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How War Weariness Works - WIP

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Victoria, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Question

    Question King

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    So after some testing i think WW is linked mainly to cities with units doing the fighting. This explains why I often see one or two cities with massive WW when all other cities....even the ones that are nearer to the fighting....are perfectly fine.

    I was testing a mod where i made WW rise only when units are killed and I noticed it straight away...cities that produce the units that get killed were gaining WW, while all the other cities that didnt have any units fighting were not gaining any WW at all.

    Should really be empire wide IMHO.
     
  2. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    If you have done emperical solid testing on vanilla that would be useful and appreciated.
     
  3. Question

    Question King

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    Not on vanilla, but if you want to test it, it should be pretty easy. The WW values are in GlobalParameters.xml and you can set all of them to 0 except for the "unit killed" one which you should set it to very high values for testing. Have one city send in some easy to kill units like scouts to an enemy city, get them killed, then check the WW log and the city status report screen.

    The only city with WW issues should be the one that built the scouts.
     
  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    cheers, will look into it, slightly differently but great help, thanks... just concentrating on loyalty ATM
     
  5. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Finally found some time for a simple test with the standard settings. I wanted to test pure home cities first for clarity before adding a foreign city in.

    3 cities as specified on the diagram one size 7 and 2 size 3 with the middle one having created all the archers... all 11 archers will be fighting nearest liverpool but having been created in Birmingham and London being more than twice the size.
    The idea being I create some enemy, fire all my archers then delete the enemy... and repeat each turn as my WM increases, I can watch my cities
    upload_2018-3-31_1-19-47.png

    So here for example a few turns in
    upload_2018-3-31_1-28-48.png

    And here is the whole test with some limiting results, its like its decided to just provide 1 set of WW based on pop first and then proximity (no english troops were hurt in the making of this)
    upload_2018-3-31_2-5-45.png

    Here is the final T42 city screen
    upload_2018-3-31_2-7-42.png

    I was a bit confused so I increased liverpool to pop 7 and this was the result on T43 (ww accurate at the start of a turn) - no fighting this turn
    upload_2018-3-31_2-9-50.png

    So as its 2:10 am I up all 3 cities to pop 10 to see what it looks like and on T44 it looks like this - with 4746 WW (11.865*400) - no fighting this turn
    upload_2018-3-31_2-12-20.png

    T45 just for luck, upped to 13 pop in each ... wow - if you are going to war a lot, have small cities. WW is no problem at all.
    upload_2018-3-31_2-23-8.png

    A bit late to think more but pleased as the test does tell a lot of interesting info... feel free to jump in with your theories. To me it looks like cities can only get as many WW as amenities and it will allocate as many WW as a city has amenity requirements to the highest priority targets probably in the order of foreign, capital, closest. One suspects additional WW from deaths is then added? to the specific city the units came from.

    A reminder of the parameters, the first set are the relevant ones
    WAR_WEARINESS_POINTS_FOR_AMENITY_LOSS" Value="400"
    WAR_WEARINESS_LOSS_OVER_REQ_AMENITIES_AT_WAR_CITY" Value="3"
    WAR_WEARINESS_LOSS_OVER_REQ_AMENITIES_FOUNDED_CITY" Value="0"
    WAR_WEARINESS_LOSS_OVER_REQ_AMENITIES_NONFOUNDED_CITY" Value="1"

    WAR_WEARINESS_DECAY_TURN_AT_PEACE" Value="200"
    WAR_WEARINESS_DECAY_TURN_AT_WAR" Value="50"
    WAR_WEARINESS_PER_COMBAT_IN_ALLIED_LANDS" Value="1"
    WAR_WEARINESS_PER_COMBAT_IN_FOREIGN_LANDS" Value="2"
    WAR_WEARINESS_PER_UNIT_KILLED" Value="3"
    WAR_WEARINESS_PER_WMD_LAUNCHED" Value="10"
    WAR_WEARINESS_WARMONGER_BASE" Value="16"
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018
    liv likes this.
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I have done another test to refine inbcluding a foreign city and more becomes clear
    So same scenario as the first test but I add an extra city that I have captured off the enemy
    upload_2018-3-31_14-51-59.png

    The results show that captured sities not only get WW first irregardless of distance but they can get double the WW of home cities. This clarifies the two parameters
    WAR_WEARINESS_LOSS_OVER_REQ_AMENITIES_FOUNDED_CITY" Value="0"
    WAR_WEARINESS_LOSS_OVER_REQ_AMENITIES_NONFOUNDED_CITY" Value="1"

    upload_2018-3-31_14-52-44.png

    The final cities look like this
    upload_2018-3-31_14-54-59.png

    It chose birmingham over liverpool for allocation first possibly due to population size
    If I increase Birmingham and Liverpool to 5 to see which is decided it chooses liverpool first (1 WW lost due to degradation of WW over a turn)
    upload_2018-3-31_14-57-51.png

