I Hate Warmongers!

[Bostock]

2. The first build order is a worker. If that worker dies you must build another worker immediately.

If that worker dies before you have a second worker (implied by "another worker" above) then either

1) it's died in the age of animals and you kick yourself for having "just this once, it won't hurt" sent a worker outside of your cultural borders since "surely i can build a road for three turns without a panther springing up." (But really, in that era there is almost always enough to do within your borders anyway without going out of them.)

(Been there, done that, worn the t-shirt on this one, by the way.)

or

2) You've entered the age of barbs without building a second worker (which is much too late, unless you're on a high level where they come early).

Nice guidelines, by the way!

 

[jm_dracolich]

If you are talking about Noble or Prince and Epic speed I could shadow your game.

I play on Noble with Epic speed.

 

[michmbk]

I play on Noble with Epic speed.

Post a 4000 BC save and I'm sure a number of people would shadow your game - I find it's extremely helpful to compare games with the strategies others employ.

 

[Skallagrimson]

It has helped me improve by giving myself some simple rules to follow when I start a game. I had a less extreme version of his troubles when I first started because I didn't quite understand some of the down-sides to the different choices.


I think the biggest help was playing a few games with 4 rules.
1. No city may have more than six buildings (not counting the Academy, Military Academy or Wonders). This rule is removed after any civilization techs Liberalism.
2. The first build order is a worker. If that worker dies you must build another worker immediately.
3. Wealth and Research can only be built by 1 city at a time.
4. You must maintain 1 military unit for every city (not necessarily IN every city) and 10 military units for every World Wonder.


This set of rules helped me understand how to focus. I learned how to build only the most necessary things for a particular goal and how to use what I build.

I break all of those rules, hehe.

My commerce cities pretty much building-whore all through the game. Unit pumps stay pretty lean until Assembly Line, and then they fire up quite a few production-related buildings, and in late-game warfare they even crank out commerce buildings when unit production needs to cool down.

When I'm not Creative my first build is "something with culture" (monument or library), which whips as soon as it's able. I follow settlers with 2 workers, one to road out to the city and one to improve its tiles right away. My top-food early city as soon as it reaches happy cap stays in a settler/worker/worker cycle. My top-hammer early city stays in a unit/unit/unit forever cycle. All others work on their culture, courthouses, all the basics, and then "attempt" wonders (for the gold when they miss the race), which funds the empire while REXing.

When I'm creative I skip monuments and go straight for courthouses and libraries. Early game most commerce cities are feeding a spy and two scientists, and I jump for joy now when I get a great spy (used to be disappointed until I started to understand the EE better). Unit pumps are feeding plains hill mines (or iron, etc.)

Wealth and research I almost never build, except in late game when I'm completely at a loss for what else to do with a city.

1 military unit per city? BAH... try about 5 at least!

 

[Bostock]

All others work on their culture, courthouses, all the basics, and then "attempt" wonders (for the gold when they miss the race) [...]

Wealth and research I almost never build

Oh, but you do, you do...

 

[JonathanStrange]

Warmongering AIs are (usually) the least of my worries when my unit pumping is up to speed.

It's the runaway-techers on other land masses (with a religion love fest) that drive me nuts.

I'm reminded of that old "Deep Thoughts" quote by Jack Handy:

"I can imagine a world with no armies, with no war, no hatred and no violence. And I can imagine attacking that world, because they wouldn't be expecting it at all."

Warmongering AIs looked for me in my peaceful days and taught me an unexpected lesson I didn't forget.

 

[PreLynMax]

Warmonger AIs gives me hell as its difficult, no, impossible to keep up in tech AND raise an army enough to defend myself.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Warmonger AIs gives me hell as its difficult, no, impossible to keep up in tech AND raise an army enough to defend myself.

I suggest you come up with an alternative argument, rather than repeating a flagrantly false statement over and over whilst ignoring the entire forum proving you wrong. Did you know posters started an entire new game JUST to show you that you can not only keep up in tech, cities, and power, but BLOW THE AI OUT IN ALL THREE?

