The revolution would have happened while he was away, no different to as it did eexcpet that the Tsar would have survived a bit longer.
How would you change history?
- Thread starter Sharwood
- Start date
Flying Pig said:
Because what was left of the Eastern Empire was totally capable of coming back from being a virtual city-state and overthrowing the Ottoman Empire. I'm sure Dachs could suggest a POD which might save the Empire but it would be significantly earlier (and a certain battle starting with M does not cut the mustard apparently).
Oruc
Reactionary
Nope!
They probably could have got European help in fighting the war - but winning the big M would have been even better.
aronnax
Let your spirit be free
Well I'm a monarchist, and the blood murder of a royal Family is holy sin to me.
My next thing I would change is that the Allies won the Russian Civil War
So we lost WWII?
That must be a pleasant view to entertain if you enjoy the luxury of not living under an absolutist monarchical system.
The murder of the tsar and his family was certainly a brutal crime, but no more brutal or sinful than it would have been had it been perpetrated against non-royal people.
I'm with Plot on this. I suppose the fact that it is treason makes it worse, but not killing them because they are royals.
How is it treason when they weren't legally the royal family anymore? Nikolai abdicated a year prior.
Serutan
Eatibus Anythingibus
I wasn't thinking on the impact on fighting Napoleon. I was thinking of the long
term political effects of having the serfs freed almost 50 years earlier. For example,
what if this had led to a lot of unrest that forced the tsars into reforms during the 1870s or 1880s? What kind of position would Russia have been in in 1914 because of this?
"Treason" is a pretty meaningless word anyway. Just as the royalty of the victims is irrelevant, so too is their nationality. If it is wrong to murder a given person, it's wrong to do it whether they are your leader or someone else's. And if it's right to do so, it's right to do it whether they are your leader or someone else's. For example, von Stauffenberg may have been right to try to assassinate Hitler or he may have been wrong (surely he was right, but it doesn't matter) - but the rightness or wrongness of his act had nothing to do with the fact that he was German. Similarly, if it was wrong to murder the tsar (surely it was, but it doesn't matter), it was wrong for anyone to do it no matter what their nationality.
Maybe according to the ultimate judge, but I think the liquidation of the old order was more symbolic. The rough calloused hands of workers ripping apart the educated elite, their former masters. If you believe in the karma of nations it might seem fitting that a relatively well-meaning but ineffectual Tsar was replaced by Stalin.
I believe in loyalty so I would say that it is worse to murder your leader than a random person, since you have a position in which you respect them. It's wrong either way, but it is more wrong if it is also, say, treason or a robbery
Loyalty is a personal relation, though. It doesn't come as a result of mere nationality. If I have personally sworn an oath of loyalty to a certain leader, then yes, it does seem plausible to think that murdering that leader would be worse than murdering someone else, on the assumption that, other things being equal, breaking an oath is a bad thing. Or if I personally know a certain leader and have reason to be grateful to him, then again, murdering him would be worse than murdering someone else - just as it would be worse to stab a friend in the back than it would be to stab a stranger, on the assumption that one has a certain degree of mutual dependence and obligation with one's friends. But a leader with whom one has no personal association, and to whom one has sworn no oaths - I can't see how one could owe "loyalty" to such a leader or have any obligations to him or her beyond the obligations one has to every other person.
yeh - I see your point now.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
Oh, oh, here's one.
I teach Woody Allen how to speak Latin, and make him Emperor of Rome.
I teach Woody Allen how to speak Latin, and make him Emperor of Rome.
D0NIMATRIX
Full of drivel
*Assuming it doesn't affect my future existence in any negative way*
Show Hitler that his racist views were false.
I think he would have made a great leader otherwise.
Show Hitler that his racist views were false.
I think he would have made a great leader otherwise.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
Yes, because that whole invading veryone thing was so fantastic?*Assuming it doesn't affect my future existence in any negative way*
Show Hitler that his racist views were false.
I think he would have made a great leader otherwise.
flyingchicken
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2007
- Messages
- 3,783
Clearly racism is the root of all invasions. So, I myself would go back in time and exterminate all the ancestors of the untermenschen to eliminate racism and hence eliminate invasions.
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