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How War Weariness Works - WIP

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Victoria, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    This post updated 16th Oct with the latest findings
    There is a helpful war weariness log in the log directory (My documents/my games/civillization VI/logs)

    When does it happen?
    War weariness values get updated for a civ based on each combat they partake in against another major civ or when nukes are involved. It includes city combat but not pillaging/raiding nor war declarations. It does not change with difficulty or level unit type but does increase with Era and whether a war is a surprise or not. It also gets reduced by the Casus Belli %

    Where does it happen?
    War Weariness is calculated in the target location, even for ranged.

    How do I get -1 war weariness and in which city?
    For every 400 war weariness points (WWP) you currently have you gain -1 war weariness (WW) which is a form of happiness requiring more amenities to combat. This appears to be spread over cities based on proximity to battle, whether you founded the city and the population of the city. I Also have seen some indication there may be a link to the city that created a unit killed in battle but nothing firm in this area.
    If your turn finishes with you having less WWP than 400 then the -1 is gone next turn.

    How do I accumulate WWP?
    For each combat you gain WWP. It does not matter whether you attack or defend. This Is based on the following factors.

    Era Base
    You get a base WWP per combat for the era you are in and if it is a surprise war or not.
    The formula for this is
    Formal war
    Era Base = 16 + (min(era number -1,4) * 6) * Casus Belli %
    Surprise war
    Era Base = (16 + (min(era number -1,4) * 6)) + (3 * (min(era number -1,4)))

    Location
    You get a multiplier depending on location. The target location is always the location, including for ranged units.
    x1 is within your borders, even a newly taken city
    x2 if anywhere else including enemy territory
    x2 if you are a city giving or recieving an attack
    For an example click HERE

    Unit Death
    You get additional WWP in a combat if your unit dies
    This is 3 x Era Base

    Formula & Table
    So the formula is WWP = (Era Base * Location) + Unit Death
    upload_2017-10-16_9-21-58.png

    Note: If you fight a Casus Belli with a reduced % the Formal WW will be reduced by this %. Your enemies will suffer surprise WW (which seems wrong)
    If you fight 2 different civs, you will get different war weariness values if one was a surprise war


    How do I lose WWP?
    When at war you loose 50 WWP per turn
    When at peace with everyone you loose 200 WWP per turn
    When you make peace you loose 2000 WWP
    If you also make peace with a city state you loose an additional 2000 WWP
    Make peace with a civ that has 4 CS allies and you get -10,000 WWP :)

    A visual example of an archer rush
    Note WWP degrade 50 per turn so turns of no attack cause loss.
    It shows that while at times I had up to 3 WW it did not last long
    It also shows that deaths are generally not an issue, it is when there are large number of attacks in a turn WWP ramp up fast.

    upload_2017-10-10_14-39-31.png

    Rome had already been to war before me so by the end of the battle they were suffering more WWP for city attacks.

    Nukes please?
    Letting off a Nuke gives a fighting abroad penalty + 10 * base for the nuke so an information age city nuke gives (2 * 52) + (10 * 52) = 624 WWP. The same as 6 combats abroad.
    Nuking troops seems to be ignored completely for both sides - no WWP.
    The WWP gained from nuking cities seems not to be applied to cities which I would say is a bug. I will test more.

    War Weariness Not going down?
    There are various bugs that can cause this in particular when the AI thinks you are still at war and you are not but it must be combined with some rogues unit attacks. If you think its not going down then look in the war weariness log for symptoms of high numbers. Feel free to contact me with a save if it has no mods, I cannot fix them though.

    Current strange behaviours and uses
    • If I declare war with Civ B and in the same turn then make peace with civ A for that turn I get both war and peace decays for -250 WWP.
    • WWP gained from nukes does not seem to be applied to your cities.
    • By continuously declaring and making peace with a CS you can reduce your WWP by 4000 every 20 turns. This is also possible with more than one city state. Naturally you gain warmongering points for this unless they were allies of a Civ you declared on.
    • If you are currently at war with someone but could benefit from a 10 turn break for the gold, you war weariness loss for making peace for 10 turns will be -4000 WWP with an additional -2000 if not fighting someone else. For just not fighting for 10 turns it is just -500.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  2. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Testing tonight I have seen a base WWP of 43 and weirdly one at 22 So far bases of 16,22,25,32,34 and 43 so thourough testing needed of when who doing what. Turn by turn zzzzz
     
  3. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Archer location
    From the below we have my archers shooting 2 Egyptian ones, combat A and B
    The log shows that it is the target location that counts so while my archer A is standing inside my own territory, they are shooting out so suffer foreign territory WWP
    upload_2017-10-12_11-1-43.png

    The log shows my WWP on lines 1 and 3 (I am a higher era than them)
    I declared a surprise war in the renaissance era so by base WWP is 43.
    My archer shooting out gets double the WWP of the archer shooting within my territory
    The enemy is in the ancient era but both troopsd are away from home so recieve double WWP
    upload_2017-10-12_11-6-34.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
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  4. Karpius

    Karpius Chieftain

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    @Victoria ....I must say that I thoroughly appreciate and enjoy your extensive analysis of the game mechanics. I find it fascinating and informative.

    I have to ask, what program do you open the logs with? Mine opened on Wordpad, but were poorly formatted for easy reading.

    I have a whole lot to learn about reading those logs, but it certainly adds another dimension to enjoying the game.
     
