How will america Fall?

[Cheezy the Wiz]

It's not so bad. There is Samantha Fox and Doctor Who.

And apparently self-depricating humor, too.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

A frightening thought on so many levels.

The bright side is they'll get a sense of humour

edit *reads Cheezy's post*

 

[Atropos]

I think by its connections to the oil companies and global warming.the world will demand it to stop burning fossil feuls and go power crazy.

Please understand that I mean you no disrespect when I say that that is quite possibly the most stupid idea I have ever heard.

Absent a major change in the balance of power, if "the world" (whatever that means - Luxemburg? New Guinea? France?) demands the US to do something it doesn't want to do, the US will tell "the world" to go perform actions normally associated with marital status on itself.

Such a change might indeed occur, but in the first place, it will not occur because of global warming (because it's, you know, global warming, not US-specific warming), and therefore to attribute the fall of the US to global warming is to confuse cause with consequence; and, in the second place, because the countries likely to benefit from such a change are China and India, neither of which is likely to take kindly to cutting their own emissions.

There's also the salient fact that "the world" couldn't force Turkey to cut carbon emissions, let alone the US. It's called national sovereignty.

 

[QuoVadisNation]

The U.S. will definitely perform the age-old fallacy of over-extension (perpetually extreme military spending with crappy budget planning leading to overall bankruptcy and inflation). And will afterwards be severely weakened because of it. But I think that's a far cry from asserting that the U.S. would disband because of it. That's probably because there are just some events we can't accurately predict.

 

[CurtSibling]

The US union will crumble into separate states, along theological and ideological lines.

I find it funny that the Yanks like to tell themselves that the world will collapse too,
it is like a childish tantrum from a scolded teenager, unable to articulate his rage.

What most Yanks seem to ignore is that by the time their union is at terminal
point, the Chinese pink capitalist hegemony will be propping up the West...

Ironically, the Americans will implode and no-one but their tinpot dictatorship
clients will care...That is something most Yanks would not be able to bear.

Mediocrity is a far worse fate than a Wagnerian downfall.

...

 

[Perfection]

If the US falls to extra-terrestrial forces, we're probably all toast.

If they fall to external terrestrial forces, we (Canada) are probably toast as well.

If they fall to internal forces, we are still likely to be toast, but the rest of the West will no doubt be fine.

You're toast in any case

We have a contigent of nukes dedicated to blowing up Canada in the case America is about to be desroyed as one last hurrah.

 

[Rhye]

I think that China will take the lead in less than 30 years.
USA won't collapse but decline until becoming as influential as Canada, by the end of this Century.

 

[Xanikk999]

I think that China will take the lead in less than 30 years.
USA won't collapse but decline until becoming as influential as Canada, by the end of this Century.

China will end up like the U.S as now though i bet in 30 years. They will eventually have to increase wages as their standard of living increases for everyone.

 

[Mozza]

I can't see the USA physically breaking up unless we have a technological dark age, which is only likely if Islamic Fudamentalists get their way.

Throughout history nations have been as large as communications of the time have permitted. Initally tribes would rule just a few miles or less, the only time nations seriously broke up was with the fall of Rome (a technological dark age where we lose rather than gain technology over time). You then get nations of a size that can effectively be ran, such as Wessex, Aragon, or Brittany, as the Dark Age ends, nations start merging, thus you get bigger nations such as England, France, Bavaria, Spain. Time goes on and the likes of Britain, Germany, etc appear. The USA is proabably about as big as was practical with the technology of the time. If anything the USA will end, when there is a need for bigger countries, maybe the financial cometition of the EU will lead to a North American, or even American alliance, or maybe the next step will simply be Earthgov. If we contact an extra terrestrial race I think Earth will be one nation within a few years.

 

[innonimatu]

The collapse of empires usually involves big wars. The most recent big collapse of a world empire was that of the British Empire (the Soviet Union deserves a separate analisys). It took two world wars to topple it. In the end the british chose to cooperate with the new emerging empire.