I guess not. Why do you even post here, though, if you're going to ignore the entire community?

 

[Zack]

I guess not. Why do you even post here, though, if you're going to ignore the entire community?

Because he needs somewhere to whine and complain.

 

[helemaalnicks]

At least you get pounded by Alex. I keep getting axerushed (ya, that's right!) in 700BC by the least likely. Last game, it was wang kon, game before that, it was mao and 2 others (ya, 3 of my brothers in faith decided 500BC was a good moment for me to die, and all 3 put a stack in my borders). I finally reached a point where barbs are never a problem for me anymore on emperor, and now people keep axerushing me for no apparent reason. Even if we share religion, they don't care, they just wanna rush me.

I think futurehermits advice works well till monarch, but on emperor, it's a no go. I AM A BUILDER, LET ME BUILD. I never neglect military, I'm always building axes, axes and more axes, then macemen, then muskets, etc. But in 700BC, I don't have enough military to stop a stack of 6 axes in the outer region of my civ, from a peacefull leader. I have no clue what I'm doing wrong, apart from being a builder, I'm starting to think that rexing/building doesn't work on emperor. All those walkthroughs, like aelf's, and Sisutil, have an axerush in 'em. Only like 5% of their games don't include an axerush.

Don't get me wrong, I can launch a good axerush, but even if I succeed in taking a couple of cities, I usually give up because I think it's lame. I really know what you mean, and it's a bug. I've read a gamereport by one of the testers for civ4, and it proved that AI was build in such a way, that it will ALWAYS try and take out the human player. He put himself on a continent with just a lot of barbs, to keep him busy, and gave Qin su huang and Ghandi (who should hate eachothers' guts) a big piece of great land. Ghandi and Qin where close to eachother, human was only reachable through astronomy. The 2 loved eachother, and ghandi (of all people) showed up with 20 galleons in 1000 AD. Game over, and this proved that AI isn't build in such a way that it really works on FFA games with multiple AI's and a human.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Last game, it was wang kon, game before that, it was mao and 2 others

Wang is no safe bet at cautious. Mao? One of the game's TOP BACKSTABBERS. You consider that unlikely? They probably all bribed to war on you.

people keep axerushing me for no apparent reason.

Shared border, cautious or lower, and a warmonger-type AI is plenty of reason.

I'm starting to think that rexing/building doesn't work on emperor.

It does. I myself has posted probably close to 20 games on emperor on this site, and at least half of those didn't involve an axe rush. And, that's just me.

I usually give up because I think it's lame.

If it's your optimal strategy, why not do it? Exactly what is lame about playing to win? Getting dogpiled to death by 4 AIs isn't exactly super duper.

I've read a gamereport by one of the testers for civ4, and it proved that AI was build in such a way, that it will ALWAYS try and take out the human player. He put himself on a continent with just a lot of barbs, to keep him busy, and gave Qin su huang and Ghandi (who should hate eachothers' guts) a big piece of great land. Ghandi and Qin where close to eachother, human was only reachable through astronomy. The 2 loved eachother, and ghandi (of all people) showed up with 20 galleons in 1000 AD. Game over, and this proved that AI isn't build in such a way that it really works on FFA games with multiple AI's and a human.

Garbage. Complete and utter garbage. I seriously hope people who don't know better aren't baited into believing this. Aside from a hidden -1 or so (but not with all AIs) at higher levels, there is no "attack the human first" bias. I'd be interested to see if you could find code that suggests otherwise. Probably, those two benefited from shared religion and favorable spawn locations such that they ducked war. Qin doesn't exactly have a peace weight of 0, either.

 

[Dan Quale]

Seems like an Ai will always Dow on me, so I just build a massive millitary and even if i want to play peacefully I will still have to wipe some moron out. Half the time I start next to shaka for some reason so I generally expect a 1000 Bc or Earlier stack coming at me. In the 13th century though you better have something stronger than axemen or your in for a world of pain.

