How would you change history?

Let us also note that the European bit of Russia is where most of the population is. And that it is ridiculously huge.

3,960,000 km²

vs

close to 2.7 million km² for Rwanda, DRC and Uganda combined.

Based on area, I would argue the barbarism to murders ratio is pretty similar.
 
This is a silly argument in the first place, seeing as how unless you're the communist dictator of Cambodia, you don't set specific goals of how many people are going to die in a war.

Also, seeing as how the countries had comparatively different amounts of manpower, resources, time frames, technology, etc.
 
LightSpectra said:
This is a silly argument in the first place, seeing as how unless you're the communist dictator of Cambodia, you don't set specific goals of how many people are going to die in a war.

You have some small influence over who dies. Civilians. Prisoners of War. Political Enemies. Etc.

LightSpectra said:
Also, seeing as how the countries had comparatively different amounts of manpower, resources, time frames, technology, etc.

Of course. But I didn't make the comparison in the first place.
 
I would kill Karl Marx. Communism caused an awful amount of suffering in the world and is a direct ancestor of Socialism, Liberalism, Fascism and many over evil "'isms".
 
I would kill Karl Marx. Communism caused an awful amount of suffering in the world and is a direct ancestor of Socialism, Liberalism, Fascism and many over evil "'isms".

I was with you until the second half of your post. Classical liberalism as we know it had existed since the 17th century (and I don't know why you think it's evil), and socialism since the late 18th. I couldn't tell you in great detail what effect Marxism had on fascism, but I would think that fascism is just a technological evolution of absolutism.
 
I dunno, I think it would be better to take out Charles Darwin. Without him, evolution never would have existed!
 
I would kill Karl Marx. Communism caused an awful amount of suffering in the world and is a direct ancestor of Socialism, Liberalism, Fascism and many over evil "'isms".

I really don't want to derail this thread, but I will :mischief:

Liberalism isn't from communism. Liberalism is from...well...liberalism. Which is from Adam Smith ;)

Fascism isn't from communism, in fact it's against communism. The Nazis killed communists and Mussolini was kicked out of the Socialist Party.

Communism is the ideal which is to be brought about by socialism. One didn't "come from" another.
 
To answer on the initial question: I guess I would try to influence the 'peace' treaties after WWI, at least Trianon. Fair treaties = no WW2 and no modern day problems of the hungarian minorities in the countries around Hungary.
 
WWI was an inevitably of the era. If it hadn't begun in 1914, then it just would've happened later, after more proxy wars and at the cost of an even larger generation. If anything, it would've been better for humanity had Franz Ferdinand been assassinated a decade earlier.
 
WWI was an inevitably of the era. If it hadn't begun in 1914, then it just would've happened later, after more proxy wars and at the cost of an even larger generation. If anything, it would've been better for humanity had Franz Ferdinand been assassinated a decade earlier.
Why do you think it was inevitable?
 
Why do you think it was inevitable?

French revanchism, Britain's perceived challenge of her naval supremacy, the instability of the Balkans combined with Russo-Slavic nationalism, and the alliances that highlighted all of the above was a formula for catastrophe. The only scenario in which the Great War could be averted is if miraculously, nothing lights the powder keg long enough for the militaristic rivalries to slowly fade away; and honestly, what are the chances of that? (Or, alternatively, the Great Powers voluntarily suspend their alliances; but that's even less likely.)
 
French revanchism, Britain's perceived challenge of her naval supremacy, the instability of the Balkans combined with Russo-Slavic nationalism, and the alliances that highlighted all of the above was a formula for catastrophe. The only scenario in which the Great War could be averted is if miraculously, nothing lights the powder keg long enough for the militaristic rivalries to slowly fade away; and honestly, what are the chances of that? (Or, alternatively, the Great Powers voluntarily suspend their alliances; but that's even less likely.)
Alliance systems in and of themselves don't start war. The Anglo-German naval race was cooling down, not getting worse, at the time of the war, as the German government slowly came to the realization that competition along this line was futile. The Balkans were unstable because they had fought two major, region-changing wars immediately prior - after a short time they would settle down again. (And of course, periods of instability do not necessarily lead to Great Power wars - if the Powers cooperate in resolving the instability, they can actually lead to warmer relations in some cases. See the period after the Congress of Vienna, for instance.) And French revanchism is just as nebulous as any other nationalistic impulse - certainly not shared by all, and discarded by those who do profess themselves nationalists when it becomes profitable to do so.

Did you, ah, not read what I wrote about the First World War in Winner's thread? It was one of the most perfect sets of conditions for starting a war possible, the absolute low point, because things were starting to get better. Germany and Austria-Hungary fought because they felt backed into a corner, but that corner was about to open up as it was, because no alliance persists forever (and even the Anglo-Russian "understanding" was becoming uncomfortable for both parties). German disputes with the "encircling powers" were starting to be resolved - the Baghdad Railway problem was resolved as the July Crisis was heating up, for instance.

