AH in 2 turns. When I had 0-100-100, it would be 3 turns. And AH ist too important to delay at this point.

In that case you should not go 80-80 but 60-100. The aim is to minimize the time your slider is in non-0/100 position.

Nothing to build. I have 5 pop, working 3 floodplains, 1 corn, 1 hilled wood/spices. When I whip and wait the 10 turns, I get more from it instead of losing the food. It's so plenty of food that I can whip just for fun and I do warriors then.

This makes no sense. If you are not building a settler or something useful, it's better to just keep growing, even into unhappiness. Then whip the library when you get the tech. Unhappy pop are not a bad thing, because they are just as valuable as happy pop when whipped.

General question: In the above case, would you build 100% military to finish Augustus ASAP or 50% military, 50% worker/settler?

How are you finishing Augustus asap? I'd get out of the war, if possible, expand and re-declare when you have access to decent units (HA or catapult).

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

In that case you should not go 80-80 but 60-100. The aim is to minimize the time your slider is in non-0/100 position.

Good point, thanks!

This makes no sense. If you are not building a settler or something useful, it's better to just keep growing, even into unhappiness. Then whip the library when you get the tech. Unhappy pop are not a bad thing, because they are just as valuable as happy pop when whipped.

Mh. I don't feel good recognizing I have unused unhappy people, who just lower my food income. Actually 2 food is minimum 2 hammers and when I whip with start of lib, i need 11 turns, meaning 22 hammers lost just for another guy. Additionally I lose 10 hammers for not whipping. In result I lose 30 hammers (=2 warriors) for one additional guy. When I take him, I instead get 3-4 turns more commerce. All in all it would be cost of ~30 hammers against 15 commerce and/or maybe 10 hammers.

When I look at my actual "army" of 3 warriors, 2 additional warriors are great, e.g. for taking the next space or try to get look into other areas of him.

How are you finishing Augustus asap? I'd get out of the war, if possible, expand and re-declare when you have access to decent units (HA or catapult).

Well, you are right, 2 more warriors won't finish him sooner. But the war doesn't cost me anything. Even the guy on the hill costs no support. But there are important gains:

1. Augustus cannot improve his floodplains, this way he has lower chances of getting iron working, which could delay the conquering seriously.
2. I see Augustus capital
3. He cannot easily settle on my position C, where I want to settle the third city soon. He needs more effort to do this, even additionally when I have a bunch of warriors to protect it.

 

[Fippy]

Whipping warriors just makes future unhappy problems worse? 10 more turns each.
That logic really escapes me, you are not improving your situation at all.

"Avoid unhappy citizens whenever possible" might be the worst advice that randomly pops up
(Sampsa already wrote why)

I would just forget about both, whipping something really small and "fearing" an unhappy guy.
Sure not being unhappy is better, but changing plans drastically cos of it makes little sense.
(removing great tiles would be another example of what not to do)

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

1.4. Rising power of horses

2 turns later AH is reaerched. And it was a great decision:

Of course we will improve the horses first. This way it seems that there are enough hammer tiles that we can whip EVERY 10 turns size 5 -> 4. When at 4, we work hut.floodplains, horses and spices (or mine later), and when countdown goes down, we work corn and floodplains. When corn is not worked, north city will work it. I will build-whip 1 warrior and thenafter go for the granary.

Research path is clear:
Writing -> Archery -> HBR

Research slider is 50% now to get Writing ASAP in 7 turns, open trade routes with Vicci (+2 free commerce), and start lib ASAP.
I saw the wooden hill at Augustus 44%-45% but the elephants 43%-46%. Maybe Vicci has some culture?

In 2360 BC no religion is founded yet (5 AIs). Would you try to get HBR by oracle? ;-)

Military plan:

The marked guy with take the wood "aim" to foresee the cows and the horses of Augustus. I saw Augustus using his 3 people at the floodplains and the eles visible. So maybe Augustus hasn't AH yet? Then this guy will cripple his development. He is specialized archer killer.

The next warrior will secure the western area, securing when he can.Because he is whipped, he is 3 turns earlier there

Feedback? I don't see a better alternative. Just overgrow people gives me nothing.

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

I would just forget about both, whipping something really small and "fearing" an unhappy guy.
Sure not being unhappy is better, but changing plans drastically cos of it makes little sense.
(removing great tiles would be another example of what not to do)

Generally I would accept, but in this case the maths say, I get more hammers with whipping.
What would you think about whipping warrior and using the overflow for granary?

 

[Fippy]

I really cannot find any reason for warrior whips (unless you need them or the city falls)
Whip a granary or settler, something good.
Give corn to your new city and slow down growth if it's too much, tile sharing is awesome.

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

Ahhhh.... even better: Look at the great math:

- Let slider at 100%, get Writing and the 2 trade routes 1 turn earlier
- Whip the warrior (getting 36/15), makes 14 overflow gold
- Start granary with +15 hammers, it will finish right before next popgain
- Warrior can secure the west 2 turns earlier

That seems optimal!

Thinking about this I think I will recognize the option to whip warriors more often. It's cost-efficient and it gives additionally some overflow gold to research faster. Even better I should think about chopping and whipping the warrior for research...

Sorry, but I really don't see why this should not be thought about.

 

[Fippy]

Well i won't change my opinion on this, if you have a granary whip & corn sharing option why should there be too much ?
That urges you to whip something so small.
Granary will be of great use later, and allows you even more to make your 2nd city stronger by borrowing corn as you like.

 

[Master_Of_Ideas]

I give my savefile here (it's a pity, it's just with K-Mod).
Given that with your assistance and advice the next turns will be on strong niveau, we could play it out and simulate.

Generally I would give the rule of thumb for myself:
Whipping a warrior can be thought about, when

(1) We need him (check) or we could use the overflow gold (check)
(2) We have no better possibilities (e.g. not enough tiles to work) (check)
(3) We can regrow in 10 turns (check)
(4) We get more hammers from food instead of hammer tiles (check)
(5) We don't need to whip again in <10 turns (not check, only point)

Point (4) I remembered your guide, I read yesterday again. Thanks @Fippy.