 

[helemaalnicks]

mmh, tx. You got a thread with a list of your games? I'd be interested, especially in the builder part. I think going back to standard size will solve most of my troubles anyway for now, so that's what I'll do.

 

[Bandobras Took]

He gave a religion monger and wonderbuilder their own continent and was surprised by a lovefest?

 

[JonathanStrange]

Seems like an Ai will always Dow on me, so I just build a massive millitary and even if i want to play peacefully I will still have to wipe some moron out. Half the time I start next to shaka for some reason so I generally expect a 1000 Bc or Earlier stack coming at me. In the 13th century though you better have something stronger than axemen or your in for a world of pain.

Agreed. It's pretty standard and well-known that, in general, the AI with declare war on a civ it's calculated as being weaker despite having previous good relations with that civ.

So the real world axiom "he who wants peace, should prepare for war" really applies in civ - don't be weak.

Virtually everytime I've found Shaka (or he's found me) near my start, I immediately start ramp up my military because he will attack sooner rather than later. I like the guy but his reputation precedes him.

 

[PreLynMax]

At least you get pounded by Alex. I keep getting axerushed (ya, that's right!) in 700BC by the least likely. Last game, it was wang kon, game before that, it was mao and 2 others (ya, 3 of my brothers in faith decided 500BC was a good moment for me to die, and all 3 put a stack in my borders). I finally reached a point where barbs are never a problem for me anymore on emperor, and now people keep axerushing me for no apparent reason. Even if we share religion, they don't care, they just wanna rush me.

I think futurehermits advice works well till monarch, but on emperor, it's a no go. I AM A BUILDER, LET ME BUILD. I never neglect military, I'm always building axes, axes and more axes, then macemen, then muskets, etc. But in 700BC, I don't have enough military to stop a stack of 6 axes in the outer region of my civ, from a peacefull leader. I have no clue what I'm doing wrong, apart from being a builder, I'm starting to think that rexing/building doesn't work on emperor. All those walkthroughs, like aelf's, and Sisutil, have an axerush in 'em. Only like 5% of their games don't include an axerush.

Don't get me wrong, I can launch a good axerush, but even if I succeed in taking a couple of cities, I usually give up because I think it's lame. I really know what you mean, and it's a bug. I've read a gamereport by one of the testers for civ4, and it proved that AI was build in such a way, that it will ALWAYS try and take out the human player. He put himself on a continent with just a lot of barbs, to keep him busy, and gave Qin su huang and Ghandi (who should hate eachothers' guts) a big piece of great land. Ghandi and Qin where close to eachother, human was only reachable through astronomy. The 2 loved eachother, and ghandi (of all people) showed up with 20 galleons in 1000 AD. Game over, and this proved that AI isn't build in such a way that it really works on FFA games with multiple AI's and a human.

Really? I didn't know that. That would explain a lot. A whole lot.
And this is why both times (this making the second time I played this map) everytime I ask Pacal to DOW Alex, he's ALWAYS friendly with him. It's so aggravating. But your explination explains a lot.

Edit: I did go warmonging with Ghangis Khan one game, but it was on Settler, so after conquering most of the continent, I got bored. There is a big jump of difficulty between the Warlord and Settler difficulty that I just cannot grasp. When I gather an army, my ecomony suffers, and I ended up falling too far behind in tech to keep up, and eventually DOWed on for having an obsolete military. When I start to focus on commerce and science, I get DOWed on for not having enough military. Either way, you lose.

I am preparing a walkthrough that further proves my wrath, but I still need time.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

Uh, and now you are ignoring the useful info AGAIN, just to keep whining.