It was true that the British Empire was showing signs of weakness since the start of the 20th century, but the two world wars were necessary to change the formal status quo. That’s the purpose of war, to change a formal distribution of power and influence in such a way that when peace is negotiated the terms are more favourable to the state causing the war. The UK didn’t “gave up” the empire to its former American colony, it lost it due to the costs of war. Empires always resist change for as long as they can, so change usually requires war.

The fall of the Soviet Union was an anomaly to this pattern just because if fell from the top (central government lost its hold on the country), not because it had been successfully challenged by competitors. Even so there were plenty of small regional wars within the space of the old empire.

The fall of the American Empire is unlikely to happen from the top. So, if it follows the pattern of the previous ones, challengers (including aspiring regional powers) will need to go to war if they wish to achieve the status of regional or world powers against the current empire. The fall of the American empire, when it finally happens, will not be a nice time to live in.
I too believe it will start in Asia, sometime within the next 20 years. And the US will likely win the first round, militarily, (it will probably cause it in the first place, choosing the time and place for the confrontation) but loose all allies in the process.

 

[Xanikk999]

I too believe it will start in Asia, sometime within the next 20 years. And the US will likely win the first round, militarily, (it will probably cause it in the first place, choosing the time and place for the confrontation) but loose all allies in the process.

Umm what? Do you mean the middle east or do you think we are going to attack china?

 

[innonimatu]

Yes, I do think the United States will not give up regional influence in Asia without a war. And rather than let China chose the time, they will push it into war, like they did with Japan once.
But not simply attack it, nothing so crass.

 

[Xanikk999]

the time, they will push it into war, like they did with Japan once.

Im sorry? Did you say pushed japan into war? They sneak attacked us during world war II, not the other way around.

And a trade embargo or refusing to trade with japan isnt really pushing them to war with us. If thats the case then i suppose north korea and cuba should declare war on us and it would be justified.

 

[innonimatu]

I'm not saying the japonese attack was justified - in fact the world would be better of without the Japanese Empire rampaging across Asia, so it’s the embargo that was justified.

What I meant was that the embargo would eventually push Japan into war. It was either that or giving up the imperial dreams, something the japonese military obviously would not do. I very much doubt Roosevelt wasn’t expecting Japan to react with war.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Im sorry? Did you say pushed japan into war? They sneak attacked us during world war II, not the other way around.

And a trade embargo or refusing to trade with japan isnt really pushing them to war with us. If thats the case then i suppose north korea and cuba should declare war on us and it would be justified.

When you've been Japan's main source of fuel for the past fifty years, and you suddenly cut off all trade to them, you pretty much screw their economy real quick.

Don't forget the Phillipine Islands, they point like a spear right at China, and Japan was going to have to take them if they ever hoped to dominate the Orient.

 

[SG-17]

if the US collapses militarially, infastructurally, or is destoyed. The chances are we wont go down alone, especially if i become president (or hopefully emporer) i will launch all of our nukes across the globe so all civilization fall. maybe if we have a base on the moon (which NASA plans for the 2020s) and/or a Mars base (2030s) some trace of all major civs wil survive, atleast all of those who are working on the ISS.

 

[sysyphus]

You're toast in any case

We have a contigent of nukes dedicated to blowing up Canada in the case America is about to be desroyed as one last hurrah.

We'll do ourselves in long before you ever get the chance.

 

[bhsup]

Seems appropriate to try for my best Kosh imitation..."How will it all end?"



"In fire."

 

[Ingvina Freyr]

Perhaps history books 500 years from now, will look at USAs presence in world politics during the second half of the 20th century, as nothing but a colonial death spasm of the British Empire.

 

[Mozza]

It was true that the British Empire was showing signs of weakness since the start of the 20th century, but the two world wars were necessary to change the formal status quo. That’s the purpose of war, to change a formal distribution of power and influence in such a way that when peace is negotiated the terms are more favourable to the state causing the war. The UK didn’t “gave up” the empire to its former American colony, it lost it due to the costs of war. Empires always resist change for as long as they can, so change usually requires war.

Interestingly the British Empire was at it's geographical largest in 1920. If you take the commonwealth to be the modernised Empire (ie an Empire of equal parts rather than Britain, and colonies), it is still the biggest empire in history, bar one (the British Empire at it's height). Britain has basically released it's hold on former colonies in order to persue closer relations with Europe.