Also you should know by now that your silly determinism has no place in an alternate history thread. :p
 
Alliance systems in and of themselves don't start war. The Anglo-German naval race was cooling down, not getting worse, at the time of the war, as the German government slowly came to the realization that competition along this line was futile. The Balkans were unstable because they had fought two major, region-changing wars immediately prior - after a short time they would settle down again. (And of course, periods of instability do not necessarily lead to Great Power wars - if the Powers cooperate in resolving the instability, they can actually lead to warmer relations in some cases. See the period after the Congress of Vienna, for instance.) And French revanchism is just as nebulous as any other nationalistic impulse - certainly not shared by all, and discarded by those who do profess themselves nationalists when it becomes profitable to do so.

As I understand it, the naval race wasn't cooling down, it had only reached a temporary speed bump because the chancellor had mistakenly believed that Britain had reached a peak and wouldn't spend more. The Balkans were unstable, also, because three declining empires were all fighting to maintain/gain control over them, in addition to countries like Serbia who wanted their own independence -- at what point would they settle down, would you say? Finally, the French revanchism had almost been official policy of the republic. It was something that would eventually die out, as soon as the generation that had experienced the Franco-Prussian War had passed.

Did you, ah, not read what I wrote about the First World War in Winner's thread? It was one of the most perfect sets of conditions for starting a war possible, the absolute low point, because things were starting to get better.

Things are getting better all the time. The question is, at what point would the desire for war have faded away, and what were the chances of another July Crisis before then?
 
I really don't want to derail this thread, but I will :mischief:

Liberalism isn't from communism. Liberalism is from...well...liberalism. Which is from Adam Smith ;)

Fascism isn't from communism, in fact it's against communism. The Nazis killed communists and Mussolini was kicked out of the Socialist Party.

Communism is the ideal which is to be brought about by socialism. One didn't "come from" another.

Classic Liberalism is Laissez-Faire economics. Modern liberalism is the democratic party, destroy married families, abortion on demand, mass immigration, multiculturalism. Liberalism used to be about freedom for the individual against the authoritarian conservatives, now it is social democracy.

Mussolini was a socialist but than though his Italian worldview it morphed into Fascism. Fascism is more socialist economically than people are led to believe. Read the BNP manifesto it is 19th century marx! The idea of them being the opposite is wrong imo.

:goodjob:
 
As I understand it, the naval race wasn't cooling down, it had only reached a temporary speed bump because the chancellor had mistakenly believed that Britain had reached a peak and wouldn't spend more. The Balkans were unstable, also, because three declining empires were all fighting to maintain/gain control over them, in addition to countries like Serbia who wanted their own independence -- at what point would they settle down, would you say? Finally, the French revanchism had almost been official policy of the republic. It was something that would eventually die out, as soon as the generation that had experienced the Franco-Prussian War had passed.
Well, considering that von Tirpitz's funds were starting to be cut off and that the 1912 bill had decreased naval spending, and that von Tirpitz's cunning strategy of creating a fleet that wasn't being used much outside of war and wouldn't be of use in a war in order to increase his own personal power and autonomy was becoming increasingly apparent to the Reichstag deputies, I think the slowdown would have continued. The decline of all three states - the Ottoman, Russian, and Austro-Hungarian - sounds like a retroactive statement to me. All states were increasing in power before 1914, and for the Ottomans in particular, now that the troublesome minorities in the Balkans had largely been jettisoned, a slightly leaner, more powerful state was being constructed. Ottoman performance in the war, while never to be overstated by those such as the many, many admirers of Mustafa Kemal, wasn't bad at all for an allegedly dying empire... Anyway, it's all too easy to read "decline" into the history of a state prior to its collapse, but it is ultimately a teleological path that has no place in history; some states, believe it or not, do collapse through exogenous shock with no fatal cleavages on the inside, such as the Visigothic state, the Tsarist empire, the Achaemenid empire, and the Habsburg one. For these allegedly declining empires to restore some form of stability to the peninsula, a cooperative agreement on the whole thing was needed, such as the Austro-Russian agreement of 1897, which had proved so successful in putting the Balkans on ice for a decade. There's no reason that another cooperative agreement along those lines would be impossible in the decade after. "Official policy of the republic" did not prevent the Far Eastern Triplice from forming even after von Bismarck was out of office, and certainly did not prevent the Ferry administrations from acting in concert with Germany during von Bismarck's tenure.
LightSpectra said:
Things are getting better all the time. The question is, at what point would the desire for war have faded away, and what were the chances of another July Crisis before then?
So it wasn't inevitable? :p
 
True story: I had a dream the other night, that I gained some ill-defined superpowers and went back in time to 1865. I saved Lincoln and helped him do civil rights and Reconstruction right, often by threatening people.
 
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