On Noble you can prevent war with anyone just with power. You can out-build and out-tech them at the same time. From Prince the AIs start getting increasing bonuses to production and commerce. From Monarch and above there is simply no way to prevent war with power. That's a fact. You can't out-produce people like Alex or other warmongers. You need to understand the basics of diplo management to survive.

Anyway, in the other thread (that incan game) you completely ignored the help offered by a couple people. They actually played your save and posted a detailed write-up to show you how to fix it. And you ignored them, just to start this new non-sense. Seriously, if you think the game is cheating, just play something else. It's pretty obvious that you are not enjoying the game if you feel the need to "prepare a walkthrough that further proves my wrath".

 

[Harv]

I have a suggestion: Try an Earth scenario. You can choose one civ you like and know what your land is always like and who your opponents are and where they live. It removes the some of the eXploration element from the game and allows you to focus on the other X's. This will simplify your game greatly.

Another thing you might want to try is a smaller map size - or duel and learn to take it to your opponent. (This is a guess that I have never tried myself.)

Personally, I cannot tell you what level I play because I just do not have the attention span to finish a game. I will tell you that I get a lot further on Earth than on a Random map.

My next suggestion: Learn how to play Rome on either of the Earth scenarios. This will teach you how to win!

 

[PieceOfMind]

PreLynMax you should watch TMIT's youtube video - Let's Play Civilization IV. Watch how he fights battles etc. The game he played was on Monarch and he had pretty much no issues even starting next to warmongers.

I suspect there are some serious weaknesses in your play if you're noticing big difficulty problems between Settler and Warlord. Most people would accidentally win at Settler difficulty- you can do pretty much whatever you please and win - the AI is that far crippled in that difficulty.

How do you use siege units? Do you know how to use them for collateral damage at the beginning of a city assault, and to use them on enemy stacks before you use your more valuable units?

I really do recommend you take some advice from many of the very experienced posters here. It seems to me you're just reading their posts and ignoring them, only responding to posts from people who have similar views to you. You may not want to argue but it frustrates a lot of the people here who are genuinely trying to help you.

As with many things in life, true skill comes with practise. Most civfanatics members probably have upwards of hundreds of hours experience with the game (some would go into thousands of hours).

 

[cabert]

I am preparing a walkthrough that further proves my wrath, but I still need time.

there is already a game on noble designed to show you it's possible, and how.
why don't you just go check this thread and try the same game?
there are 2 versions of the save (one is using the BtS Unaltered Gameplay mod 3.6 also known as BUG mod, which doesn't change the gameplay but enhances the interface, the other is a genuine BtS save of the same game)

PreLynMax you should watch TMIT's youtube video - Let's Play Civilization IV. Watch how he fights battles etc. The game he played was on Monarch and he had pretty much no issues even starting next to warmongers.

It sure would show him a bit.
Nothing beats playing the same game, though.

I suspect there are some serious weaknesses in your play if you're noticing big difficulty problems between Settler and Warlord. Most people would accidentally win at Settler difficulty- you can do pretty much whatever you please and win - the AI is that far crippled in that difficulty.

my 10 years old daughter wins on settler, and she basically knows nothing of the game, not even the victory conditions

How do you use siege units? Do you know how to use them for collateral damage at the beginning of a city assault, and to use them on enemy stacks before you use your more valuable units?

that's one aspect.
working improved tiles and giving the workers correct orders (or at least automatic them) is certainly the biggest aspect though

I really do recommend you take some advice from many of the very experienced posters here. It seems to me you're just reading their posts and ignoring them, only responding to posts from people who have similar views to you. You may not want to argue but it frustrates a lot of the people here who are genuinely trying to help you.

so true
and he is saying this with kind words.
Not listening to advice when you keep complaining is considered rude by quite a few.

As with many things in life, true skill comes with practise. Most civfanatics members probably have upwards of hundreds of hours experience with the game (some would go into thousands of hours).

well, I'm by far not the best player around, but I have more than 1000 hours of game behind me for sure.
I can't even imagine how many hours the top people out there may have.