    So although there is not huge amounts of test data current theory is

    1. All home cities can get as much WW as the amenity cost to maintain the city
    2. All non original cities can get 4x this.
    3. The priority is foreign cities first, then the home capital then the largest city then the closest to the battle (not tested havving unit deaths yet)
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
    liv likes this.
  7. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I added loosing my own units tonight but as I had no way to set a units home city I had to rely on the first turn for some idea
    I also realised my capital city was my largest city and so was not a fair comparison so swapped around populations
    upload_2018-4-2_20-23-59.png
    So it looks like from first glance unit kills are not being sourced back to their home city.. or maybe thats a lower factor
    More importantly its purely the size of a city, not the capital that counts... will update the main thread and this thread with another test in the next hour, feels like we are just about there.
    upload_2018-4-2_20-24-30.png
     
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I have done some more testing and I see 0 evidence of a units home city taking the WW. It is quite typical a large city creates units and so that may be what you are seeing.
    The reason you are seeing only a few cities with WW is because it fills up a city before starting on another
    The reason you are not seeing those closest to the battle is because foreign cities and larger cities are a higher priority

    Feel free to disagree and we can discuss but I would like to see some evidence as I am now seeing evidence of the opposite.
     
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Just run another test... I had a pop5 city furthest from fighting, pop 4 capital in the middle and a pop 4 city closest ... My troops were all made in the closest. Combat and unit lost gave me -2 in the furthest city because it was largest
     
  10. tedhebert

    tedhebert Emperor

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  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    As per @Stringer1313 request, I am running a multiple war test and while I have enought War weariness points to have 2 WW but I only have 1, I am guessing from the highest. I'll run some more of the test after lunch
    upload_2018-4-28_12-38-51.png
    upload_2018-4-28_12-39-34.png

    EDIT: This is a little Strange... now at over 2 WW per war and only 1 WW showing in a city
    upload_2018-4-28_13-17-9.png
    upload_2018-4-28_13-18-55.png

    After another round of fighting
    upload_2018-4-28_13-23-47.png
    upload_2018-4-28_13-24-16.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I upped the violence for the next turn and captured a city to see what happened... I am at -5 WW from each war but now my cities have 6WW - so something else must be happening. Also WW of only -4 in captured city.
    upload_2018-4-28_13-29-50.png
    upload_2018-4-28_13-30-29.png

    Next Turn
    upload_2018-4-28_13-35-45.png
    upload_2018-4-28_13-36-19.png
     
  13. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Warlord

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    Just want to correct a few minor mistakes.

    Not 4x, but WAR_WEARINESS_LOSS_OVER_REQ_AMENITIES + this amout. WAR_WEARINESS_LOSS_OVER_REQ_AMENITIES = war weariness loss over requirement amenities.
    That means, at war city is 3, own city is 0, not founded is 1.

    This is also Era Base = 16 + (min(era number -1,4) * 6) * Casus Belli %, because for surprise war, Casus Belli % = 150%.
    I have to say this design is silly. Why should I be declared surprise war, and suffer a higher war weariness?:undecide:
     
    Victoria likes this.
  14. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

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    I believe WWP with CS are also computed separately (somehow from reading this I thought it was computed together).

    I (Player 8) was at war with Player 0 in a MP game and I took suzerain of a CS who was controlled by my opponent, I saw this on that turn:



    The next turn I saw this in Player_WarWeariness.csv:

    upload_2020-8-5_12-31-21.png

    So the war weariness of Player 8 from Player 0 is still at 392, although the war weariness of Player 8 from Player 18 (the city state) is reduced by 2000.

    -------------------------------

    Another question I have is, during Player 0's turn, a scouting heavy chariot of mine was killed by him in a remote place (like half an earth away), but my war weariness doesn't seem to be affected by that at all. Is there a reason of this? Like some remote killing are just ignored?
     
  15. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I think you need to upskill your log reading a touch, you are player 0.

    in answer to your other questions, things change, it’s an old thread. Bottom line from it is WW still is pretty irrelevant which is a shame.
     
    acluewithout likes this.
  16. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

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    No, as I said it's a multiplayer game, so I'm player 8. The host is player 0.

    I kinda agree but now it feel slightly more relevant if WW from CS are computed separately so they don't interfere the main WW - in a Renaissance formal war offense it's 68 WWP per attack and with 6 unit fighting I'm getting -1 per turn, which is not trivial.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020

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