HR Tech Tree Plausibility

[Leoreth]

Some buttons I found in other mods.

Could you please add a link to the spreadsheet in the OP? That makes it a lot easier to find.

Spoiler :

Thanks. I edited the OP.

I just used the HR art for the Ceremony tenet (meh) and Purity tenet (quite nice actually) for Ceremony and Sanitation right now.

In your image, top left are Ritual/Worship and Priesthood already, although I'm up for replacing the Worship button. For Horticulture I'm looking more for landscape gardening type stuff because it looks better, but I'll create a button for that.

Bottom left has some nice ones, including the current art for Civil Liberties, Labour Unions and Statecraft (previously Insurance), but some of those are really good and could end up replacing one of them. None of them look comtemporaneous for Social Sciences though.

The Measurement buttons both look amazing. Could even see the lower one for Replaceable Parts. By the way, I'm considering renaming Machine Tools to Mechanisation ...

I like the idea of representing Generalship abstractly but in general (haha) something that actually looks like a military leader of the era would fit better aesthetically.

Can you tell me where you got them from?

 

[merijn_v1]

Can you tell me where you got them from?

All from Realism Invictus, except sanitation. That one comes from Caveman2Cosmos.

I expected some of the ones I suggested are already used for some other techs, but I didn't know which ones.

 

[Leoreth]

Thanks, I already have that on my local machine.

 

[Leoreth]

Oh, I completely forgot what a treasure trove of art RI is. I suddenly feel empowered for everything else I have planned.

Edit: ended up using the Heroic Epic button for Generalship, created my own for Horticulture and borrowed art from RI for Measurement, Social Sciences, Machine Tools and Nobility. Now everything has a button, although I'd like to replace some of them later on.

 

[merijn_v1]

Yeah. RI is one of my main mods to collect art. Walter Hawkwood also converted some buildings from other games to be used in Civ. Some of them look awesome. Not all of them are in RI though.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, building art is where I might also borrow a lot. As an aside, I also like their Orthodox and Christian buildings more than what DoC currently uses.

 

[Temujin8k]

Hello fellow DoC patrons! I took some leisure time to update the Python aspect of the mod based on the most recent commit Leoreth made to his hrtechs branch, and I've already sent him a pull request on GitHub. The code has already been adapted to the latest tech tree update, but the civ spawn techs and the substitute techs for event triggers are only based on my intuition and estimates based on the game timeline and on the equivalence to the original tech tree.

I have already tried out a short game for each scenario and I must say teching is still very slow, but the game loads without errors and apart from the slow tech pacing everything else is great. However, some minor Python exceptions may come along the way. I also encourage you guys to check it out on the hrtechs-develop branch of my fork here! I'm so excited for v1.15 and our help will surely speed up its completion. Thank you!

 

[Leoreth]

Is there a word that serves as an umbrella for both state surveillance and state propaganda, or maybe even a wider manipulation of the masses from a business point of view? I feel Surveillance is too much of a narrow concept but I don't think there's space for another tech to capture the rest of it, and the developments seem to be related. If there is an economic tie in (we already had Marketing/Advertising at some point) that's a bonus. Extra challenge: don't use Fascism and Totalitarianism

 

[citis]

Is there a word that serves as an umbrella for both state surveillance and state propaganda, or maybe even a wider manipulation of the masses from a business point of view? I feel Surveillance is too much of a narrow concept but I don't think there's space for another tech to capture the rest of it, and the developments seem to be related. If there is an economic tie in (we already had Marketing/Advertising at some point) that's a bonus. Extra challenge: don't use Fascism and Totalitarianism

A state that uses propagand and surveillance tries to control its populance, thus it is by defenition totalitarian.

On this tech however I propose a different approach. Name the tech cryptomachine. Cryptomachine is a technological advantage, a tech in the traditional meaning of the word, that fits perfectly the social aspects you want to describe: surveillance, totalitarianism and so on. Moreover, it is a requirement of microprocessor/computer.

 

[Leoreth]

A state that uses propagand and surveillance tries to control its populance, thus it is by defenition totalitarian.

I know, but I only want to use the word if I have to (because of implications on civics).

 

[trevor]

Social Control?

 

[Malchar]

From this computer, I can't view the work-in-progress spreadsheet, so forgive me if this is already used elsewhere. You could rename surveillance to intelligence agency, or national security, or some other combination of words from these categories:

Pick one:
central
national
state
secret
military

Then add one of these:
defense
security
intelligence

(Optional third word):
agency
bureau
service
organization
committee

 

[Force44]

The word you are looking for is Orwellian. In the book 1984 (a good read!) he (George Orwell) describes pretty much the epitome of the society you refer to.

(it is an adverb though)

edit: Orwellian machinations seems like fine phrasing for a subject.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

"Big Brotherism"?

 

[Force44]

Well pretty much before John de Mol jr. destroyed that term.

 

[Soviet elf]

Could even see the lower one for Replaceable Parts. By the way, I'm considering renaming Machine Tools to Mechanisation ...

Actually machine tools and replaceable parts should be one tech (machine tools), and mechanization should be a tech before them.
Mechanization happened in UK in 1760-1800, it radically increased productivity of textile production. Spinning jenny, spinning mule, power loom, cotton gin etc. In 1800 most these machines were powered by watermills. Early Industrial revolution in Britain = textile mechanization powered by watermills + use of coke for iron production.
The concept and proposals of replaceable parts existed before machine tools, but making RPs was impractical for manual craftsmen. People started use RPs only after introduction of machine tools. Machine tools made RPs.
Also, btw, machine tools should be pre-req for practical steam engines (used in ironclads, railroads etc) - early steam engines made without machine tools (like Newcomen engine) were very inefficient (~0.5%) and practical only for pumping water out of coal mines, production of steam engine for ship or rail locomotive or workshop required machine tools.

 

[Ani Taneen]

Is there a word that serves as an umbrella for both state surveillance and state propaganda, or maybe even a wider manipulation of the masses from a business point of view? I feel Surveillance is too much of a narrow concept but I don't think there's space for another tech to capture the rest of it, and the developments seem to be related. If there is an economic tie in (we already had Marketing/Advertising at some point) that's a bonus. Extra challenge: don't use Fascism and Totalitarianism

Outside of "propaganda", maybe Perception Management

 

[srpt]

I can't help thinking there must be a still better word, but I keep coming back to Edward Bernays and the coining of "Public Relations" when I think about this, especially when you say "no fascism or totalitarianism".

 

[Leoreth]

There's a different concept in the doc now (third iteration), which mainly focuses on the last industrial and first modern columns:
- Assembly Line moved back for historical accuracy
- decided to add a Railroad tech after all because the improvement should require Metallurgy too
- Engine as an earlier tech that implicitly contains internal combustion engine as well
- Refining / Plastics moved further to replace Explosives
- after more reading, I think non-electric Refrigeration makes more sense in the second industrial row, leading to Microbiology (modern Medicine and Epidemiology)
- Consumerism (renamed Mass Market) and Civil Rights moved one column back, instead Macroeconomics and Social Services go to the modern era
- new Psychology tech, I think this can refer to influencing the population in a general sense, including Propaganda and Advertising, and also include Surveillance. The links make sense at least in my opinion
- replaced Pharmaceuticals with Activism because it at least connects the techs and fits the period. Not sure what to put there still.

 

[AtlantaMarty]

Please rename Thermodynamics back to Steam Power. It is much more evocative of the era, which after all, was called the Age of Steam. Other than that, this new tech tree looks pretty good to me! More content is always a good thing, and it seems like this has more techs than the current tree.