  5. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    The log files are really all csv files but some are named .log. The trick is to make sure any names .log you copy or rename to .csv. Then make sure they open with excel or another spreadsheet tool. That formats them nicely and you can sort and filter. The hardest thing is identifying each civ. you are always civ0. The best way AI have found to get the rest from the logs is to open the player_stats.csv file and that shows the civs in numerical order with you at the top as 0.
     
  6. Bee7

    Bee7 Chieftain

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    This is fascinating stuff. Does it apply to the AI? I am currently at war with Rome and have wiped out 95% of what was a karge army of theirs, so in theory they should be on their knees with war weariness.
     
  7. UWHabs

    UWHabs Chieftain

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    Increasing base: could it be based on who declares war? ie. is it a 50% bonus for being the "aggressor" in the war?

    Idea: have one city-state who you essentially be at "permanent war" with. Declare war on them, then after 10 turns, make peace for a cheap -2000 WWP. Rinse and repeat (or did they bring back the old mechanism where if you declared on a city-state more than once you were locked into a perma-war?).
     
    Victoria likes this.
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    It does apply to the AI, you can always see in the logs what number they are currently at and divide by 400.

    @UWHabs I'll check out the declarations, a lot of my later stuff was done on firetuner
    Not sure about the rinse and repeat, will check that too.
     
  9. HyJinkx

    HyJinkx Chieftain

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    Good info! I’ve noticed most of this in game but was never really sure of the exact effects. It seems a bit strange that killing a scout or tank would give the same amount of effect but it seems to. It would be nice if some units didn’t effect it as much as they do. I noticed in my last game that after I took Delhi it kept suffering far more than my other cities that were captured. Do you think that is because it was already suffering from WW from where I captured it and then continued to get worse in my next war? There was a small break between wars and it was the only city Ghandi had left because my friends in Zanzibar removed the other city for me before I could get there. I’m just curious if WW boils over or resets when you capture a city. Also to note is Delhi was on the other side of the continent from my second war but was the only city that seemed to be effected drastically. Second note is that the other cities were from my second war but it lasted for a long time due to barb intervention which I had to stop and deal with before finishing.
     
  10. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    @HyJinkx ... in the example graph above you see spike when taking cities but that's down to expending a lot of attacks fast. So taking any city has the chance of pushing up WW more... but being Ghandi you get more WW versus him. So all of ththese s concentrated WW from the latest era multiplied up by being Ghandi will mostly be applied to the 'war city'... the one you have just taken. The idea is it has a stronger chance to spawn rebels... but they also nerfed WW a bit because people complained.... anyway I hope that helps explain.

    @UWHabs yup rinse and repeat every 20 turns on a CS to keep it down, you should not get any for fighting a CS but then again, some more trials last night showed it was not the aggressor but it may be civs that have taken a CS... I forgot to play the game slow enough. It certainly happens more on deity and to those that have taken CS but still anecdotal.
     
  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    It really helps sometimes to read the online help... I mean there is bugger all info in tyhere but it is succinct
    upload_2017-10-14_14-52-50.png
    So initial tests indicate you get -3 off an era base WWP for a formal, joint or other Casus
    How this affects the other side is still odd currently so needs more checking
    AQlso online help indicate WWP are applied heavily to troops that are nuked heavily, gotta check that out
    .. an nuking in general... but will update the main thread with findings
     
  12. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Chieftain

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    So no war weariness when fighting city-states?
     
  13. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Ironically, if losing a unit gives so much weariness, it might be a good idea to simply just delete units about to die? Or random scouts and warriors wandering around that may get killed?
     
  14. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    More importantly, surprise wars give a lot more weariness, just finalising testing but the figures I posted were a little off. EDIT - Just posted them in the 1st post
    Losing a scout to barbs or city states is no problem.
    Also in wars degradation makes loss of a lone unit not so bad, it's actually using archers not swordsman to attack that gives war weariness more as we tend not to loose too many units. 6 xbow shooting in an industrial surprise war is 624 weariness. Thats over 1.5 War weariness.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
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  15. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Nuke formula identified... but it may be no WW is applied for nukes which must be a bug.
    Weirdly nuking just units does not seem to apply any WWP at all.

    Some side things noted when nuking units
    You cannot target a unit occupied tile with a nuke, the target tile must be a city or empty tile
    If there is an AA unit of a civ you are not at war with that would be affected by fallout it will attempt to stop the nuke with AA fire. Silo's and bombers beware!
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
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  16. HyJinkx

    HyJinkx Chieftain

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    That’s what I forgot about Ghandi, the added WW makes total sense now. I just knew it didn’t seem quite right compared to a lot of other games I have played. Luck of the draw has him normally located on the other continent which I rarely invade without good reason. By that point I’m just enjoying being hated by those AI for winning and polishing up my win condition. This time he just happened to be squatting in some of my territory and had to be evicted. Thanks for the reminder and keep up the good work.
     
  17. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Your opposition during a formal war also get Surprise war War Weariness which feels wrong
    Your WW is also reduced by your Casus Belli %
    Main post updated
     
  18. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

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    Very useful stuff, it's pretty weak on the devs that this is required of the civ 6 community but it's still a great contribution to the community.
     
  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Cheers, its not the first if you look at my signature and there is plenty left. I may look again at passive religious spread and exactly when district discounts kick in. I sort of got most of the way there but it got hard work. What the devs have done to help is firetuner, while buggy makes testing a damn site easier.
    Equally, anything you do not know but know you do not know and want to know... then let me know
     
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  20. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    I pretty much moved up one level just by reading Victoria's posts. True story. Most importantly, a bit about Autocracy.
     

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